scopus tang
Active Member
Plenum or Insanity?
- Thread starter florida joe
- Start date
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2575454
I hear you, he's pretty cool. I'd be real curious to know how long he survived in the refugium at the LFS? Makes me wonder if the little guy really is a algae eater. Heck, maybe it eats Aiptasia anemones, Lord knows there was enough on that Caulerpa to keep him alive for a long, long time! BTW, did you decide on a positive I.D. on the Caulerpa or just decide to chuck it?
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http:///forum/post/2575454
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florida joe
Well-Known Member
Actually I still have the caulerpa believe it or not there are only four aptasia that I can see. I may just leave it in my QT for now and when I get mad just take remove one aptasia out and smash it (therapy) . As far as identification the two species Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa prolifera are so similar looking. I just don’t know. I may just have to bring some to the wild life conservatory here and see what they can tell me
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2575518
I may just leave it in my QT for now and when I get mad just take remove one aptasia out and smash it (therapy) .
Oh my goodness, those poor defensless Aiptasia anemones! How could you be so cruel?
Sounds like good thearapy to me! I also counted only four on your picture, but they do spread like wildfire when conditions are right.
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2575518
As far as identification the two species Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa prolifera are so similar looking. I just don’t know. I may just have to bring some to the wild life conservatory here and see what they can tell me
Too hard to say from the pictures, wildlife conservatory should be able to tell you for sure ~ course if it is brachypus, they're going to want you to dispose of it.
http:///forum/post/2575518
I may just leave it in my QT for now and when I get mad just take remove one aptasia out and smash it (therapy) .
Oh my goodness, those poor defensless Aiptasia anemones! How could you be so cruel?
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2575518
As far as identification the two species Caulerpa brachypus and Caulerpa prolifera are so similar looking. I just don’t know. I may just have to bring some to the wild life conservatory here and see what they can tell me
Too hard to say from the pictures, wildlife conservatory should be able to tell you for sure ~ course if it is brachypus, they're going to want you to dispose of it.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2575538
Oh my goodness, those poor defensless Aiptasia anemones! How could you be so cruel?
Sounds like good thearapy to me! I also counted only four on your picture, but they do spread like wildfire when conditions are right.
Too hard to say from the pictures, wildlife conservatory should be able to tell you for sure ~ course if it is brachypus, they're going to want you to dispose of it.
as I should My LFS has enough in his refug do some real damage on the coastline. I pary its the type native to Florida
http:///forum/post/2575538
Oh my goodness, those poor defensless Aiptasia anemones! How could you be so cruel?
Too hard to say from the pictures, wildlife conservatory should be able to tell you for sure ~ course if it is brachypus, they're going to want you to dispose of it.
as I should My LFS has enough in his refug do some real damage on the coastline. I pary its the type native to Florida
baloo6969
Member
I guess it's late, but i have a plenum in my fuge.
At first i thought it was risky business. Some books i read said to have one in your DT...i guess this would work if you had a layer of screen very close to the surface...and didnt have any burring fish/critters. if not you would have to constantly re-grade the sand to cover the screen...not worth it IMO.
I used the egg crate and DSB in my fuge while growing macro algae. it's about a 12x12' area, and ~4 inchs's high. i used a very thin layer of CC over the first layer of screen(over the Plenum. then about a 2 inch layer of sand, screen then another 2 inch's of sand. then another screen, with about a 1/2 inch layer.
at first i was nervous, worrying that it would crash, or the plenum was filling with toxic gas's. So after about 2 months of restless nights "a friend" working at a hospital pilfered a VERY LONG syringe(used to get into the internal organs for large people he said) anyway...it was small enough to pierce the sand and screen, i took an air sample from down under....NO SMELL I did this every 2 months. and stopped after about a year....no problems.
For the longest time i was having problems with my RO unit, and the tap water's nitrate level was ~40, short of toting gallons of water from the LFS, i chose to use the tap...yea yea yea, very bad i know. but i have stopped this bad behavior. Before topping off my 5g/day every 2 days evap, the nitrates would be down around 30~35...clearly NNR was occurring...but me dumping in the 40 every 2 days jacked it back up, and it never really went down. Until i switched to RO water.
I can happily say, my nitrates hold at a steady 0.
Empirically i can say that the Plenum IS working as it should. I separated the DT from the fuge for 2 weeks. I removed the macro algae, and all crabs and snails. and placed a PH in the fuge to move the water around. then i placed 2 large shrimp(that sat out 2 days) ROTTEN!! into the fuge. 2 weeks later, the shrimp was completely broken down, 0 amm, 0 no2, 0 NITRATES!!!
a word of advice. This apparently is common knowledge to some. I was naive. But the fuge WILL get very dirty, and will become a nitrate factory. at first i thought it was the plenum crashing...i got POed and started braking the fuge down. I started shopvacing the right and left chamers out...then it hit me...the smell. Turns out it was not my DSB/Plenum dieing, it was the sludge.
SO! make sure you have a layer of screen close to the top of the sand, with a thin layer of sand...and toss in some crabs, snails, and other things...I'd stay away from stars or anything that will dig TOO deep. who knows, they may figure out a way in under the layers, and wont get out.
At first i thought it was risky business. Some books i read said to have one in your DT...i guess this would work if you had a layer of screen very close to the surface...and didnt have any burring fish/critters. if not you would have to constantly re-grade the sand to cover the screen...not worth it IMO.
I used the egg crate and DSB in my fuge while growing macro algae. it's about a 12x12' area, and ~4 inchs's high. i used a very thin layer of CC over the first layer of screen(over the Plenum. then about a 2 inch layer of sand, screen then another 2 inch's of sand. then another screen, with about a 1/2 inch layer.
at first i was nervous, worrying that it would crash, or the plenum was filling with toxic gas's. So after about 2 months of restless nights "a friend" working at a hospital pilfered a VERY LONG syringe(used to get into the internal organs for large people he said) anyway...it was small enough to pierce the sand and screen, i took an air sample from down under....NO SMELL I did this every 2 months. and stopped after about a year....no problems.
For the longest time i was having problems with my RO unit, and the tap water's nitrate level was ~40, short of toting gallons of water from the LFS, i chose to use the tap...yea yea yea, very bad i know. but i have stopped this bad behavior. Before topping off my 5g/day every 2 days evap, the nitrates would be down around 30~35...clearly NNR was occurring...but me dumping in the 40 every 2 days jacked it back up, and it never really went down. Until i switched to RO water.
I can happily say, my nitrates hold at a steady 0.
Empirically i can say that the Plenum IS working as it should. I separated the DT from the fuge for 2 weeks. I removed the macro algae, and all crabs and snails. and placed a PH in the fuge to move the water around. then i placed 2 large shrimp(that sat out 2 days) ROTTEN!! into the fuge. 2 weeks later, the shrimp was completely broken down, 0 amm, 0 no2, 0 NITRATES!!!
a word of advice. This apparently is common knowledge to some. I was naive. But the fuge WILL get very dirty, and will become a nitrate factory. at first i thought it was the plenum crashing...i got POed and started braking the fuge down. I started shopvacing the right and left chamers out...then it hit me...the smell. Turns out it was not my DSB/Plenum dieing, it was the sludge.
SO! make sure you have a layer of screen close to the top of the sand, with a thin layer of sand...and toss in some crabs, snails, and other things...I'd stay away from stars or anything that will dig TOO deep. who knows, they may figure out a way in under the layers, and wont get out.
baloo6969
Member
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Randy it looks like my refug box is out for delivery so I will post a pic some time tonight. I want to run something by you. In much as I am on the gulf side of the state and 10 min from the beach I get to go there almost every day. I have always noticed that at the high tide mark when the water recedes that there is an abundance of broken shells bits of coral and small rubble rock. Using your modified plenum idea I am kicking around the idea of my plenum then mud then going with a thin layer of the tide line wash up on top of my mud it will be loose enough for the Caulerpa to root also mud burrowing critters to get through this may help in keeping the mud from getting stirred up. Any thoughts?
Joe
Joe
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by baloo6969
http:///forum/post/2576357
Attachment 196710
Here's a pic of my sump/fuge...
Thanks for the info and for joining our discussion. I will digest your info and comment on it latter but I have a question for now. It looks like you are using a recirculating skimmer, how do you like it also it seems your influent and effluent water to and from your skimmer is coming from the same place is that so?
http:///forum/post/2576357
Attachment 196710
Here's a pic of my sump/fuge...
Thanks for the info and for joining our discussion. I will digest your info and comment on it latter but I have a question for now. It looks like you are using a recirculating skimmer, how do you like it also it seems your influent and effluent water to and from your skimmer is coming from the same place is that so?
scopus tang
Active Member
baloo6969, welcome to the discussion. Since everything we've discussed at this point, at least in regards to Joe's fuge is hypothetical, you input is hardly late, and emphasizes several of the factors we've been discussing, such as the inclusion of burrowing organisms in the sandbed. Since you've actually worked with a plenum in a fuge, your continued input would indeed be invaluable.
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2576374
Randy it looks like my refug box is out for delivery so I will post a pic some time tonight. I want to run something by you. In much as I am on the gulf side of the state and 10 min from the beach I get to go there almost every day. I have always noticed that at the high tide mark when the water recedes that there is an abundance of broken shells bits of coral and small rubble rock. Using your modified plenum idea I am kicking around the idea of my plenum then mud then going with a thin layer of the tide line wash up on top of my mud it will be loose enough for the Caulerpa to root also mud burrowing critters to get through this may help in keeping the mud from getting stirred up. Any thoughts?
Joe
Joe, I would tend to agree that this may indeed help reduce the stirring of the mud. Don't know if you are familiar with substance referred to as Grunge; essentially, is is exactly what you describe; and is sold as a substance for seeding sandbeds. My concern with your direct ocean collection is the possibility of introduction of parasites, pollutants, or disease unintentionally into your system. Perhaps if your collected tide rubble was quarantined for a period of 6 weeks or so, you would be able to avoid most, if not all, of these issues
? It would certainly be cool to see what types of benefical organisms showed up in you fuge as a result of a direct ocean infusion.
Also been considering the influent questions on your sump; working on a sketch in paint that I will try to post a little later.
http:///forum/post/2576374
Randy it looks like my refug box is out for delivery so I will post a pic some time tonight. I want to run something by you. In much as I am on the gulf side of the state and 10 min from the beach I get to go there almost every day. I have always noticed that at the high tide mark when the water recedes that there is an abundance of broken shells bits of coral and small rubble rock. Using your modified plenum idea I am kicking around the idea of my plenum then mud then going with a thin layer of the tide line wash up on top of my mud it will be loose enough for the Caulerpa to root also mud burrowing critters to get through this may help in keeping the mud from getting stirred up. Any thoughts?
Joe
Joe, I would tend to agree that this may indeed help reduce the stirring of the mud. Don't know if you are familiar with substance referred to as Grunge; essentially, is is exactly what you describe; and is sold as a substance for seeding sandbeds. My concern with your direct ocean collection is the possibility of introduction of parasites, pollutants, or disease unintentionally into your system. Perhaps if your collected tide rubble was quarantined for a period of 6 weeks or so, you would be able to avoid most, if not all, of these issues
Also been considering the influent questions on your sump; working on a sketch in paint that I will try to post a little later.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Actually there is also a product that seeds mud, I was thinking of boiling the ruff material I get at the beach, just my luck I did not check the tide today great day but I was there at high tide, and then adding it to my refug
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2576704
Actually there is also a product that seeds mud, I was thinking of boiling the ruff material I get at the beach, just my luck I did not check the tide today great day bout I was there at high tide, and then adding it to my refug
See, you're one step ahead of me! Yes boiling or soaking in bleach either one should do the trick.
Ok, you'll have to excuse the crudeness of my diagram. The orange line represents the drilled PVC pipe you previously suggested, with the blue lines representing the direction of water flow. If you go with something like this, you're going to want your influent line at least a couple inches below the water level, otherwise evaporation will expose it and cause air bubble issues.
Also, we haven't discussed it yet, but how high is your middle seperator going to be? And are you going to baffle the ends or midline of your fuge?
http:///forum/post/2576704
Actually there is also a product that seeds mud, I was thinking of boiling the ruff material I get at the beach, just my luck I did not check the tide today great day bout I was there at high tide, and then adding it to my refug
See, you're one step ahead of me! Yes boiling or soaking in bleach either one should do the trick.
Ok, you'll have to excuse the crudeness of my diagram. The orange line represents the drilled PVC pipe you previously suggested, with the blue lines representing the direction of water flow. If you go with something like this, you're going to want your influent line at least a couple inches below the water level, otherwise evaporation will expose it and cause air bubble issues.
Also, we haven't discussed it yet, but how high is your middle seperator going to be? And are you going to baffle the ends or midline of your fuge?
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Well my refug box is here. Just to show every one my above average intellect I took a pic of a transparent object with no backing paper thats the cover leaning the box
To tired to get backing paper in this shot you can see the discharge hole its 1 &1/8 in diameter for a ½ inch PVC
This shot shows the cut out for the cover hole in the left side is for efluent hole in top left is for power cord if necessary Refugium box was $ 165. Including shipping from California, its acrylic ¼ inch thick. Which was the best price I got for a custom box
I sure pray I am a better refug builder then I am photographer
To tired to get backing paper in this shot you can see the discharge hole its 1 &1/8 in diameter for a ½ inch PVC
This shot shows the cut out for the cover hole in the left side is for efluent hole in top left is for power cord if necessary Refugium box was $ 165. Including shipping from California, its acrylic ¼ inch thick. Which was the best price I got for a custom box
I sure pray I am a better refug builder then I am photographer
scopus tang
Active Member
Alrighty then, lets get that baby plumbed in and set up! Almost as bad as waiting for a new shipment of coral.
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Ok how about this, on my influent pvc clue a union slip a fine mesh media bag over it zip tie the bag over the union to defuse water surge into the refug
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2576928
Ok how about this, no my influent pvc clue a union slip a fine mesh media bag over it zip tie the bag over the union to defuse water surge into the refug
I don't know ~ I'm not fond of the media bags, clog too easily with microalgaes. Did you check out post #52? I still like the idea of the drilled PVC pipe, just think we need to orientate (sp) it differently to make it work. height of divider between areas of the fuge?
http:///forum/post/2576928
Ok how about this, no my influent pvc clue a union slip a fine mesh media bag over it zip tie the bag over the union to defuse water surge into the refug
I don't know ~ I'm not fond of the media bags, clog too easily with microalgaes. Did you check out post #52? I still like the idea of the drilled PVC pipe, just think we need to orientate (sp) it differently to make it work. height of divider between areas of the fuge?
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2576918
Alrighty then, lets get that baby plumbed in and set up! Almost as bad as waiting for a new shipment of coral.
I need a shoehorn to get that baby in the cabinet so I will mock every thing up out side brake it down and install thinking of going with egg crate to support my screen for the plenum
http:///forum/post/2576918
Alrighty then, lets get that baby plumbed in and set up! Almost as bad as waiting for a new shipment of coral.
I need a shoehorn to get that baby in the cabinet so I will mock every thing up out side brake it down and install thinking of going with egg crate to support my screen for the plenum
scopus tang
Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2576940
I need a shoehorn to get that baby in the cabinet so I will mock every thing up out side brake it down and install thinking of going with egg crate to support my screen for the plenum
Wondered how easy it was going to be to get that in the cabinet. Decided against the CC or in addition to?
http:///forum/post/2576940
I need a shoehorn to get that baby in the cabinet so I will mock every thing up out side brake it down and install thinking of going with egg crate to support my screen for the plenum
florida joe
Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2576782
See, you're one step ahead of me! Yes boiling or soaking in bleach either one should do the trick.
Ok, you'll have to excuse the crudeness of my diagram. The orange line represents the drilled PVC pipe you previously suggested, with the blue lines representing the direction of water flow. If you go with something like this, you're going to want your influent line at least a couple inches below the water level, otherwise evaporation will expose it and cause air bubble issues.
Also, we haven't discussed it yet, but how high is your middle seperator going to be? And are you going to baffle the ends or midline of your fuge?
Actually I was thinking of elbowing the pvc as it enters the refug and the pvc with the holes would be perpendicular to the substraight, but thinking about it that may just give me surface skimming, S--T
http:///forum/post/2576782
See, you're one step ahead of me! Yes boiling or soaking in bleach either one should do the trick.
Ok, you'll have to excuse the crudeness of my diagram. The orange line represents the drilled PVC pipe you previously suggested, with the blue lines representing the direction of water flow. If you go with something like this, you're going to want your influent line at least a couple inches below the water level, otherwise evaporation will expose it and cause air bubble issues.
Also, we haven't discussed it yet, but how high is your middle seperator going to be? And are you going to baffle the ends or midline of your fuge?
Actually I was thinking of elbowing the pvc as it enters the refug and the pvc with the holes would be perpendicular to the substraight, but thinking about it that may just give me surface skimming, S--T