Overwelomed Newbie here! CUC? Anenome died, just HELP!!!!!

[saltyjewell]

Okay I've probably been driving some of you nuts with all my questions over the boards but I'm just trying to learn
I'm just looking for any adivce help with my set-up feeding, clean-up crew. Just reassurance I'm doing things right.
For those who haven't read my posts before I bought a house that has a 170g saltwater tank. It was an 8 month close on the house and apparently the old owner decided not to do a thing with the tank. It was just a horrible mess and to make a long story short I ended up doing a 99% water change and changing out the gravel for live sand. It's 40lbs live sand and a lot of live rock but I don't know the weight. Had some die off with the live rock as I couldn't put it back just right and some were upside down ect...
The tank came with:
1 Sailfin Tang(the larger of the two species)
1 Yellow Tang
1 3 Stripe Damsel
1 Chromis(I think) It has a purple body and yellow tail
1 Mono(I sold it as it was beating up the smaller fish)
I have since added:
2 Occelaris Clowns
1 Longnose Butterfly
1 Scooter Dragnette
2 Diamond Goby(only 1 left as one jumped)
My Clean up crew
5 Mexican Turbo Snails
4 Tri-Coloured Hermits(had 5 Anenome got one)
1 Red Star Fish
4 Scarlett Hermits(Just added today)
9 Cerith Snails(just added today. Got all the IFs had)
Had 2 black Turbos but they died within a couple days of getting them
I do a 10g to 25g water change each week plus a 5g top off from evporation. I test the water about twice a week everythings good except the nitrAtes are between 10 and 20ppm. The ammona was uo to .05 once last week before a water change. I keep the water at 78 but on hot days it will rise to 79.9.
Now here's my big upset. We went away for just a couple of days. I raised the AC so it wouldn't come on as much but still wouldn't let the tank get to warm. Of course hubby turnned it right off before we left

I had SIL come over once a day to feed but she doesn't know anything about the tank. So anyway the tanks was at 84.8 when I got home and my seabea anenome looked REALLY bad

It was dead by morning double

I tested the water with two different test kits and everything was normal except for the nitrAtes being at 20pmm which I believe is just from switing the top of the sand around trying to get rid of the diatoms. The only thing that changed was the temp. I was feeding it froozen reef mix(thawed of course) twice a week. Everything else is fine could have anything else have gone wrong? I actually looked like it might have been about to split before this happened.
Sorry I am just really feeling overwelomed with it at the moment. I wasn't expecting the tank to be such a mess when we moved in. It's been so much work to get back in shape. The water has to be good as the Sailfin had ripped his tail and got a bit of what I think was HLLE when we had to take the fish out to fix the tank, it REALLY stressed him out but he is already healed all up(its been about 2 months now but his tail healed in less then a week) The chomis looked really bad when I got the tank but is a picture of health now.
I finally have all the giters cleaned up. I didn't want to do them all at once. I did the sump in two parts weeks apart and still have only done 50% of the bio balls. Cleaned the skimmer and totally replaced the side filter expect for using some of the old meida out of it just washed. Replaced a couple blubs and got two of the 4 power heads working, 2 went in the garbage and will be replaced when I can.
The diatoms are driving me nuts. I hope the new snails and hermits help with that but I know its really just time. I want to add some nassarius snails, a couple more mexican turbos and a couple blood shrimp. I don't really like the cucumbers and I haven't seen a fight conch yet.
I feed a algea pellet, red seaweed and a froozen reef mix. I do normally fed three times a day but in VERY small amounts that I see them eat in less then a min. Except the froozen mix which I just feed 2-3 times a week. I let that thaw then I feed small amount through out the day. Its little sqaures from a 3.5oz package. I'm getting froozen mysis shrimp soon once the IFs stock it.
Really what do you all think of what I'm doing?

 

[meowzer]

WELL...I would stop stirring the sand up...who knows what's being released into the water......I also would feed frozen more often then pellets....I also would not add anything else...you may have added too much too soon after changing so much around
anemones are very sensitive...nitrates will bother them ..as will temp swings...I would not get another one until you figure out your trates....
IF you do get more snails, get some nassarius and cerith. also see if your lfs can get you a few fighting conch...that will help with the sand clean up
remember...DO NOT STIR

 

[saltyjewell]

I'll leave the sand alone I wasn't stiring but just moving the top. I won't be adding anything else except maybe some nassarius snails and a fighting conch if some come in, even then it will be a month from now. I hope what I have in there is enough to keep up with the tank.
I want corals but I'm betting it will be close to a year before I do that.

 

[saltyjewell]

Maybe some people can list the size of their tanks and their clean up crew. I looked at the reef packages and for over 100g there's like 50 snails, 50 hermits ect.... Which just seems like that all the tank would be. I'm hoping these snails will breed and multply.

 

[meowzer]

LOL. I have heard that you should have 1 snail per gallon. i know I have added hundreds in my 225g. I am sure some have bred, as I am even more sure that many have died. Or been eaten

 

[crypt keeper]

Trates at 20PPm probably didnt kill him that fast. The temp did. They like temps at a cool 78.
Personally a 50 to 75 gallon water change once a month would be best. I would set up a fuge in the sump. How long are the lights staying on for? This could be the cause of the diatom bloom. Along with what type of water are you using? do you have an RO unit? What type of salt are you mixing with?

 

[crypt keeper]

did you buy your live sand out of a tank or in a bag from Carib sea sitting on a shelf somehwere?
How big the skimmer? what is the name brand?

 

[deejeff442]

dont see too many tanks with shelf rock anymore.
you said you redid the tank 3 months ago ?
and have already added more fish?
you just need the tank to stableize now for a few months.
keep up with weekly water changes and it should work itself out.
you are lucky when the anenome died it didnt nuke the entire tank and kill all the fish.i dont like the anenoes ,too much to go wrong with them in a reef tank.they move around and will kill other corals.so if you plan to add corals down the line i would scratchthe anenome.

 

[ophiura]

For a start, this is a big time slow down situation.
Do not add any more fish. If I recall, this was your first experience with a saltwater tank? I can't remember...either way though, a slow down would be needed for even an experienced hobbyist

So regardless of the age of the tank, you are potentially a new hobbyist...or at least with this tank, and for all intentions purposes, this is a new tank. The fact that it wasn't has saved you a great deal I fear, because at least there was a biological filter. Had it been a new, new tank, at this rate I am afraid it would all be gone.
What kind of "red starfish?" Starfish are very delicate and some are not compatible with your clean up crew...or will potentially die of starvation.
Snails, etc, often die due to poor acclimation and parameters. I may have overlooked the specific gravity, pH, alkalinity, Calcium levels? How did you acclimate your snails and such?

 

[king_neptune]

for some reason your Auqua scape looks liek Mt Reineer.

 

[saltyjewell]

I didn't add all the fish at once and definatly won't be adding more. Hubby wanted the anenome and star fish, I shouldn't have let him but what is done is done. The star fish was just labeled "red Starfish" It kind of looks like the Red Star fish listed on this site but there's more black to it's bumps and the end of each finger is black. It has been in the tank 3 weeks now and had made it's way across the top rim in that time and just today started moving up and down the glass at a faster pace but has made it's way to rim again and has slowed down. Seems to like something up there.
I float the bags in the water for 30mins then open them and add a small amount of tank water and let it sit 15mins before putting them in a pail with the bag water and more tank water. I leave them there for another 15mins then take them out and put them in the tank to avoid putting the IFS water into my tank.
The sand came from a bag I got at the IFs. I had the lights on for 8hrs for the anenome but since it's gone now I've cut it to 6hrs. This is my first saltwater tank of my own, my brother had a 100g tank will I was growing up. He had an aggressive tank with lions and triggers. I really enjoyed them but I'm going to stick with the community type fish.
I've been using tap water that I put prime in and let sit for a minium 24 hrs but since I've found this site I plan on looking into a RO unit. I really wish I had found this site first as I feels as I got bad advice from others, people here seem to know much more and care much more.

 

[saltyjewell]

Originally Posted by King_Neptune
http:///forum/post/3100663
for some reason your Auqua scape looks liek Mt Reineer.
*lol* I think I suck at the arty stuff but the fish like the hiding holes

 

[crypt keeper]

CUc arent even neded. Us aggressive guys dont have them. I found that out by making my first tank a shell graveyard with two triggers.
Personally i would re do the sump. DIy project. get the biggest tank that can fit under there. Make your own sections with plexiglass. Make the biggest fuge you can. Buy a bigger skimmer. Get the power heads in there and add some Fiji live rock. That stuff is great gorgeous in color and has ton of life.
This will get your water where you want and save a ton of headaches. No bio balls no real cleaning. Just empty out the collection cup on the skimmer every week rinse it out and you're golden.

 

[jackri]

Tap water can very very very easily be causing your nitrates and diatoms.
Sorry hard to remember everything as the paragraphs are really big and theres a lot to digest in there. Temps of 84 degrees aren't necessarily deadly to anything but the anemone.
If you are looking to have a CUC I ordered 100 each astrea snails and hermit crabs in my 90g and by no means was it too many.
Your picture doesn't show up for me but if you have a friend with experience and knowledge who can come over and help you out would be very beneficial as you can just stream questions.
In the past when I've sold frags people feel bad about asking so many questions but thats a good thing as it always seems like something forgets to be addressed.
A 170g tank is VERY nice size to have and hope you get rewarded with all the work you put into it and just remember patience is a big key. There are a lot of other factors that can go into this -- skimmer, sump, etc --- but I've seen a 150g beautiful reef set up for 12 years with no sump or skimmer but has regular water changes and uses a RO/DI system.
The RO/DI (even a RO system) will save you a lot of headaches... everything else (sump/skimmer) and just gravy on top to have but not always necessary with good maintenance.
Also I would only feed once a day regardless... and put a seaweed clip in a couple of times a week for the tangs. I feed my tanks once a day for 2 days, take a day off, then 2 days etc. Your fish won't starve.
Hope some of that helps (being partially distracted too lol)

 

[saltyjewell]

I really like my hermit crabs and in the furture plan to get more. They sell the blue legged hermit at the IFs in 5s so maybe I'll get 10 of those in a month or two. I want more snails but not hundreds. This site says that mexican Turbos should be 1 per 20g would that make up for less little snails? I plan on keep on top of the water changes ect.... I like the cierths and nass ones as they keep the sand turnned up.
Again different views I guess as some seem to have a huge clean up crew and some have none. I really don't want to have to supplement them.
Its like something hatched in crazy amounts yesterday. The tank got full of these little miroscopic white dots and the fish just went nuts trying to eat them all. Could these have been cods(or what ever it is the dragentte eats?)
My dranette eats anything that falls infront of him thats small enough and is always eatting stuff of the rocks.
I have to go to work now but you haven't heard the last of me. I have so many questions, I hope you all don't mind.

 

[flower]

Copepods...
Are you sure the anemone is dead?...they shrink up to a little drooping mass once in awhile...they release the old water an fill up again.

 

[saltyjewell]

it was definantly dead. The fish were picking at it

 

[jackri]

In my experience the turbo snails seem to die faster than astrea... and my having corals etc, they knock stuff around.. are big and clunky -- but for your tank may be great. I don't supplement my CUC -- they get enough waste and do fine by themselves.

 

[kspops]

I just got over a Daitom bloom that had all my rocks covered in brown. My hermits (red and blue legs) would just do a little at a time, Then I got 6 Mexican Turbos and have had nothing but clean rocks since. I will more than likely put one in the QT to get that cleaned up, but that will do it. The rest is up to nature.