Plenum or Insanity?

[natclanwy]

Joe, Somewhere I didn't pick up that you were adding the horizontal section to the vertical pipe that may make all the difference and after looking at your sump plumbing again most of the air may bypass your influent line and continue on to the wetdry or it will accumulate in the influent line air locking it because there is a an easier path for the water to travel via the sump. All you can do is try and looks like you have a handle on it if it does become a problem.

 

[dennis210]

Damn wish I knew how to draw on the computer. Okay one more time - where the black bulkhead fitting comes thru the top - first piece into the sump is the 90 with the extra hole in it. There is a name for it but it escapes me. It is a 90 with an extra 90 on it. The will be 3 attachment points. This is the first piece dropping into the refugium. From there you can branch legs, make a "u" or a square arrangement to allow water into fuge. If you keep the influent high so there is some drop or freefall, no regurge or airlock, more O2, etc. The more space for holes the less inflow pressure disturbing mud.
If you were to go back in this thread, find the site for Randy's sump replacement, there is a pic of his inflow tube, his comes in from side, yours will be from the top, just changing the fitting to allow for this. Hope this helps!
Dennis

 

[florida joe]

Joe, Somewhere I didn't pick up that you were adding the horizontal section to the vertical pipe that may make all the difference and after looking at your sump plumbing again most of the air may bypass your influent line and continue on to the wetdry or it will accumulate in the influent line air locking it because there is a an easier path for the water to travel via the sump. All you can do is try and looks like you have a handle on it if it does become a problem.[/QUOT
Thanks Actually with out your concern I may have put the substrate in and incurred the problem this way I will water test in place with out the substraight and if need be remove and correct im sure that we will be able to come up with a viable solution

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Dennis210
http:///forum/post/2587070
Damn wish I knew how to draw on the computer. Okay one more time - where the black bulkhead fitting comes thru the top - first piece into the sump is the 90 with the extra hole in it. There is a name for it but it escapes me. It is a 90 with an extra 90 on it. The will be 3 attachment points. This is the first piece dropping into the refugium. From there you can branch legs, make a "u" or a square arrangement to allow water into fuge. If you keep the influent high so there is some drop or freefall, no regurge or airlock, more O2, etc. The more space for holes the less inflow pressure disturbing mud.
If you were to go back in this thread, find the site for Randy's sump replacement, there is a pic of his inflow tube, his comes in from side, yours will be from the top, just changing the fitting to allow for this. Hope this helps!
Dennis
A light bulb just when off I will make a mock up and post a pic but what I think you are saying is to ecencualy attach a horizontal rectangle of PVC to the short vertical coming into the refug. Am I close?

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2587189
A light bulb just when off I will make a mock up and post a pic but what I think you are saying is to ecencualy attach a horizontal rectangle of PVC to the short vertical coming into the refug. Am I close?
Ok, didn't make it to his house before he went to bed last night ~ so after talking to him on the phone, yet again, I think I can finally visualize what he's trying to say. Did the following diagram in paint; black is your fuge (1st is top down, 2nd is side view), red lines show PVC, and black/blue arrows represent water flow.

(Edit: sorry diagram should also show water flow coming from rear PVC crosspipe ~ I missed it) The green is my modification on his suggestion with the creation of a u shaped structure like in my sump

(Stupid paint Program!)
The differences being several; the first being that you are coming in from the top, so you would need a 90 with an extra outlet on the topside of the 90 for the first split. The second being that your holes would face to the side rather than down, so water is pushed the entire length of your sump just below the surface. My mod would be to actually angle the PVC to the second cross pipe, so it sits a little lower than the first, so you are not driving the water into the backside of the first crosspipe. Does that make sense? Course we'll have to wait for Dennis to make sure that I actually interpreted correctly ~ but I believe thats what he was trying to say.

 

[florida joe]

Randy I just returned from the pluming supply. I visualized Dennis idea this morning. The ninety is called an elbow with a release only problem is they don’t come in ½ inch when I put them with the 90s to run the PVC longitudinally I don’t have the front to back space. My friend it time to s—t or get off the pot as far a influent goes so I will live and die with my ¾ PVC covered with blue filter material as per an earlier pic. I think with the filter material I will have enough diffusion so as not to stir up the water

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2587570
Randy I just returned from the pluming supply. I visualized Dennis idea this morning. The ninety is called an elbow with a release only problem is they don’t come in ½ inch when I put them with the 90s to run the PVC longitudinally I don’t have the front to back space. My friend it time to s—t or get off the pot as far a influent goes so I will live and die with my ¾ PVC covered with blue filter material as per an earlier pic. I think with the filter material I will have enough diffusion so as not to stir up the water
Indeed, enough talking, I eagerly await the results of your wet test!
Any word on mud invertes

?

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2587661
Indeed, enough talking, I eagerly await the results of your wet test!
Any word on mud invertes

?
Sorry randy I have been slacking on the inverts i will put in a call to Mote Marine labs here in FL tomorrow will have some info soon

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2587693
Sorry randy I have been slacking on the inverts i will put in a call to Mote Marine labs here in FL tomorrow will have some info soon
Excellent; thanks so much! Great informational article on the Caulepera BTW

 

[florida joe]

Originally Posted by Scopus Tang
http:///forum/post/2587811
Excellent; thanks so much! Great informational article on the Caulepera BTW

you have e-mail

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2589071
you have e-mail
Responded! Thank you

.

 

[florida joe]

Randy check out my new thread in reefs I may be headed for the padded room I am thinking about this my original thought was mud refug with a plenum. Then we joined forces and it was a refug with plenum half mud half sand. I was thinking if I go with a plenum on one side with three inches of mud total of 5 inches and on the other side no plenum just 5 inches of live sand. I could turn off the influent take immediate water samples just about the substraight with my sea squirt and compare not only mud verses sand put plenum with a less thick substrate compared to a plenum less DSB

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2589743
Randy check out my new thread in reefs I may be headed for the padded room I am thinking about this my original thought was mud refug with a plenum. Then we joined forces and it was a refug with plenum half mud half sand. I was thinking if I go with a plenum on one side with three inches of mud total of 5 inches and on the other side no plenum just 5 inches of live sand. I could turn off the influent take immediate water samples just about the substraight with my sea squirt and compare not only mud verses sand put plenum with a less thick substrate compared to a plenum less DSB
Again Joe, a valid experiment ~ what you won't be able to test any longer is benefit of mud over plenum vs. benefit of sand over plenum. It is established that sand over plenum is beneficial; were as I'm not sure about mud over plenum, and so far as I know, to date, no proof-positive (via emperical observation) benefit has been shown for straight DSB. I think its simply a matter of which exeriment you would like to conduct. Either way, I am along for the ride

.

 

[florida joe]

Randy this is my thinking and I use the term loosely, our refugium is basically two separate entities contained in one vessel, mud/ plenum and DSB side by side. Now why not give each side a different nutrient exporter. Mud the rooting caulerpa and the DSB Cheato. I can put a divider the height of the refug made out of egg crate keeping Cheato from floating over to the other side. I may also cross hatch two pieces making the passing from one side to the other difficult for some inverts

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2590618
Randy this is my thinking and I use the term loosely, our refugium is basically two separate entities contained in one vessel, mud/ plenum and DSB side by side. Now why not give each side a different nutrient exporter. Mud the rooting caulerpa and the DSB Cheato. I can put a divider the height of the refug made out of egg crate keeping Cheato from floating over to the other side. I may also cross hatch two pieces making the passing from one side to the other difficult for some inverts
Joe ~ your back ~ thought maybe you had deserted me

(

).
This sounds reasonable, but three issues/questions come to mind;
1. If caulerpa spores/fragments pass through the grate and root in the
sandbed (which is likely) will having the chaeto cause problems with
caulerpa removal?
2. If spores pass through the grate, will they grow in amidst the chaeto so
that you end up with a mixed macroalgae mass?
and
3. why do you want to limit some inverts to only one side or the other of the
sump

?

 

[florida joe]

And our friend Dennis calls ME the devils advocate.
Let me take the easiest first I am thinking of going with a sand sifting cucumber now if I keep it isolated on the sand bed side It will not get into the effluent pipe dumped into the sump and sucked up and killed in my sump pump causing big time problems
Issue number one with the natural flow of sand side to mud the spoors would have to swim up stream to get to the DSB side.
Issue two going with Cheato in our refug with low flow but an air stone I will have to take the ball of Cheato out to clean and rotate it at that time I will pic those little Caulerpa poachers out,
I am happy you are in my fox hole my friend

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/post/2590993
And our friend Dennis calls ME the devils advocate.
Let me take the easiest first I am thinking of going with a sand sifting cucumber now if I keep it isolated on the sand bed side It will not get into the effluent pipe dumped into the sump and sucked up and killed in my sump pump causing big time problems
Issue number one with the natural flow of sand side to mud the spoors would have to swim up stream to get to the DSB side.
Issue two going with Cheato in our refug with low flow but an air stone I will have to take the ball of Cheato out to clean and rotate it at that time I will pic those little Caulerpa poachers out.
Did I not tell you? The devil and I are very close ~ like brothers; my wife is constantly tell me that I'm carrying him around in my hind pocket

!
On the cucumber, if I may ask? will they not consume the microfauna in your DSB ~ seems to me that in addition to the potential toxin issue, I've also seen some debate on that issue?
https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/t/318415/sand-shifters-vs-sand-sifters-for-dsb
Issue two, I do know that most algae spores are flagellated and are capable of "swimming" especially if there isn't strong current (I could be incorrect, but I believe your current wont be supper strong, and with a front to back rolling current, they could potentially swim from side to side
Issue three sounds reasonable, but sounds like a lot of work (I do know that I used to have to periodically "dust" the debris off my chaeto as well (not as much since I increased the flow)
Originally Posted by florida joe http:///forum/post/2590993
I am happy you are in my fox hole my friend

Just trying to make sure we find answers for as many questions as we can prior to actual activation. You know what they say "slow and steady . . " and "an ounce of prevention . . ." But I am pleased to be here.

 

[florida joe]

Well after much internal debate I have decided to go with the Caulerpa taxifolia the super invasive, but Caulerpa of choice for nutrient exporting algae. Purchasing the Caulerpa felt more like a drug deal then a simple transaction. I kept looking over my shoulder for the EPA to arrest me. Pictured here is my starting field of Caulerpa with out aptasia (Randy

) in my QT.

 

[scopus tang]

Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2591744
Well after much internal debate I have decided to go with the Caulerpa taxifolia the super invasive, but Caulerpa of choice for nutrient exporting algae. Purchasing the Caulerpa felt more like a drug deal then a simple transaction. I kept looking over my shoulder for the EPA to arrest me. Pictured here is my starting field of Caulerpa with out aptasia (Randy

) in my QT.

Nice job on the aptasia Joe. Positively IDed as C. taxifolia eh? And they didn't follow you home and take it away from you? You do realize that everything you type into this forum can and will be used against you in a court of law don't you?

 

[florida joe]

My very good friend why do you think I cultivate the insanity card

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