Plenum or Insanity?

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2583296
GIVE OUR CREATION LIFE
Joe; Its Alive! Very First Jo-Rangeum is up and running. TRandel will have to add more mud. Man is that stuff expensive. We did plenum, screen, calcium carbonate sand, live sand from tank, screen and then mud. We only had enough to create a 1 and 1/2" thick layer of substrate total, so more will have to be added.
Making the screen covered plenum

Legs on the screen covered plenum

Fuge w/ calcium carbonate sand

Fuge filled w/ and running

Fuge/sump combo

The fuge is approx. 10 gallons powered by a 1200 Maxijet, and gravity fed to the sump.
 
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dennis210

Guest
Okay, we finished another project I had promised someone, now we have at least 6 tanks with differant flow patterns to show off. Now maybe we can find actual customers who will pay us for setting these up, designing, building, and or maintaining. All this just to help with $ to feed an addiction!
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2583640
Hey Joe, any progress on the plumbing/connections yet? Hoping to see some pictures of that thing in place soon!
Randy I am back on the job, I almost committed the ultimate sacrilege yesterday. MY niece’s daughter received her first Holy Communion. While in church I keep eyeing the Holy Water. I had my TDS meter in my car, my friend I came very close to getting it.
Now that I have Crazy glued my place in hell let me continue. Your screen over egg over PVC is exactly what I planed nice to see I can come up with one good idea. Working on our Jo-Rangeum right now
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Pic shows reworked 1/2 inch PVC. Influent is now valve coupling and barb fitting for tubing.
Refug with influent in place barb on top for tubing bottom will be caped. length will be cut as per brainstorming and then holes drilled.
No sure about the length of the effluent into sump would like the added aeration with it being abve the water level but I may get air bubbles in my DT. Any thoughts
Time to gid out the old glass cutter and see if i can cut my divider
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Well RandyMan thinking that our Jo-Rangeum needs a signature look and as I have often been said to be a little askew what do you think of the divider
 
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dennis210

Guest
Joe it looks good to me. The ball valve switch-a-roo was what I thought needed to be done. I can't tell from pics though how the water coming into the Jo-Rangium is going to be. I was picturing a 90, then 90, then a oversized spray bar up close to surface.
 
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dennis210

Guest
Ps Had to laugh at glasses off to use camera - It's not just me!
Also Holy Water / TDS - depends on how many fingers or hands had been dipped and how clean they were to begin with. ROFL
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Dennis looking at the pic the right side is the influent the left is a bulkhead overflow out and into my sump I was going with a ninety a ½ to ¾ adapter then pvc horizontal the length of the refuge Randy thought it would be batter to drill holes in the vertical PVC pictured thus getting a horizontal flow over the substraight as opposed to down ward curent Thoughts???
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Dennis210;2584985 said:
Ps Had to laugh at glasses off to use camera - It's not just me!
Also Holy Water / TDS - depends on how many fingers or hands had been dipped and how clean they were to begin with. ROFL[/QUOTE
Excellent point may call for a controlled experiment
Right on about the glasses
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2584447
Randy I am back on the job, I almost committed the ultimate sacrilege yesterday. MY niece’s daughter received her first Holy Communion. While in church I keep eyeing the Holy Water. I had my TDS meter in my car, my friend I came very close to getting it.
Now that I have Crazy glued my place in hell let me continue. Your screen over egg over PVC is exactly what I planed nice to see I can come up with one good idea. Working on our Jo-Rangeum right now
Joe, that would indeed have been a sight to see; I can indeed imagine that the church may have been a bit upset.
Your idea for the plenum indeed worked well, and I was quite pleased with the outcome; we can easily see beneath the plenum to monitor both gas levels (via airbubbles ~ if any), and filtering of sand.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2584512
Pic shows reworked 1/2 inch PVC. Influent is now valve coupling and barb fitting for tubing.
Refug with influent in place barb on top for tubing bottom will be caped. length will be cut as per brainstorming and then holes drilled.

No sure about the length of the effluent into sump would like the added aeration with it being abve the water level but I may get air bubbles in my DT. Any thoughts
I think the coupling and shutoff will work much better the way it is now, in the event you ever have to remove the Jo-Rangeum ~ although let us hope not.
The influent as per the discussion will give you a nice circular flow around the outside of the fuge; if you decide to go with something just below the surface, as Dennis indicated, I would go perpendicular to the fuge, so that the waterflow is driven down to the end of the fuge, creating a rolling motion from top to bottom. The only issue there would be in the length of the influent spraybar. It seems it would be fairly short. Water moving near the surface does have the potential to bring in more oxygen, if you are leave the top off. If not, I don't see much point. Oxygen will be produced by the macroalgae, and will dissolve in the water as it is being produced. Like you, I think that a short tube on the effluent will generate air bubble in the sump which in turn would make there way into your DT. JMO
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2584851
Well RandyMan thinking that our Jo-Rangeum needs a signature look and as I have often been said to be a little askew what do you think of the divider


Joe, I like it, as you said "something different"; and I would say that you are certainly not the only one of us to be considered slightly askew.
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Now, if you are ready, lets talk mud. As you know, one the sump we set up Saturday, we did a modification on the sump set-up that we had designed. The owner (also a member of the boards), had purchased a 5lb container of Miracle Mud; after being assured by the not so local LFS she purchased the sump from that it should swell and provide sufficient substrate for the sump I previously described to you.
Having now see the mud, I can tell you that it is nothing at all like the substrate that I currently have in my refugeum. Nor did it "swell". Concerned with the initial volume of substrate and having our doubts, Dennis and I convinced the owner to go with a plenum, and lack of desirable materials available at the local LFS, we were forced to further diverge from the sump design that you and I had discussed. As a result we ended up with the substrate as I describe previously. The volume of mud we achieved with the initial quantity was sufficient to cover the sump to a depth of between 1/4 to 1/2 inch.
Now given that I know nothing about this substrate, I desire to pick you brain. Based on our previous discussion, I assume that this will in no way provide the benefit of a anaerobic layer in the mid regions of the sump. Obviously more will be needed. How much more is the question. Additionally, we previously discussed "mud activator" and given that the Miracle Mud is dry, I advised her that she would need to purchase the activator as well. In addition to the activator, can you advise me as to what would be some suitable mud-dwelling inverts for her to include in her sump?
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2585176
Now, if you are ready, lets talk mud. As you know, one the sump we set up Saturday, we did a modification on the sump set-up that we had designed. The owner (also a member of the boards), had purchased a 5lb container of Miracle Mud; after being assured by the not so local LFS she purchased the sump from that it should swell and provide sufficient substrate for the sump I previously described to you.
Having now see the mud, I can tell you that it is nothing at all like the substrate that I currently have in my refugeum. Nor did it "swell". Concerned with the initial volume of substrate and having our doubts, Dennis and I convinced the owner to go with a plenum, and lack of desirable materials available at the local LFS, we were forced to further diverge from the sump design that you and I had discussed. As a result we ended up with the substrate as I describe previously. The volume of mud we achieved with the initial quantity was sufficient to cover the sump to a depth of between 1/4 to 1/2 inch.
Now given that I know nothing about this substrate, I desire to pick you brain. Based on our previous discussion, I assume that this will in no way provide the benefit of a anaerobic layer in the mid regions of the sump. Obviously more will be needed. How much more is the question. Additionally, we previously discussed "mud activator" and given that the Miracle Mud is dry, I advised her that she would need to purchase the activator as well. In addition to the activator, can you advise me as to what would be some suitable mud-dwelling inverts for her to include in her sump?
Randy I have never heard of mud swelling. Aquariums having mud substraight cannot have strong water movement since the soft fine mud is easily suspended in the water. It is possible that with slight suspension it is possible that there is a perception of swelling.
A mud bottom sump can be set up with a thin or deep layer of mud that being said all the research I have done suggests that two inches of mud min is sufficient for most setups.
IMO ¼ to ½ is just not sufficient and a waste of money.
The mud you get “fresh” out of he jar IMO is ideal substrate because it supplies trace elements, iodine, minerals, and nutrients, helping create a beneficial environment for aquarium food such as copepods, burrowing worms, decapods, and other sump organisms. Organic rich clay, iodine and chelated-element rich substrate, and super-fine aragonite organic acids. That being said these elements get depleted as your sump ages. As for now IMO no booster is needed.
Now as far as inverts. There are many but the problem is getting them there are mud snails mud shrimp and worms. Hard to get.
polychaete worms burrow deep down. In the mud again hard to get but work great because
They burrow deep in the deeper layers of the bed and form tubes that extend towards the surface where the oxygen levels are highest, and it's thought that their movements prevent the bed from becoming completely anaerobic and prevent the build-up of bacterial glycocalyces.
My friend there just is no simple stocking plan yet for a mud substraight its seems that the rooting algae although with its impacting potential will with routine harvesting keep the mud some what “loose”.
I have some calls out, and hope to have more info for you tomorow On specific inverts available
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by sepulatian
http:///forum/post/2585201
Looking great Joe!!! When do you plan to hook it up to the display? I hope that it works out great for you!

THANKS
I would think with in a week Sir Q but as you and I know “slow and easy wins the race”
I would say something about the KISS OF DEATH but I don’t have my asbestos underwear on...... I"m kidding take your fingers off the key board please
 

scopus tang

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2585316
Randy I have never heard of mud swelling. Aquariums having mud substraight cannot have strong water movement since the soft fine mud is easily suspended in the water. It is possible that with slight suspension it is possible that there is a perception of swelling.
A mud bottom sump can be set up with a thin or deep layer of mud that being said all the research I have done suggests that two inches of mud min is sufficient for most setups.
IMO ¼ to ½ is just not sufficient and a waste of money.
The mud you get “fresh” out of he jar IMO is ideal substrate because it supplies trace elements, iodine, minerals, and nutrients, helping create a beneficial environment for aquarium food such as copepods, burrowing worms, decapods, and other sump organisms. Organic rich clay, iodine and chelated-element rich substrate, and super-fine aragonite organic acids. That being said these elements get depleted as your sump ages. As for now IMO no booster is needed.
Now as far as inverts. There are many but the problem is getting them there are mud snails mud shrimp and worms. Hard to get.
polychaete worms burrow deep down. In the mud again hard to get but work great because
They burrow deep in the deeper layers of the bed and form tubes that extend towards the surface where the oxygen levels are highest, and it's thought that their movements prevent the bed from becoming completely anaerobic and prevent the build-up of bacterial glycocalyces.
My friend there just is no simple stocking plan yet for a mud substraight its seems that the rooting algae although with its impacting potential will with routine harvesting keep the mud some what “loose”.
I have some calls out, and hope to have more info for you tomorow On specific inverts available
Well Joe, I can tell you that her mud did indeed not "swell" in the slightest, and I agree that it is insufficient. Also would not have been my choice as a substrate (as you well know) but it was what she purchased. Do you think that the 1200 maxijet is too much flow for the system we created? Excellent, I will tell her to hold off on the activator. We will be looking into "rooting" algae possibilities as well ~ may investigate Dennis' idea of the red macro further (although it is my personal opinion that they would grow best under actinic, rather than white lighting, generally being a deeper dwelling organism). Just for curiosity, how do you think nassarius snails might do in this substrate? I eagerly await any further info forthcoming ~ thanks much
.
 

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Randy i would go with this snail The Cerith snail is a small scavenger with an elongated spiral shell that is usually black with tiny white dots covering the entire shell. One of the most ideal scavengers, detritus eaters, and algae eaters these snails are perfect for the reef aquarium, quickly devouring detritus, uneaten food, decaying organics, fish waste, and several types of nuisance algae. Cerith Snails will often bury themselves in the sand, which will help maintain adequate oxygen levels in the substrate.
OR
The Bumble Bee Snail is a distinctly small snail with yellowish bands on a dark brown background.
It will graze on uneaten meaty foods and detritus. It is also a sand sifter so prefers an aquarium with a deep sand bed in which to forage
 
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