Pitbulls... Let's have the debate.

2quills

Well-Known Member
If the dog that Crimzy is looking at truely displays the characteristics as describes then he would be taking a whole lot of guess work out of the situation. JMO
And besides most folks who work or donate their time to shelters arent looking to pawn pets off to people that they dont feel comfortable would be a good fit. They will typically tell you about their quarks because most wouldnt want to put a dog through something like that again.
Much safer bet then buying a pet from the guy down the street who just happens to be selling on. This way you can ask or even see about thier social behavior.
 

crimzy

Active Member
I think you're both right. On hand, having a dog in "panic" mode around people can pose a risk with the family. A really nervous animal could misinterpret any fast movement or play in the wrong way. However if the dog is already showing signs of being submissive, you do know that the dog is not going to grow up trying to be alpha male. I may take the kids to meet the dog and see how he interacts with them... he seemed very happy, go-lucky with me.
There is always an element of risk and we all want to keep our families safe but it's still just a judgment call. I like the idea of actually rescuing an animal that's had a tough life.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508495
I may take the kids to meet the dog and see how he interacts with them... he seemed very happy, go-lucky with me.
And you were a stranger. Sounds more like a lover than a fighter to me. Good dog for kids. I think the cowering thing could easily go away once it's learned that it can trust you and that not all humans are bad. Just takes a little time and some more than others.
 

tthemadd1

Active Member
I saw the same numbers but also saw another site with much lower numbers. Dog attacks resulting in death for 2012 was only 38 in the US from another site.
Not sure what to believe. I know the same site posts 23 deaths were from Pit Bulls. Seems like mainly young children and elderly. Have to wonder if the dog was cared for and respected for its breed history.
My pit is the best do I have had out of mainly labs. She can be protective but has never bitten a human. We do care for her in a special manner. No rough playing, calm household, etc. she is on a lead at all times and we know how to socialize with other people and dogs.
People don't just enter our house. We let them in, behavior is related to how the dog is introduced.
If you mistreat or mistrain any dog they will act specifically as a result. Well trained animals are still animals for a reason.
I say if your level of responsibility and care is high go pit, otherwise fish can be a great pet.
Cheers
 

tthemadd1

Active Member
Just read the last parts.
No. A dog cowering is not necessarily submissive as well as not a true sign of long term nature. It could be scared of the environment and totally different once in the home for a period.
I would be hesitant and understand that children with a uneasy dog can create an environment where cues can be misunderstood resulting in a bite.
 

gkat66

New Member
My Golden Retriever that I've raised from a pup will flinch at sudden movements. He has Never been hit or yelled at ,he's just a very sensative dog,that will retreat if he's startled rather than get aggressive. I think Crimzy should take the kids to visit the dog,and just watch the reactions,while some dogs love adults they my be afraid of kids. Tell your children to act naturally around the dog and engage in some playing if the dog acts like it wants to escape look for another dog. It's wonderful that you want to give a rescue a home, and you can find a great family friend ,it just takes time and common sense.
 

tthemadd1

Active Member
One thing about my dog. Always take a multifaceted view. When the weather is bad and we don't walk daily she can get hyper and start running around to wear off energy. When she does this she seems a little vacant. During these times we slow her down by focusing her attention on commands. Kids tend to get excited easily and I would think that playing to rough could cause issue. Dogs in general don't draw a line they only react to lines or commands given.
As I am a pit lover I feel the proper responsible position is to keep aggressives with calm and responsible adults.
Make your decision and live with it. My family did, daughter is 17, and treat the dog as it should be treated. Loved but cautiously responsible
 

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthemadd1 http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508552
One thing about my dog. Always take a multifaceted view. When the weather is bad and we don't walk daily she can get hyper and start running around to wear off energy. When she does this she seems a little vacant. During these times we slow her down by focusing her attention on commands. Kids tend to get excited easily and I would think that playing to rough could cause issue. Dogs in general don't draw a line they only react to lines or commands given.
As I am a pit lover I feel the proper responsible position is to keep aggressives with calm and responsible adults.
Make your decision and live with it. My family did, daughter is 17, and treat the dog as it should be treated. Loved but cautiously responsible
My German shepherd Atticus won't play with me, I can toss a ball but he would never play wrestle with me, even as a pup...not tug of war...nothing, he will play "chase me for the toy" with the grand-kids, and won't trot any faster than they can run, but with a certain male family friend he really gets going and wrestles and growls playing like a crazy dog. Yet if I even lay down beside him, he will get up and move to lay at my feet instead. He will put his head on my lap to be petted and loved on, but I have call him because he won't engage unless he knows I want him...like he doesn't want to bother me. He watches me as I sleep, and if my breathing pattern changes, he wakes me up. I have severe sleep apnea and stop breathing 111xs an hour, I found out after tests...before then I didn't know why he woke me up every hour on the hour, I thought he had a weak bladder. I never trained him for that, he just does it. I use a Bi-Pap machine now, and he and I both are getting better sleep.
He is aggressive towards all strangers, he does bite, and has done so, but always intruders who just walked into the house, and he won't even allow the children to play fight, he barks and gets between them.
Oh yes, I almost forgot...when he was 6 months old...He bit my husband over our granddaughter Amanda when she was 5. It was the funniest thing. He tried to grab Amanda away by grabbing her pant leg, but only managed to pull her little pants off, all the while she was laughing hysterically and crying stop to Granddaddy...pants in his mouth...he realized he couldn't grab anyplace else to help her, so he bit my husband on the butt...Just a nip to let him know that when kids laugh and cry stop, it means stop.... Dan stopped instantly and grabbed his rear, turning around to face the dog...who dropped his head and went to the nearest corner to stand in...he thought he was hiding. It's hard to get mad at a dog who protects the grand-kids from an adult, even an adult he considered his master.
He is turning 8 this July, and I have had him since he was 10 weeks old. He was growly at strangers since we got him. The lady at our puppy training classes said she had never seen a growly puppy, and that I would always have to take precautions with him...she told me he was afraid, and would be a fear biter. Oddly Atticus could care less about other dogs, but Tamerah my female, has already gone after one small dog, she mouthed it but released it on command. So I know she can't be trusted with other animals.
My dogs are aggressive, and over protective. I take extra care to make sure my dogs and all the neighbors are safe. Having an aggressive dog means being extra careful, but that doesn't mean you can keep them....but you have to stay on your toes at all times, and never forget that "Fido, who is great with the family" is dangerous to strangers.
 

crimzy

Active Member
One thing about my dog. Always take a multifaceted view. When the weather is bad and we don't walk daily she can get hyper and start running around to wear off energy. When she does this she seems a little vacant. During these times we slow her down by focusing her attention on commands. Kids tend to get excited easily and I would think that playing to rough could cause issue. Dogs in general don't draw a line they only react to lines or commands given.
As I am a pit lover I feel the proper responsible position is to keep aggressives with calm and responsible adults.
Make your decision and live with it. My family did, daughter is 17, and treat the dog as it should be treated. Loved but cautiously responsible
Sounds like you're living with a loaded gun on the kitchen table...
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a purple tang in a 55g tank lol. Just messin.
All dogs get wound up when they arent getting enough exercise or attention. Especially big ones in their youth.
Ugh...one of our office girls just asked if the wife and I would take in this beautifull little english bull dog puppy that her friend gave her. AKC papers and all. Cant do it, gotta be strong. Im such a sucker for this stuff.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508584
Sounds like a purple tang in a 55g tank lol. Just messin.
All dogs get wound up when they arent getting enough exercise or attention. Especially big ones in their youth.
Ugh...one of our office girls just asked if the wife and I would take in this beautifull little english bull dog puppy that her friend gave her. AKC papers and all. Cant do it, gotta be strong. Im such a sucker for this stuff.
Nice gift. Around here those things are expensive.
 

tthemadd1

Active Member
Loaded gun? I doubt it. It's just a matter of knowing the breed and understanding the limitations. Point is I know many people with families and pits. I just don't want to PUT my animal in a bad position by being selfish. If I wanted a dog that could roam the neighborhood I would have gotten a lab, if I wanted a spoiled lap dog that's what I would have bought, etc. so loaded gun on the table? Yes with a trigger lock and an educated family.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508595
Nice gift. Around here those things are expensive.
$1800 a pop, apparently is what her friends father breeds and sells them for. A gift from her second family (so to speak) to try and cheer her up after the messy divorce she and her kids have been through. But she wants nothing to really do with the dog. She claims she refused it as a gift several time (rolls eyes). She must not have refused it very much because she signed a paper for her friends father claiming she would never breed the dog.
But I don't know. The wife just brought some news to my attention towards the end of the day that isn't good. And this dog could end up getting a really bum deal because she's probably fixing to get fired and tossed out on her keister or arrested here real quick. Missing money, on somebodies watch is never a good thing.
For what the dog is worth I'm half tempted to get it from her in the morning before she is confronted and find the little guy a new home, myself. Might be some opoortunity to help a dog and make some money? What would you guys do? She's been trying to pawn the dog off to other family and friends but that's almost a sure fire bet that this dog is going to wind up with a screwed up life.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508621
$1800 a pop, apparently is what her friends father breeds and sells them for. A gift from her second family (so to speak) to try and cheer her up after the messy divorce she and her kids have been through. But she wants nothing to really do with the dog. She claims she refused it as a gift several time (rolls eyes). She must not have refused it very much because she signed a paper for her friends father claiming she would never breed the dog.
But I don't know. The wife just brought some news to my attention towards the end of the day that isn't good. And this dog could end up getting a really bum deal because she's probably fixing to get fired and tossed out on her keister or arrested here real quick. Missing money, on somebodies watch is never a good thing.
For what the dog is worth I'm half tempted to get it from her in the morning before she is confronted and find the little guy a new home, myself. Might be some opoortunity to help a dog and make some money? What would you guys do? She's been trying to pawn the dog off to other family and friends but that's almost a sure fire bet that this dog is going to wind up with a screwed up life.
I'd do it if your first priority is a good home. Making money doing a good deed isn't a bad thing.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by tthemadd1 http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508620
Loaded gun? I doubt it. It's just a matter of knowing the breed and understanding the limitations. Point is I know many people with families and pits. I just don't want to PUT my animal in a bad position by being selfish. If I wanted a dog that could roam the neighborhood I would have gotten a lab, if I wanted a spoiled lap dog that's what I would have bought, etc. so loaded gun on the table? Yes with a trigger lock and an educated family.

Beautiful, female?
How can you not love those faces...
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508622
I'd do it if your first priority is a good home. Making money doing a good deed isn't a bad thing.
At this point it's 50/50. My first thoughts when I heard she was trying to find it a home, I immediately felt concerned for the dog. And then when I heard about how much they cost and the papers along with the missing money thing at work, I'll be honest and say that I started seeing a few dollar signs.
Am I wrong for being so judgmental? This lady's kids are mostly all grown, her youngest two that still live with her are 17 and her other daughter is 20, works at a strip club, has had a few issues with drugs and has a child that she's barely taking care of as it is (no father in sight). This dogs chances don't look too promising for the forseable future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508632
Dog on the couch? Not with a saint, lol....

Here's the dog from the rescue...

Yep. Only time those dogs have been allowed on the couch was right after they had a bath, were dry and before they had a chance to go back outside (per the wife lol). She's banished them from being inside of the new house on a regular basis. We've designated the sun room off of the back of the house as their room for a while where we keep their kennels, food, water and chew toys.
Because THIIIS! Was not happening anymore lol...

And she's bigger now.
Did you take the kids to see the dog?
 

crimzy

Active Member
I love danes but that's an easy way to destroy a couch. I had one as a kid but my parents couldn't handle it.... some of my favorite dogs.
Edit* truly beautiful dog. You don't see many all black ones.
Haven't taken the kids yet. The weekdays are crazy so I'm thinking maybe Saturday.
 

2quills

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by crimzy http:///t/394151/pitbulls-lets-have-the-debate/100#post_3508637
I love danes but that's an easy way to destroy a couch. I had one as a kid but my parents couldn't handle it.... some of my favorite dogs.
Haven't taken the kids yet. The weekdays are crazy so I'm thinking maybe Saturday.
Cool, good luck.
That one there (the dane) is a handful. I probably wouldn't recommend them to a lot of people. The wife and I don't have kids in the house. The dogs are our kids and I get taxed sometimes between work, the house, the dogs and trying to have at least some personal time with the wife. I think there's a dog or dogs out there for every situation and it's clear that there are more than enough dogs to go around, probably too many. But since we can't have kids then our animals are pretty much our pack. And it's probably why we're are such suckers for rescues. Although, some rescues may not be such a good idea for everyone. Perhaps I am just judgmental even though I mean it in the most non-personal way possible.
 

reefraff

Active Member
If I didn't live so far away I'd buy the bulldog pup if the deal was right of course LOL!. Our house is "lived in" so I don't care about the mess.
If I were you I'd take it and just see how things go. You might just decide it needs to stay with you but if not make sure it gets to a good home.
 
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