Pitbulls... Let's have the debate.

shane784

shane784

Member
I think I can speak for everyone (if I can't let me kno) when I say that ANY dog in the wrong owners hands can be a bad seed. I personally have a pit and she is 4 yrs old and weighs 60lbs! she loves to play and even when getting rough she never bites. shows teeth yeah and I can put my arm in her mouth at that point and she knows better. I've had her since a pup and she is very friendly to the neighbor children or anyone we see walking on the street. granted, she lets me know if someone is at the door or if she senses a stranger near but never any aggression. her brother is personally owned by the kennel operator I got her from and is trained to eat tires and jump and hang from ropes tied on trees. basically to me, every dog has an aggressive side its up to the owner to bring it out to the surface or hide it away to never be seen.
 
shane784

shane784

Member

And I am sorry this screams ignorance.
I agree darth,
but to a point she is right. unkosher ppl tend to obtain pits because they know they arr intimidating and can be trained to attack.. but. not a SOLE choice for people of the underworld, its the norm nowadays - like how rich people wanna buy Benz's. they can have a toyota or a nissan but want something with a reputation. how about the gang members and violent people that raise dobermans and rotts? its very unfortunate for the Pit breed that each newborn pup is already born into a world of discrimination. he didn't choose to be a pit nor is he BORN violent.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/20#post_3508046
And I am sorry this screams ignorance.
Darth, the Pitt bulls that run amok, get chained outside and not kept as house pets, are not trained, and land up in the shelters where other people rescue them after so much damage is done.... belong to the dumbest thugs I have ever seen...I got that impression from the stories in the paper, on the news and in the bad neighborhoods of Chicago.
The trained well behaved adjusted animals belong to the few people who actually take the time to train their dog. It's a people problem, not the breed...It is the dog of choice for the gang bangers and wannabe gang bangers. They like the dog because they want to feel tough, then when the animal becomes a liability they are given up. Folks step in with adoption and try to make them into house pets, it's almost always a swinging door and the dog keeps getting re-homed....it makes me gag.
Any big dog breed that can be made mean such as the German Shepherd, Doberman and the Rottweiler has been in that category...but the pitt bull is now the dog of choice because they get them cheap or free when another irrisponsible person is ready to give them up.
P.S.
I posted before reading the last 2 posts from Shane, a dog breed with a "reputation" is just the right word to discribe the mentality I'm talking about. Even an abused St. Bernard can be made mean, but LOL...they are so dang lovable it's hard to do.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
I agree that the American pit bull is the dog of choice for punks who are or want to be thugs or perceived as thugs. It is just "badass" to have such a dog in their limited minds. Its not a reflection on the breed at all, but on the lowlifes who use them as a symbol of their alleged power. The breeds reputation, justified or not, is the reason for that.
Speaking of the American pit bull. Someone in my neighborhood owns a pair. My son was coming for a visit and arrived at our home in the middle of night. We were unloading the bags from the car when these pair apparently got out and ran up to us with some in-you-face barking. They didn't jump on us, but they would get right up to us barking like crazy. Funny thing is, we really are not so afraid of dogs or any animals so we just kept on about our business unloading the car while the dogs were protesting. They would get right up to legs and follow us all the time barking. We finally went in the house and the dogs left. I think back on that and wonder if we were crazy not being intimidated at all by this. These were pretty big dogs and while they didn't seem like they were ready to attack, they were aggressively barking like crazy. I almost think that not being afraid and kinda ignoring the ruckus kept us from being attacked?
 
elrodg

elrodg

Member

He He, Any Idea how I can keep a Beagle from digging into anything that remotely might smell like something to eat? My lab cross is great, I could leave a plate of food on the coffee table and he wouldn't touch it but the Beagle tried to drag stuff off the counters and don't even think about leaving a trash bag where he can find it.
That's just simple preparations and obedience training. But a beagle is a hunter and a digger naturally. So I think it would be quite difficult to get it to stop altogether
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elrodg http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508069
That's just simple preparations and obedience training. But a beagle is a hunter and a digger naturally. So I think it would be quite difficult to get it to stop altogether
Yeah, My last pair I had to get rid of. We moved to the city and silly me, I thought a 6 foot privacy fence would contain them just fine but NOOOOOOOOOOO, they were quite adept at tunneling in the sandy soil here. Couldn't take a chance on them getting ran over living on a fairly busy street.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508116
Yeah, My last pair I had to get rid of. We moved to the city and silly me, I thought a 6 foot privacy fence would contain them just fine but NOOOOOOOOOOO, they were quite adept at tunneling in the sandy soil here. Couldn't take a chance on them getting ran over living on a fairly busy street.
Echoing what 2Quills posted...I use a radio wave fence...I don't have to bury a wire. The unit stays in the house, and as long as my dogs stay within the parameter they won't get a shock. It's better than the buried wire type, because the dog will continue to get shocked until they return to the safe zone, so there is no muscling their way past the zap and not being able to return home. $325.00 and it comes with one collar, I purchased the second collar for my female for $125.00.
Sorry to hear you got rid of your furbabies because of digging through the fence...that had to crush your heart.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508123
Echoing what 2Quills posted...I use a radio wave fence...I don't have to bury a wire. The unit stays in the house, and as long as my dogs stay within the parameter they won't get a shock. It's better than the buried wire type, because the dog will continue to get shocked until they return to the safe zone, so there is no muscling their way past the zap and not being able to return home. $325.00 and it comes with one collar, I purchased the second collar for my female for $125.00.
Sorry to hear you got rid of your furbabies because of digging through the fence...that had to crush your heart.
I did that same thing in Montana to keep them from climbing the chain link fence. When they started tunneling under I was over it. I treat my dogs very well and if they don't want to stay in their yard to hell with them. They have run of the house via a dog door and I am home all day so it isn't like they were lonely. It was very easy for me to get rid of them at that point. I found both excellent homes which made it even easier. The female went to be a 5 day a week sole companion of a woman who worked in Nebraska during the week and went home to Wyoming on the weekend. The male went to someone who runs a doggy day care. He used to love going to "puppy camp" when we would do vacations so it was a perfect spot for him. He got to go play with the boys during the day and was the top dog at home at night.
My current house has a lot better yard. But my lab and current beagle were still digging although not to get out. Just for the sure love of digging, until I had bigger rock put in (yard is xeriscaped) Cost me about 700 bux but dogs don't dig no more.
 
pezenfuego

pezenfuego

Active Member
Whoa whoa whoa! Are you telling me that news channels are biased and add spin to stories? I'm sorry, now you're just being ridiculous.
Honestly though, thanks for sharing that Darth. That's very interesting and clearly there is a lot of misinformation about this topic.
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
I don't think that it is right to ban pit bulls. I think that anybody who gets any animal assumes a certain level of risk... it's a personal choice and there's no need for government interference. But I think about in terms of whether I would ever have one or support a family member or friend getting one.
Just a simple question to the people supporting pits...
Do you actually think that they are not more aggressive than most (if not all) other breeds?
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508156
I don't think that it is right to ban pit bulls. I think that anybody who gets any animal assumes a certain level of risk... it's a personal choice and there's no need for government interference. But I think about in terms of whether I would ever have one or support a family member or friend getting one.
Just a simple question to the people supporting pits...
Do you actually think that they are not more aggressive than most (if not all) other breeds?
Ankle biting yip dogs are way more aggressive but they don't do any damage so you don't hear about it. I've heard that from the aspect of 3 family members who did home delivery of bottled water as well as seen it for myself working as a milk man for a couple years in my youth. I do believe pits are more aggressive towards other dogs. I've seen it with one of two that were in the family and several others friends have owned over the years, most being well before all the hype about them came into play. Most of the owners I've known were very careful about introducing their pits to new dog buddies. I only remember one who didn't want his dogs around people they didn't know.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508156
Just a simple question to the people supporting pits...
Do you actually think that they are not more aggressive than most (if not all) other breeds?
I'm going to say yes, BUT, only when they need to be. Can they kick some serious ass? You betcha! Which is why a lot of folks who maybe live in high crime areas want them for protection or their intimidation factor. Speaking about my own pit/mix in the most unbias way that I can, I would have no reservation about raising a family around this dog after owner her, whatsoever. And here's why...
I actually have 3 dogs currently, but have owned and been around them all my life. And I will say she's one of the best I've ever had as an all around dog. Meaning, loving, loyal and playful with just the right amount of a protective qualities about her.
We have a Dane as well. The dane has a one track mind and loves to play but can be very stubborn sometimes. Our pit mix (who's characteristics are mostly pit) is much more controlled, also loves to play but listens a lot better. She's also much more keenly aware of what's going on around her, us or the property. And when a stranger comes by, she turns into the protector. The dane would be the first one to tell a burglar where all of the good stuff is hid if she thought that she might get a treat out of the deal. Where as the pit/mix would not let anyone into the house that they don't know. Friends or family that the dog knows are totally fine. But they both come with special needs. And the two of them together requires that they understand who is in control of things around here. Other wise they think they can do whatever they want, when they want and that's just not going to happen in this house.
See the thing about pit's is that they make excellent guard dogs which is why they are sought after by folks who maybe live in higher crime ridden areas for that reason. But the really great thing about them (which some might not realize) is that they make excellent guard dogs without having to teach them to be killers. And that they excel in all of the other areas that make a dog great where other dogs fall way short. They've earned a reputation. Some of it is deserved but mostly is because of us.
Big dogs should require big decisions to be made. What works in my house might not work in yours. And any dog of any breed (even the same) can be like night and day from one persons house to the next. It's a big responsibility to you, your family and the community.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508188
Would you bring a 4 or 5 year old rescue into a house with kids?
If it was the dog that I have then yes, I would have no reservations about it. But I'm not going to make that choice for another persons parent and therefor if somebody ever did come over to my house with young kids (which never happens) then I would put the dogs away or make sure they are separated until the dog and the child had a chance to really know eachother and understand who they are when they see them.
We had dogs when I was a kid, I've owned them for several years by myself and during the years when I didn't have them, most of my friends and family did. My dad has 6 right now lol.
But I feel like I know how to chose a better dog these days than I used to. I don't go by the breed or what the statistics say. I judge a dog when I see it and socialize with it. I want to see a dog that's alert to what is going on around it and not the most aggressive one of the bunch. And I want to see a loving quality of possible. Like looking for the right woman I suppose, they have to have a little bit of everything. After 30+ years I feel like I know a good dog when I see one. All of mine now are rescues because I personally think many of them can make thee best pets. You're looking for something that seemingly appears to appreciate you. I may have the runt of the litter but at least she's not the over aggressive alpha. I am
With the same great qualities.
I would never judge or recommend a dog to anyone because I know that I cannot make that choice for them. But I've met some pits that I would have no problem being around because I've seen members of my own family and friends kids around these types of breed and never heard of anything fatal or extreme.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/40#post_3508196
If it's a credible rescue they do an extensive job of screening the dogs. You never know even with a dog you raised yourself 100 percent how they will act in a certain situation but these people tend to know there stuff.
Too many variables. Dogs I think do best when they are socialized or have a companion. If we isolate them then they become more unpredictable in certain situations because they don't have much experience. So if you couple a dog who is curious with a human child whom is curious but possibly terrified of the dog it's anybody's guess as to what could happen cause dogs feed off of that.
If I were in Crimzy's shoes, a young strapping stud in the prime of his life, single and taking care of his kids while working a career in the law field then I would not go for a dog that requires a huge amount of time and attention to be perfectly satisfied with it's life as a dog in his world. I think he's on the right track for looking for a mature dog, definitely fixed ( no questions about this) and something that appears to be comfortable with him and his kids when they meet it. If it bites your hand when you feed it then don't adopt it.
You're rolling the dice no matter what, as when any relationship.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
If I were in Crimzy's shoes I wouldn't have a dog period. I'd be too busy chasing tail on my non kid weeks to pay attention to a dog.
 
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