Pitbulls... Let's have the debate.

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/60#post_3508386
Owning any dog is similar to owning a gun. The owner has to take precautions to protect the public and so on. Small dogs are like owning a bb gun...while dangerous in the right circumstance, they are over all essentially harmless. Large dogs are similar to hand guns and various rifles. Pits, Dobermans, rottwielers, german Shepards and a few other breeds are the dog equivalent to assault rifles. In the wrong hands very dangerous. In the right hands..no problem.
I have owned two "pit" bulls. One we got as a puppy. another we rescued that had been involved with attacking and harming another dog while running loose. Neither dog under our care ever bit, us, my children, the neighbors, or other animals. You want a domesticated animal....YOU have to take and have the time to domesticate it.
Well said.

 

[2quills]

Even in the right hands (whatever that means) it's never a good idea to not fix your pets and then just let them run wild in the back yard.
I remember an old g/f of mine had a husky/shep mix. Was a sweet and awesome dog. But a few times a year he'd smell what was cooking in the air and he wasnt trying to hear anything humans said to him. He could leap fences like no bodies business. Fortunately he was fixed.

 

[beth]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/60#post_3508386
I have owned two "pit" bulls. One we got as a puppy. another we rescued that had been involved with attacking and harming another dog while running loose. Neither dog under our care ever bit, us, my children, the neighbors, or other animals. You want a domesticated animal....YOU have to take and have the time to domesticate it.
What is your strategy for training a pit bull?

 

[gkat66]

Darthtang,you are correct ! Any breed can be untrustworthy ,and it is up to the owner to keep others and their pets safe. In the rescues in our area over 95 % of the dogs are pits or pit mixes , mostly because so many people refuse to get their animals spayed or neutered, which is a crime in my mind. I have owned many breeds of dogs in my life, mixes and purebreds, my pitbulls are my favorite. The protective nature that we love in our pits is also the trait that can cause the most problems if not handled properly. This breed is not for everyone,if you can't be the "leader of the pack" and devote time to socialize and train them,don't get one. If you can ,you will be rewarded with a loving ,trustworthy friend for life. Our pits were raised with other dogs ,cats, chickens,cows and horses, and came to work with me as puppies, they have NEVER displayed aggression to anyone or any other animal.That said , I would have to think long and hard before adopting an adult pit or pit mix, any adult dog for that matter, from a rescue if I had small children.
Sadly the only thing that will fix the pits reputation is when they are no longer a "popular" breed to have, and by the way ,the only dog in the family that ever bit ,was my Aunt's scotty mix ,who bit 7 family members.

 

[flower]

My German Shepherd is not fixed...the only time he made puppies is with my female...LOL, I did have her spayed after that one litter, but only because puppies are too much for me with my health issues. I disagree it should be a crime to not "fix" your animals. It is however a crime to let your pooch run free and wild. I use a radio wave invisible fence...no jumping fences for my fur-baby.
GKAT66...if any dog of mine bit even 1 family member, it would be put down. 7 family members???? No way would that dog get a chance after the first time. In an extreme circumstance, if it was a visiting family member and they did something to justify a bite...a kid trying to rip off the ears would qualify...the dog wouldn't get a second chance, it would be put in a safe area when others visit....every time. It wouldn't matter what the dogs breed.
A pit-bull is not a stupid dog, they are trained with the same loving care any pet is trained. The goal is to teach Fido to listen to you, and like any pet make sure they are protected from getting hit by cars or terrorizing neighbors....no dog, no matter how large or small, mean or docile, should be running around the neighborhood...period. All family members should be 100% safe round the family pet. There are dogs (of any breed) that seem really dense in the brain department...like any retarded fur-baby, you have to make sure they are safe, and not hurting others if they are aggressive to strangers or other animals. Dumbest dog I ever owned was a black Cocker spaniel we called Dudley...he wasn't mean, but he was just stupid beyond belief.

 

[reefraff]

Where I live it's 55.00 to license your dog. If it's fixed it's 5.00. If your dog or cat has a litter you are supposed to pay a litter fee which is 125.00. One thing they do here which I really love is subject cats to the same rules as dogs. Must be licensed and under your control. No stray cats, at least not many.

 

[gkat66]

Flower you are a responsible dog owner,but many others are not, and sometimes dogs escape. I too raised puppies at one time, collies, but it is a fact that animals that are not fixed and not being used for breeding purposes are more prone to heath and emotional problems due to hormones than animals that are fixed. As far as my Aunt's devil dog,she never had children and treated the dog like a baby, he ruled her world, most family members did'nt report the bites because the dog would have been destroyed. Unfortunatly she didn't get many visitors until the dog died, because she refused to lock him up.

 

[flower]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/80#post_3508402
Where I live it's 55.00 to license your dog. If it's fixed it's 5.00. If your dog or cat has a litter you are supposed to pay a litter fee which is 125.00. One thing they do here which I really love is subject cats to the same rules as dogs. Must be licensed and under your control. No stray cats, at least not many.
I agree, cats are a much bigger problem, because keeping a cat at home in the house 24/7 or on your own property is near impossible. They do make a wave fence for cats too. I just had my Atticus taken in for his 3 year Rabie shot...$125.00 for the city fee and $61.00 for the shot...if he was fixed I would only pay the $61.00.
Once every 3 years he costs me, I don't mind, even though he is turning 8 this July and not fit for breeding anymore, I will not get him fixed. He is my home protector, and I don't want him more docile. He is great with MY family, but bad guys would have to shoot him before they could hurt one of us.

 

[darthtang aw]

What is your strategy for training a pit bull?
It is no different than any other dog I have ever owned. However all my dogs are socialized very early...Socialization is the largest factor in this. It teaches the dog that everyday people, dogs, creatures and events are just that...normal. There is no need for aggression. my dogs can be off leash and will never wander off from me. They also will heed silent commands. I assert myself and my human family as top of the pack. Any aggression within my dog family is quickly stopped by a family member. We do not tolerate or put up with aggression towards family members, be they dogs or humans....when I say aggression I mean barking, growling...etc... I have NEVER had one of my dogs bite anyone.

 

[crimzy]

OK, question for you all...
If you were looking for a rescue, and you found a dog that appeared healthy, up-to-date on shots, clean coat, eyes etc, and if the dog appeared happy and gentle, would finding out that the dog had likely been abused previously prevent you from getting it?
I saw a dog at a rescue ealier... it was described to me as a sharpei mixed with a Shiba Inu but kind of just looked like a lab mutt. Anyway, I was told that the dog has always been perfect with visitors of the shelter, loves other dogs, fine with cats, etc, however when the staff raises a hand, the dog cowers as if it's going to be hit? The staff suggested that the dog may have been abused previously, and it came to the shelter with an embedded collar.
Thoughts?

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/80#post_3508428
OK, question for you all...
If you were looking for a rescue, and you found a dog that appeared healthy, up-to-date on shots, clean coat, eyes etc, and if the dog appeared happy and gentle, would finding out that the dog had likely been abused previously prevent you from getting it?
I saw a dog at a rescue ealier... it was described to me as a sharpei mixed with a Shiba Inu but kind of just looked like a lab mutt. Anyway, I was told that the dog has always been perfect with visitors of the shelter, loves other dogs, fine with cats, etc, however when the staff raises a hand, the dog cowers as if it's going to be hit? The staff suggested that the dog may have been abused previously, and it came to the shelter with an embedded collar.
Thoughts?
I would not take the chance with children in the house

 

[2quills]

I on the other hand think that could be a great dog for you guys. Those dogs can be the most appreciate and caring dogs there are.

 

[darthtang aw]

I would not take the chance with children in the house
Why? The dog is clearly submissive. Submissives are flight before fight. This is the kind of dog that will NEVER bite anyone or anything.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/80#post_3508437
Why? The dog is clearly submissive. Submissives are flight before fight. This is the kind of dog that will NEVER bite anyone or anything.
If its been abused, who knows what it was subjected to in the past? I know from my own experiences that even the most docile dogs can go into fight mode if cornered, and that is something that can and does happen with kids around. Is it really worth taking a chance with it when kids are involved? He can do whatever he pleases, but for me, I wouldnt take that chance with a dog I didnt raise from a puppy until my kids were quite a bit older.

 

[darthtang aw]

If its been abused, who knows what it was subjected to in the past?  I know from my own experiences that even the most docile dogs can go into fight mode if cornered, and that is something that can and does happen with kids around.  Is it really worth taking a chance with it when kids are involved?  He can do whatever he pleases, but for me, I wouldnt take that chance with a dog I didnt raise from a puppy until my kids were quite a bit older.
If a hand is raised and the dog cowers and whimpers....the odds are less likely it will snap and lash out even more so than a dog raised from a puppy. Most abused dogs accept the punishment...hence the term abuse.It is similar to abused women and children...they tend to not ever lash out.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/80#post_3508448
If a hand is raised and the dog cowers and whimpers....the odds are less likely it will snap and lash out even more so than a dog raised from a puppy. Most abused dogs accept the punishment...hence the term abuse.It is similar to abused women and children...they tend to not ever lash out.
Feel free to put the safety of your kids at risk. All I'm saying is that I wouldnt do it.

 

[darthtang aw]

Feel free to put the safety of your kids at risk.  All I'm saying is that I wouldnt do it.
You put the safety of your kids at risk everyday. I love when people resort to the argument implying my view is bad parenting. It shows a lack of understanding. It also shows a lack of parenting on their part to a degree. But that is a totally different discussion.

 

[dragonzim]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/80#post_3508452
You put the safety of your kids at risk everyday. I love when people resort to the argument implying my view is bad parenting. It shows a lack of understanding. It also shows a lack of parenting on their part to a degree. But that is a totally different discussion.
Dude, I couldnt give 2 f*cks about your parenting, and how dare you question mine when you dont know a thing about me. And yes, we do put the safety of our kids at risk everyday, but I for one choose not to introduce one more risk than is absolutely necessary, and regardless of how you try to spin it, a dog that has a past history of abuse IS a risk.

 

[darthtang aw]

but I for one choose not to introduce one more risk than is absolutely necessary, and regardless of how you try to spin it, a dog that has a past history of abuse IS a risk.
No more then allowing your kids to play sports......................
And you did question my parenting. Otherwise you wouldn't have felt the need to comment with " YOU put your kids safety at risk". Is that noit what you stated? Implying I put my children at risk....which is an indirect attack on parenting....

 

[beth]

Speaking of only keeping a dog who has been raised since puppy. What about the supposed emotional issues dogs have that the so-called puppy mill breeders sell?
I would agree that a cowering dog is not likely to get aggressive. And likely once that dog has a loving home that s/he feels is caring and safe, the fear of abuse will subside.