OT: Peace or war?

[fishead]

reefnut the quote i chose is from a famous poster that protested the vietnam war. a war that accomplished nothing and cost the lives of over 52,000 americans. in the late 1700s americans went to war to free them selves. If the Iraqi people want to have an american style democracy then dont you thing they would revolt?

 

[fishead]

i've not seen anything about confirmed scuds. apperently i must be watching the wrong channel (CNN). and their crew was kicked out of Iraq. Finding banned weapons is the only thing that would bring me to the (war vote side). and unite the rest of the world in Pres. Bush's cause. I hope your right. I'll pay closer attention.

 

[wrassecal]

Originally posted by fishead
well said mchandler but i cant support a decision that isnt accepted by the UN, NATO, EU, Arab League,...ect.
Talk about waiting til hell freezes over

 

[reefnut]

Originally posted by fishead
reefnut the quote i chose is from a famous poster that protested the vietnam war. a war that accomplished nothing and cost the lives of over 52,000 americans. in the late 1700s americans went to war to free them selves. If the Iraqi people want to have an american style democracy then dont you thing they would revolt?
This war is not vietnam and alot has changed from the 1700s.

 

[fishead]

Sorry redcorsair but Peter Jennings (ABC news) just said no scuds or any weapons of mass destruction have been used or found as of yet.

 

[fishead]

reefnut what has changed since the 1700s is that the USA has become the worlds only super power and is perceived by the rest of the world as a country persuing world domination. unilateral decisions about forgien policy (especially in the middle east and the worlds oil supply) only foster this belief and could destroy nato, increase the power of the eu and isolate the USA. If demacracy is the issue then why is it that everything in walmart is made in china?

 

[fishead]

redcorsair. hi, i see you are a military man, and a young one at that. As a veteran myself i can apperiate your opinion but treason is a very harsh word. If you get a chance please do some research on words like vietnam, korea, cuba, watergate and bay of pigs. then maybe your feelings about protesting wont be so intense. respectfully yours, fishead.

 

[fishead]

I totaly agree 44

 

[slick]

This is what I'm talking about. What a way to protest violence.

 

[slappy]

these protesters have to realize look what saddam has done in the past 12 years if we give him another 12 god only knows what kind of weapons he will have, we should have done this the first time around. as far as them blocking traffic, hey it may not be snowing out but the plow on my truck still works

 

[beth]

Why didn't anyone complain when we went into Kosovo, WO the UN?????? Its amazing how 2-faced peoples'/certian countries' positon can be.

 

[dattong]

Soon there will peace after war, so I go for war. We're not striking against man but evil regime. I pray for our soldiers every nite 'cause my little brother is one of them.

 

[entice59]

Originally posted by Jillian Ayers
I think San Francisco is probably fed up with protestors by now!
amen
if they block traffic again im going to mow them down with the american flag waved proudly in the air....
With the price of gas, i cant afford to wait
the city wastes too much money on overtime for cops to watch these protestors. That money could be used to help with the budget cuts in our educational system. Teachers getting pinkslips, teachers who get paid less then 50,000 a year living in the bay area... come on now.
Im for protesting for things you believe in, but do not block traffic and piss people off.

 

[wrassecal]

I think these OT's about war/peace etc are good and agree with Beth that we are all affected and need to get it off our chest. I also like it because we are kind of the ultimate "gallup poll" Take hundreds of people whose only known common thing is they are into saltwater fish/reef tanks. Then poll them on what they think. Maybe we could HairTrigger to announce our results on Headline News

 

[tangman99]

I fully support what we are doing and my prayers are with the troops that will get it done. Like everyone else, I want peace. But peace can only come through war at times.
The fact remains that if we waited several years until we had a major terrorist strike in the USA with Sadam on international TV claiming responsibility, we would still have protesting in our own country and nations like France voting against war under all circumstances.
The sad part is that on both ends of the equation, their are those that go along with what they have been taught and never really analyze their true feelings about the immediate situations. They won't budge on their beliefs for any reason.
A true story that happened to me painfully reminds me of this very notion. I'll change some of the details in the slim chance that someone may know this incident as it was obviously news in the surrounding area.
Many years ago in another place I worked death row while going to college at night. A life long friend of mine that I grew up with was very opposed to the death penalty and was always among the protestors outside when an execution was scheduled. It strained our friendship many times, but fortunately our friendship endured. I moved away and lost contact with him after awhile and several years passed. I received a phone call from his sister one day telling me that my friend had died. Apparently his young son was abducted and without elaborating on details the worst outcome occurred. My friend found out who did it and shot the man to death and took his own life afterward. Needless to say, I was in shock. I left the next day to go to his funeral. When I arrived home, I picked up my mail and found a letter from him. After staring at it for 3 days, I opened it. In it he simply stated that in an instant, all that he believed in was changed and to pray for his soul.
The lesson I learned from my friend's incident was to look at every situation in it's own light and not conform to one train of thought to apply to every situation. If you truely believe in something then defend it, but be willing to understand others' perspectives on the same situation.
Sorry for making this so long.

 

[broncofish]

The freeing of Iraqi's is awesome, and it makes me happy...if this does not turn into another Afghanistan (woohoo there free, and shooting each other over watermelons in the streets of Qandahar). If anyone here believes that the primary reason we went to war was to free people, and had nothing to do 41 out of 50 of Bush's top people being involved with the Oil industry, I want what your smoking Overall we have done a good thing, so are we going to do it next for Saudi, Iran, Tibet, North Korea, Israel, and Palestine? Peace is great, peace protesters who cause havoc suck, but let us not forget that we are fighting a war to ensure the freedoms of people overseas, not to squash are own freedoms here(blocking streets is not a freedom in my book though). Last but not least, If we find no Chem/Bio weapons(I agree with jwtrojan44 though, I'm sure we will plant them if we don't) and Bush does not issue an apology to the international community, he should be impeached. I have a feeling if Iraq still had them they would be flying all over the battle field already. Even Fox news(mouthpiece for the Whitehouse) is wondering where they are. If they are truly there I hope they stay covered and hidden away, so our troops don't have to deal with them. Bless our troops, and bring them home safe.

 

[fshhub]

I am not going to get into a debate, but wil point out a few things
first, No evidense of scuds???
there were many many used in the gulf war, I can say that I have seen them. they were there.
other weapons of mass destruction. Well, how much more evidence is needed, other than Saddam himself admitting to it??
Were you watching, when he offereed to destroy some? And tried to negotiate the remaining in question?? Or how about when Saddma hd threatend to use them against us and anyone who supports us? That is like saying in court, Your honor, I have no gun, so it could not be me, but if you convict me, I will shoot you in the eye with taht same gun I don't have.
destroy what and negotiate a stall with what? IF they did not exist, why is he doing it? OR did we forget, that he offered to do so, after he ahd realized we would not stop. Do you think he just fabricated it,a nd was going to fabricate the destruction of something that does not exist??? It wcould be possible, had we only wanted his word, but we did not and he knew we would be wanting to see evidence of their destruction.
And there were 2 weapons of mas destruction fired, so far. Or am I wron in assuming hte 2 missiles fired were not weapons of mass destruction, and were merely weapons that could only harm one or 2 people? to me a weapon fo mass destruction is pretty much that. Not firearms or weapons that would only harm a small number of people at such a great distance
as for the protestors, I have to wonder where they are coming from, as the picture suggests, they protest war and violence, but would do so themselves in order to show htat they are against it. How does this work?? They are just LIKE PETA. In most cases, they would harm other humans to think they are saving one. Yes, it would make sense, if there were only one at risk, but we are talking about millions fo people. How can you justify harming a handful of people just ot put millions at risk? They definitely are not saving milions by doing so.
i think all these protestors, should be sent to iraq, to see exactly what they are protesting against, and to see that they are being obsurd. Yes obsurd, they would see pesonally that Saddam is firing these same missiles at innocent people, in a town that only serves as a target to threaten us with. Not firing at invading solders, but a town or city full of innocent civilians jsut trying to stay alive.

 

[nm reef]

Ok...I've finally be drawn into this thread and now I'll express my opinion....
I am often at odds with the politics of our leaders.
Personally... any man or woman prepared to die to protect my freedom has my respect.
War....peace....here is my decision.....on my right arm!!!!!

 

[beth]

And we're being called barbaric. Now the Iraqi "army" is using women and children as sheilds to protect their military building.
Trojan....LOL....we seem always to be on the same page! [But why did you have to say it?? ! ]
Here is a list/comparison of of the CNN website of the weapons, including known weapons that Iraq has....including scuds.
http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/ira...ons/index.html
BTW: Peter Jennings is a Canadian, who is also anti-Bush, anti-war. He resently lost face when he refused to allow a popular country western singer sing a pro-USA military song at his 4th-of-July show that aired on ABC to celebrate July 4, 2002. This generated a boycot of his show, basically making it a flob in this country. Thus, IMO, so much for unbiaed reporting from ABC. The Network Channels, and even FOX, are nortoriously biased, IMO. Stick to CNN if you have cable.

 

[fishead]

Interesting reading http://www.zmag.org/zmag/articles/ShalomIranIraq.html
Titled The US and the Iran/Iraq war