Ok, political thought..only read if interested

[aandwrobert]

Thats were I make my point the other countries GOVERNMENT asked for the base not the people and all it takes in one nationalist ******to blow up a building
why should we spead democracy we almost always fail and half time the country we try to save goes into a civil war what would you do if the real super power china desided they were going to spead communism and used that excuse to invade the US, half of Africa, southeast asia, middle east, asia minor.....
2ed of we didnt really try to do anything after world war II but have germany pay for the war give all of the middle east to britian and oh dangf I forgot break up the ottomans who had keep peace in the middle east and north africa for how many centuries? was it 6 or 7 I forgot
israel is a state that dosnt belong there They just took land from the arabs and gave in away and you wonder why the arabs are mad...
now america is a imperialist state just not as much as most countrys when we won the spainish american war we gained cuba and the phillipines and when the phillipines wanted indepentace we went over there and crushed them
boxer rebellion we went over there and helped imperialist swine keep control of china

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
Thats were I make my point the other countries GOVERNMENT asked for the base not the people and all it takes in one nationalist

[hr]
to blow up a building
why should we spead democracy we almost always fail and half time the country we try to save goes into a civil war what would you do if the real super power china desided they were going to spead communism and used that excuse to invade the US, half of Africa, southeast asia, middle east, asia minor.....
2ed of we didnt really try to do anything after world war II but have germany pay for the war give all of the middle east to britian and oh dangf I forgot break up the ottomans who had keep peace in the middle east and north africa for how many centuries? was it 6 or 7 I forgot
israel is a state that dosnt belong there They just took land from the arabs and gave in away and you wonder why the arabs are mad...
now america is a imperialist state just not as much as most countrys when we won the spainish american war we gained cuba and the phillipines and when the phillipines wanted indepentace we went over there and crushed them
boxer rebellion we went over there and helped imperialist swine keep control of china
Once again you've spotted off a series of inaccurate statements without addressing your previously statements which have been challenged and shown to be in error.
These kind of statements may make you cool looking at the lunch room table at school, but around here with educated people you're making yourself look foolish.
I'll address your comments at length when I return.
Ps watch the language

 

[aandwrobert]

got to go figure what I'm talking about I see that will take longer than you think....

 

[1journeyman]

LOL, haven't left yet...
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
Thats were I make my point the other countries GOVERNMENT asked for the base not the people and all it takes in one nationalist ******to blow up a building
why should we spead democracy we almost always fail and half time the country we try to save goes into a civil war what would you do if the real super power china desided they were going to spead communism and used that excuse to invade the US, half of Africa, southeast asia, middle east, asia minor.....
2ed of we didnt really try to do anything after world war II but have germany pay for the war give all of the middle east to britian and oh dangf I forgot break up the ottomans who had keep peace in the middle east and north africa for how many centuries? was it 6 or 7 I forgot
israel is a state that dosnt belong there They just took land from the arabs and gave in away and you wonder why the arabs are mad...
now america is a imperialist state just not as much as most countrys when we won the spainish american war we gained cuba and the phillipines and when the phillipines wanted indepentace we went over there and crushed them
boxer rebellion we went over there and helped imperialist swine keep control of china
Name 1 country where the majority of the people want us to leave. Did you know countries COMPETE for our bases because of the money and jobs associated in countries with US bases?
We almost always fail at spreading Democracy... Good Lord what are they teaching you in History class? Take a look at a map of the world. I want you to start just west of Alaska... see that giant land mass known as Russia? Democratic due to us (although granted a weak form... it's better than communism). Continue west. See Ukraine? Democratic. See all of those former Soviet occupied satellite countries Like Estonia, Latvia, etc.? Democratic. Poland, Germany, Romania, Macedonia, Slovakia, etc. All Democratic. Move west to the Atlantic across Europe. ALL DEMOCRATIC in some form or another as a direct result to us. You referred to the Ottoman Empire. Not Democratic. See Turkey? Democratic because we defeated the Ottomans. Now, let's look south of the USA. Mexico? Democratic. Central America? You guessed it...
So where have we failed? Sure, there are a few holdouts, but hte VAST MAJORITY OF THE WORLD is Democraitc because the USA stepped up to the plate. An Imperialist would occupy those countries. We built them up and freed them.... see the difference?
Cuba? Phillipines? Last time I checked they were both their own governing countries.
The Jewish people don't belong in Israel? Hmm... could have sworn they were there before the Ottomans...
Normally I wouldn't argue with a 13 year old but your lack of world history frightens me. You need to be challenged so you'll look some of this stuff up for yourself and actually learn a bit of the truth.

 

[aandwrobert]

I didnt say we still held them but we have in the past
israel lets see what country was there in 1957 what right did they have to just move back we all(not competely true but true for the most part) used to have family in england germany or other european countries what would happen if we just desided to move back and in the same time took over that country the world would murder us.
Russia so a country of backstabing right wingers having a bunch of civil wars is better than a bunch of dumb communist striving toward a common goal?
fomer yugoslovia would have broken up any ways but how we did it was giving serbia all the weapons and you know how that turned out.
1 country lets see iraq sombailia(bad speller) and many more I just dont know out of the 96 or is it 98 countries that agree with us in the war in iraq 94 of them are third world countries with no military and one of those 3rd world countries offered us 1000 monkeys to detonate land mines though. i think the country was morocco correct me if I'm wrong

 

[aztec reef]

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
I didnt say we still held them but we have in the past When? When has the USA ever colonized and annexed foreign countries? That's what Imperialists do...

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
israel lets see what country was there in 1957 what right did they have to just move back we all(not competely true but true for the most part) used to have family in england germany or other european countries what would happen if we just desided to move back and in the same time took over that country the world would murder us....
So, when the Ottoman Empire was broken apart, everyone had a right to a country in the region EXCEPT the Jewish people?
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
Russia so a country of backstabing right wingers having a bunch of civil wars is better than a bunch of dumb communist striving toward a common goal?
Where exactly are there civil wars going on right now in the former Soviet Union? Common goal in communism? What exactly was that other than to oppress the people...
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
fomer yugoslovia would have broken up any ways but how we did it was giving serbia all the weapons and you know how that turned out.
Ya, cause the Soviet Union was all for letting satellite countries break away... It's not like they ever used tanks, secret police and torture to put down rebellions.... You're basing that statement on what exactly? As for the weapons... last time I checked the religious violence in Serbia had nothing to do with the US, other than the fact that we helped end it. No idea where you got this nonsense...
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
1 country lets see iraq sombailia(bad speller) and many more I just dont know out of the 96 or is it 98 countries that agree with us in the war in iraq 94 of them are third world countries with no military and one of those 3rd world countries offered us 1000 monkeys to detonate land mines though. i think the country was morocco correct me if I'm wrong
The people of Iraq don't want us to leave... ask your cousin how the locals treat him. Somalia? We were feeding the people. They didn't want us to leave. As for the rest of that paragraph it's incoherent.
Where are you getting all of this "information" from?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
I didnt say we still held them but we have in the past ...
When? When has the USA ever colonized and annexed foreign countries? That's what Imperialists do... I mean, you can argue the Pilgrims were imperialists, the Texan colonists were Imperialists, etc. but that's a bit of a stretch on the global scale.
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
israel lets see what country was there in 1957 what right did they have to just move back we all(not competely true but true for the most part) used to have family in england germany or other european countries what would happen if we just desided to move back and in the same time took over that country the world would murder us....
So, when the Ottoman Empire was broken apart, everyone had a right to a country in the region EXCEPT the Jewish people?
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
Russia so a country of backstabing right wingers having a bunch of civil wars is better than a bunch of dumb communist striving toward a common goal?
Where exactly are there civil wars going on right now in the former Soviet Union? Common goal in communism? What exactly was that other than to oppress the people...
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
fomer yugoslovia would have broken up any ways but how we did it was giving serbia all the weapons and you know how that turned out.
Ya, cause the Soviet Union was all for letting satellite countries break away... It's not like they ever used tanks, secret police and torture to put down rebellions.... You're basing that statement on what exactly? As for the weapons... last time I checked the religious violence in Serbia had nothing to do with the US, other than the fact that we helped end it. No idea where you got this nonsense...
Originally Posted by aandwrobert
1 country lets see iraq sombailia(bad speller) and many more I just dont know out of the 96 or is it 98 countries that agree with us in the war in iraq 94 of them are third world countries with no military and one of those 3rd world countries offered us 1000 monkeys to detonate land mines though. i think the country was morocco correct me if I'm wrong
The people of Iraq don't want us to leave... ask your cousin how the locals treat him. Somalia? We were feeding the people. They didn't want us to leave. As for the rest of that paragraph it's incoherent.
Where are you getting all of this "information" from?

 

[myreef05]

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
If we pull out of Iraq Al Queda will not in my opinon go to afganistian the fight in Irag and afganistian is 2 different things
Iraq-oil aka money
afganistian-power
Al Queda would not want to go to afganistian do to the smaller suport group and the difficult terrian
Neither war is about Oil or Power.

 

[myreef05]

Originally Posted by aandwrobert
having a mom who is gulf war vet. I know ALOT about the gulfwar but they envaded a country SO WHAT!!! people are naturaly evil (I know its a quote from hobbes but I forgot the rest of it) and dictators are eviler but after we "saved" Kuwait we gave them the bill and now they are one of the poorest countries in the world.
and again we need to stop imperialism we have bases in 150 countries yes I know all I say is a little kids hippie crap but deal with it
Grow up and/or learn the facts. You have been totally wrong in all your posts so far in this thread.

 

[team2jndd]

Originally Posted by myreef05
Grow up and/or learn the facts. You have been totally wrong in all your posts so far in this thread.
He does have the facts... mommy told him.

 

[legion]

I love to read posts about politics. People express their views, but a would swear, they can never look at things objectively. The people that say we went there just for oil are nuts. And so are the people who say we should pull out.
I listen to Rush and the others, but I also listen to NPR and read liberal ideas.
Rush always talks about, "great moderates in American history". The fact is that most people are so set in "THEIR WAYS", that they cannot or even will not consider the fact that they are wrong.
Here are the facts now, Iraq is more unstable than it has been for sometime. But because of are removing of a dictator, atleast some of the people can see that some day they will live a happier life with more freedom. But if you were to say we are in no way responsible for the civilian fatalities that have and will persist for years to come, you are blind, we are in some part responsible for creating a unstable country out of a soveriegn one(all be it a dictator). Lets be honest, if another government threw leaflets over the US, I for one wouldn't move, so you can't and shouldn't expect any Iraqi to do so. The government should have and probably did anticipate the fact that our military will most likely NEVER leave Iraq(this of course is not what our gov. said). We went there for WMD and found NONE(we have them) and are also the only country to use them! Once a country has them, we WILL most likely do the diplomacy thing, its to risky and thats why saddam got beat down(he did deserve it). But it still stands that the one and only reason one could justify that is to also conclude that their lives are not as valuable as americans. To all you gun hos out there, Would you drop a bomb on a few american families who refused to leave their home so you could take out an insurgent HQ in America....NO
Blah... I know I ramble...Its like they say liberals have no guts, but conservatives have no heart
We should not have invaded, yes invaded(not liberated) Iraq(a soveriegn country). But once we create an unstable world for them have the guts to send in the boys and get it back for them as soon as possible.
The fact is that J.E. is right and The war on terror is and will be a rubber stamp for year to come. There will ALWAYS be terrorism! Killing for your cause is killing for your cause. It is the conservative Iraqi's that kill for their cause and the conservative americans who kill for theirs, wow thats alot of killing and not using your brain.

 

[crimzy]

Wow, it's so easy to justify us being at war as good vs. evil. Let me take a minute to raise a philosophical issue... in general, people are a very violent species. Inasmuch as we want to feel superior to those we fight against, people are and have always been barbaric. This war, and all wars for that matter, are simply a flaw that our species suffers. For some reason, we feel the need to conquer.
Everyone talks about some arbitrary concept of "winning" or "losing" this war if we pull out. What does this mean? If we stay and kill a thousand more Iraqis, what have we won? Does anyone truly believe that we will wipe out terrorism? We have already conquered the dictator and eliminated Iraq's potential to create weapons of mass destruction. All we are really doing is creating a generation of young Iraqi orphans who know that daddy was killed by the Americans. What do we accomplish by staying and what will be the cost?
On the other hand, if we leave Iraq, what have we lost? Forgive me for not having the "Napolean the conquerer" mentality that so many others seem to have. I just don't think that the arbitrary concept of victory/loss is important, aside from to our pride.
The young poster raised a good point... how many of you arguing so vehemently for victory are willing to give your lives for it? How easy it must be to take a "win at all costs" point of view as long as it's not you. Anybody that believes that this war is worth suffering American casualties should be willing to put his own life on the line for the cause, or you are a hypocrit. Just my opinion.

 

[seasalt101]

i am a veteran are you, i seved in a combat field did you i put my life on the line for this country did you, and if i was 5 years younger i would be there now would you?...tobin

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
i am a veteran are you, i seved in a combat field did you i put my life on the line for this country did you, and if i was 5 years younger i would be there now would you?...tobin

Hell no I wouldn't put my life on the line to blindly support our unscrupulous president. It's great that you did... I hope that is was for a more important cause than Bush's family pride and to line his pockets.

 

[seasalt101]

you think this is getting bush rich, where do people come up with this stuff? and if you are too afraid to put your butt on the line please do not knock those of our brave men serving to protect the cowards of this great country...tobin

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by seasalt101
you think this is getting bush rich, where do people come up with this stuff? and if you are too afraid to put your butt on the line please do not knock those of our brave men serving to protect the cowards of this great country...tobin

The fact is that Halliburton (Cheney) and the oil companies (Bush) are prospering here more than anyone else. You don't see that?
BTW, I wouldn't knock the soldiers... I'm one of the few people here who don't want to see them sacrificed. The only problem with our soldiers is that they are too trusting. Along with the rest of the country, they were sold a bill of goods with this war.

 

[legion]

After 9/11 I asked my wife told my wife I was thinking about the guard. She grew up a military brat. She said my divorce papers would be on the table if I did. She is bold not cowardly, and I love her for it. Do you consider me a coward for "staying the coarse" with my family instead of fighting for my country? I don't. Instead I coach my daughters softball team, home school my daughter because the governments money is spent on my important things than her/childrens education and volunteer and donate. I guess I really am unpatriotic because my (core family values) made me choose not to destroy this life I hold so dear.
If you think my wife would have came around, she would not have, and I would be a divorce statistic and my kids would not have a father as they should. All because I would have made a decision on an emotion rather than using that emotion to drive me to more logical sensible conclusion, where I sacrifice some of my beliefs for my family and Their well being.

 

[seasalt101]

and have you seen the price of oil, and surprise when i was working( due to cancer i am not presently) i worked in the oilfield and it does not cost anymore right now to make a well produce more oil than it did 5 years ago, i worked for halliburton, bj services, weathorford, key energy all as a contractor, we get very little oil from the middle east mostly mexico and venezuela, and the presidents hometown is midland tx which is 20 miles east of here and if you do your history you will see bush went bankrupt in oil check your facts and 5 years ago oil was at 21 dollars a barrel, and when cheney was the ceo of halliburton it was never over 25 dollars a barrel, halliburton making money what is wrong with that anyway, if bill gates makes money do you ***** about that too, it's called capitalism its what americans do...tobin

 

[seasalt101]

no this does not make you a coward it makes you a caring father and husband but the military is all volunteer so everyone who enlist knows the risk going in and they accept it, just for the record i am on edge from quitting smoking so i might be a little harsh sorry about that, but people who hide behind the fighting men and women of this country and say would you do it, hell yeah and i have, and if the government let me i'd do it all over again, freedom isn't free and those that think it is are foolish...tobin