OT - No BS Guys, we are going to war ...

[jrb384]

entice59,
your a perfect example of a person that enjoys the benefits of what others, or "old" people have done before you. You may not agree with things, or may not have enough life experience to fully understand things, but dishonoring your fallen american verterans is no excuse.
If you are drafted you would go and you would fight. You wouldnt be fighting for your government, or for foreign policy, you would only be fighting for you, and the man beside you. All the rest is bullcrap, and you would do whatever it took to come home.
After fighting and surviving, you would return to america only to find people just like you, spiting on you, and laughing at you because you "had a sign on the street and were a bum."
You have no idea what life would be like without govt, police, ect.
and you certainly wouldnt have an opinion or a fish tank.

 

[broncofish]

Originally posted by jrb384
Where I disagree is why show that on t.v.? Our troops need 100% support, so to achieve that, the govt propoganda machine is kicking into overdrive. Its like being in business, if your selling a product do you advertise with all the negatives? no. so what purpose would it serve to show limbless kids? IMO none, because no matter how many times they show it, or how many americans it turns against the war effort, it will not change the fact that our servicemen and women will still be there.

First of all I have to remind everybody, I am a servicemen, I've served in Saudi, Kuwait, Afghanistan, and even some cool places like spain, and montana, and if asked I will go again because that is what I pledged to do........but at some point through education or maturity you start to wonder why am I checking out chem gear, and a weapon. Has this proven to be worth the cost of war.(still no weapons found, and as far as UN resolutions Israel ignores just as many) IF there is a war, and kids, not american kids, but kids from all sides are dieing then I want my son to see it on T.V. when he is older, I want my family to know that there is loss of life from every angle. The effort to keep war bloodless in the American mind is sick. Once again the fact that you think none of it matters, because it will not change anything is sad! We are a government of the people for the people, but the people can't change anything; come on. Also everyone stop picking on entice He is expressing his view as an american, and quite personally I don't want him sleeping in the bunk next to me if he does not want to be there.
"Against the war, not the soldier"

 

[coop21]

Couple points I want to stick my nose into. I'm a Navy Corpsman who's itching to get over there. Unfortunatly as an x-ray tech, it's not likely. I just recieved orders to 29 palms, so who knows what the future holds. As far as the stop loss thing, there's a couple of my friends getting out this month, but there's no gurantee they won't be back.
One of our jobs as the worlds superpower is to "police" the world. Sure there's the UN, but if we're the ones always helping countries with aid and stuff, why can't we throw down the hammer when another country gets out of line?
As far as the draft goes, I've always been for it. The only problem I see with that is the quality of the average soldier, sailor, Marine, ect.

 

[jrb384]

bronco,
we can agree to disagree on the tv footage. I think we agree that were going to war for the wrong reasons. And having served we know that thousands of good young men are going to die, and often times needlessly, or for what we feel is crappy foreign policy. i.e. oil, oil, oil. u must have missed my post about after the war was over, maybe all the gasoline companies could etch the names of dead soldiers on brass plates and attach them onto gasoline handles to honor them.
Scott Ritter was a combat decorated marine in the gulf war, he was also later a un weapons inspector. he caught hell lately for critisizing the bush administration by saying there is no proof, no smoking gun. All he was asking for was proof. I take merrit in his reports and agree, why now? 10 years, and what do they have that they didnt have the past 10 years. why now?
Put aside the fact that Cigar Bill had 8 years to keep this under control and didnt. doesnt it all seem just a bit conveinant that the war on terror is tied into iraq now? but maybe this stretch is all bush can do to fix a problem he inherited, or i guess he could start banging and smoking in the oval office.
getting back to personal opinions not mattering, what i meant was, when your knee deep in assholes and abdul is firing for affect, you wont care what foreign policy got you there, or what you think about bush, you'll only be thinking about yourself and your buddy and getting home.

 

[broncofish]

Very true jrb very true. Well put indeed.

 

[entice59]

Mike did you sign up for the military? If you did, then that was YOUR choice. My friend also joined the marines, but i never made fun or mocked what he believed in. My friend told me how greatful he was for everything around him after it everything was taken away during boot camp.
No i am not making fun of the vietnam vets, i am mearly telling you how war can effect people and that they are under apprecatiated(dont you agree?) for fighting a war and not getting anything back.
Im not saying this is a BS war, im just mearly saying that the rich have the right to say if we get drafted or not, when do we get a say on this? And all the other wars, im not saying that was of life and time. I am not ungrateful of the people who died serving this country, if some people are suggesting that
no i am not one of those people who believe in anarchy if you even suggesting that
There are people who are motivited into joining the military and they joined because they wanted to. I guess im not motavated enough to support my country by joining the military. Sorry if i am still a teenager but thats who i am right now, didnt mean to start a rukus and sorry if i angered you

 

[rogeta]

Hey guys...I've been following this thread now since it has started..I would also like to point out that I am only 16 so i may be off base here...
First the whole idea of draft...it goes both ways..there really isn't a black and white answer if you ask me...its good if the man power is needed, and you never know what kind of people will shine through durning the time of crisis, But on the other hand 90% of the people drafted aren't gonna want to be there and therefore they won't give it there all, and thats just asking for trouble..simple fact of most human life..If you don't like something or don't agree with it you won't do it the best you can.
As for going to war with With terrorism or rather the middle east..i wouldn't say that it was unessisary...To me it doesn't matter which president or administration does it, it just needs to be done. The Middle east is a very problematic place. If its not taken care of now its just gonna get worse to the point that it would be almost impossible to stop. If Bush (first one) would have finished what he started in the first place, who knows what might have happoned...the terrorists may have been subdued enough to keep the WTC from falling from terrorist, maybe not. But ignoring what needs to be done will just lead to a bigger problem and more loss of life then a war with them right now will.
So, like i said i may be off base, but thats how i feel.
~Rocco~

 

[phishman1]

I spent 20 years in the Air Force, retiring in 1992. Unfortunately, I in no way agree with Pres Bush's war effort with Iraq. I personally believe that with the economy tanking, the 9-11 attacks, the overall lack of confidence in the US as a whole by its citizens, Bush needs this war talk to get re elected.
Its a diversion from all of us thinking about the economy and a sure fire way to keep the news media leading with that story each and every day.
Unfortunately, some mothers and fathers will have to sacrifice their sons and daughters for his re election effort. And I have a son in the Air Force so I'm speaking from the heart here.
I'm sure some of you won't like what I posted, but its my opinion, and I believe that is exactly what is happening. God forbid, our military starts coming home in body bags so Bush can say "I told you so" and finish was his Dad wasn't able to accomplish. Nuff Said..

 

[mikegronholz]

If Bush Sr. had finished it ? WTF ?!?!?!?!? Had Clinton not pulled all the troops out we WOULD still have had pressure there. Clinton pulled us out, cut our raises, and slashed our manpower !!! I don't think Bush needs this war. Dolw would have sat back like his buddy Bill and said "Nothing I could have done. To help rebuild, we'll suspend the military raises and slash their budgets. We'll cut taxes on the wealthy to make sure I get reelcted."
I 100% admire and respect military retirees' beliefs, but I have to disagree on Bush's war motive. The only negative I see is Bush has a personal score to settle. BUT he is not rushing in to do it. Bush is NOT the best politician out there. But he surrounds himself with the best advisors. After all, do we REALLY want 1 man/woman doing it all their way ? My personal belief is the way it should work is the president's cabinet and senior military officials should each sell their point to someone. Then that person shold make a decision based on what appears to be the best. Clinton KNEW what was best (in his mind). He didn't listen to anyone,....maybe his mind was occupied as his eyes were rolled back

 

[broncofish]

Hey mike WTF? Bush (Sr.)gave less pay raises then Clinton, Clinton actually authorised a variable BAH that kept people stationed in California from living like animals, and clinton did not cut manning, recruiters could not keep up with the economy(these are non debatable facts). It is also a fact that the economy sucks. I don't know if that is the reason he wants to go to war or not, but it does suck. I think it should be noted that I'm not a democrat.

 

[broncofish]

Oh yeah and three straight years since clinton left office that we have not recieved a big payraise, I'm waiting for all these huge benefits of having a republican president? Maybe I should become a democrat, but than i would be a part of the same party as Grey Davis....yuck

 

[coop21]

No big pay raise? I'm getting the biggest raise since joining 7 years ago. Bush has done more for this military than Clinton ever did. That's why I'm afraid of Hillary. Don't get me started on her. Bush (Sr.) didn't "finish the job" the first time because that wasn't the mission. This time it's about regieme (sp?) change, not about payback, or certainly not for re-election purposes. Your opinions are cool because they're yours. I think Rocco's post said it all. How about we put those death row inmates out there with blanks in their guns?

 

[entice59]

i also forgot to imput that if it wasnt for americans bombing and attack the japs during world war 2, my grandparents would not a live today. They were in china at the the time the japanese invaded china, one thing they do not teach in the history books(which is harsh) is that the japanese were as bad as the nazi's. In world war 2 the japanese used children as target practice by making them run while the rifle men pick them off one by one. They also use the bainet(knife part on the rifle) and speared babies while in the crib and would toss their bodies while still speared to the knife into a big pile. They also used experiments on people by infecting them with dieases and cutting flesh and removing organs from living people. Japanese soldiers also took and captured women aroudn asia making them "comfort women", basically --- slaves and they would be forced to have --- all day long against their will.
What the most shocking and appauling thing about this is the Japanese Government has yet to appologize for all this and they think they did the right thing, their textbooks in japan make them heros and glorify what they did in worldwar 2, they just happened to forget what they really did to civillians
I guess living in San Francisco made me into a "hippie"

 

[buzz]

Not to change the subject from all of the heated opinions out there, but back to the original post. Mike - If you end up actually going over there, just take care of yourself, OK? And don't keep these conversations about WWII, and Korea, Bush -v- Clinton, etc., in your head. You have more important things to focus on, and none of this changes that. Stay safe!

 

[broncofish]

Maybe we should ask a mod to kill this post before it gets stupid, and all just agree that our vets need to stay safe.

 

[entice59]

Yes i agree too, sorry for going off topic like that but i sounded ungrateful for living here, but take care mike and we will see you soon

 

[mikegronholz]

No need to kill the thread. WE have a HUGE post on "getting to know the people behind ...." This is getting to know each other. We are all talking about our beliefs. So times we get mad about what others say, but it is everyone's right to say it. WE all get to disagree. The thread was started to let the community know the Navy and Marine Corps are "in it for the haul". It has evolved in to a discussion, not yet a debate. There aree debatable topics, but I don't think we have reached the point of going to blows yet. It irritates me when people (there are many) think the military is over-paid and blah blah blah. It also irritates me when people complain about the service messing up their lives. My biggest beef is how do you know it would mess your life up if you haven't been there ? I have yet to see a service member post that joining was the worst thing they could have done and/or it ruined their life.
I like reading what others think. After all, like I said before, my mission is to ensure each and everyone of you have a place to call home. That may sound cheesy, but every swearing in ceremony I have had has the line "... to SUPPORT and DEFEND..." whether I like you, hate you, buy frags from you or whatever, my mission is to make sure you can have an opinion.
I think it is interesting that so many people can have differing views on a single fact. We all interperet that fact our own ways based on our heritage and beliefs.
I also did not intend for this to be my "sending off" but more of a sending off to the almost 250,000 troops there or on their way. I am next to go from my location to IMEF if the need arrises.
Buzz - my wifey pooh will be watching the BTA but if you want to visit, you are welcome to The only thing in my mind will be MISSION ACCOMPLISHMENT.

 

[fishman88]

all of you do no that if we lose the "war" all of the middle east will take over and spend all the $$$ ON WAR WEPONS AND THAT MEANS NO MORE FISH FOR US
ok but on a serious note i hope we kick all there a$$es
mike

 

[buzz]

Gee...that was profound fishman88...simply...........profound.
--sigh--
Mike - sounds good!

 

[fishfood]

I have two buddies who just left for Georgia for 3 weeks then somewhere overseas. They didn't know where. Both of them could have gotten out of going. One was actually out of the reserve or guard(can't remember) and the other one who went talked him into going. He want and got sworn in and left last weeks. Both of them said they hope they don't end up in N. Korea. They are afraid to go there.
My question is what happens if we level Iraq and find nothing. Not a trace of nukes or weapons. We will lose all kinds of support from around the would(if we have a lot) but guess what... The gas prices will drop. I agree with positioning ourselves for a fast strike but damn if they don't find anything how can we justify attacking?