Quarantine practice.

sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2923779
You and I both know that my tank has ick in it??? Or is it that you know that I know that you know that I know my tank has ick... but does anyone else know... who knows?
I know because we have discussed this before

There is no doubt that the parasite is alive in my system. I have seen the occasional spot here or there. But I just don't freak out about minor maladies such as ick. I've had (I think) 3 outbreaks of ick in 5 years and have yet to lose a fish from it. I think that if you are losing a lot of fish to ick then the ick is not the problem but a symptom of more serious issues.
I agree. In a nicely set up system people should not be losing fish to ich. Again, fish can certainly live with ich. It is a natural balance.
My previous posts may have been slightly antagonistic, but that's just because I was at work and I'm usually pissed off at work. But I just think that the whole QT thing is overrated and done completely wrong most of the time. I've discussed this before but look at the examples the "responsible" hobbiests have used in this thread alone... previous posts have mentioned extremely small, nano type tanks being used as QT. Of course if you throw a powder blue tang into a 10 gallon it will develop ick or some other malady and likely die. Does that mean that the QT saved the display from said disease? Not in my mind.
I could not agree with you more. So many fish die in QT from them being hastily set up, not cycled, and inadequate for the fish being put in there. That is just wrong. You cannot blame the practice of using a QT though, you can blame the hobbyists who didn't quarantine their fish until there as a terrible outbreak. I have not lost a fish yet in QT and there are plenty of other people that practice proper quarantine procedures successfully. It isn't the practice, it is those that wait until there is an issue to set one up.
I keep delicates. In my last setup, before I had a fish room, I was doing 10% water changes every 5-6 weeks or more... I was topping off with tap water... and I feed a ton. I just don't agree with the logic of throwing an idol, copperband, ray or tang into an undersized tank with inferior mechanical and biological filtration when there is a full size, well maintained display ready to go.
I know this is just one area where I won't agree with a lot of people. BTW, in about 10 days I'll have had my yellow ray and purple tang for 5 years. Both have had their share of issues throughout the years. But we've managed to do ok.
I know what fish you have and have seen the pictures. Your fish are stunning! No argument there. You are doing all of the right things.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2923071
I've seen plenty of fish be carriers of ick for longer than 3-4 weeks before displaying the symptoms. Can you elaborate and, possibly provide a source for this information?

I agree with Crimzy that you can miss the symptoms of Ich in an infected fish and then put it in your DT. QT will give you a chance to see that the fish is infected prior to putting it in with your other fish. I know that I have move fish thinking all clear, but once in the DT bango Ich. And for the people that don’t QT because you know how to pick a good healthy fish watch out for the fish in the lfs tank, with the cleaner goby…
 
crimzy

crimzy

Active Member
If I was playing devils advocate, I think that a QT has probably more benefit as a hospital tank than a quarantine... but this really only applies to tanks that are small enough to catch fish out of them. If a fish were relatively easily caught from the display and treated in the hospital tank, then I can see some significant benefit, although catching fish is simply too difficult in a larger system or in most reefs.
BTW, thanks for the kind words Sep. I always find these threads pretty interesting because the polls usually show that most people don't QT, yet the most outspoken posters are the QT'ers. I think that the relative benefits of QT are outweighed by the impractibility of doing it right. Most of us don't want another full size tank that is well filtered, fed and maintained just as a display is... and if we do want one, we want to do something fun with it.... not just leave it empty.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2923824
I always find these threads pretty interesting because the polls usually show that most people don't QT, yet the most outspoken posters are the QT'ers.
I think you missing the reason why those that are so outspoken, are in favor of QT.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2923824
If I was playing devils advocate, I think that a QT has probably more benefit as a hospital tank than a quarantine... but this really only applies to tanks that are small enough to catch fish out of them. If a fish were relatively easily caught from the display and treated in the hospital tank, then I can see some significant benefit, although catching fish is simply too difficult in a larger system or in most reefs.
BTW, thanks for the kind words Sep. I always find these threads pretty interesting because the polls usually show that most people don't QT, yet the most outspoken posters are the QT'ers. I think that the relative benefits of QT are outweighed by the impractibility of doing it right. Most of us don't want another full size tank that is well filtered, fed and maintained just as a display is... and if we do want one, we want to do something fun with it.... not just leave it empty.

A QT does not have to be a replica of the DT for most people. Crimzy, you are out of the norm in most aspects of novice fish keeping, so let's not think of your awsome tank at this particular moment in time
Let us think of newer hobbyists with newer tanks, not fully established tanks than can hold critters that most cannot.
 
geoj

geoj

Active Member
I like what is being said here we can mess up a QT. I like a 25gal for QT I keep it running all the time. Just a thought your QT can be as good a set-up as your DT. I run it like any DT with LS, a small amount of LR and good flow. When I get a fish that is sick I take it back to the store. If to late for that and I have to treat then I convert it to HT remove LR LS. When done I restart the system. So you can run your QT as a holding tank till it need be a hospital tank.
 
sepulatian

sepulatian

Moderator
Originally Posted by GeoJ
http:///forum/post/2923842
I like what is being said here we can mess up a QT. I like a 25gal for QT I keep it running all the time. Just a thought your QT can be as good a set-up as your DT. I run it like any DT with LS, a small amount of LR and good flow. When I get a fish that is sick I take it back to the store. If to late for that and I have to treat then I convert it to HT remove LR LS. When done I restart the system. So you can run your QT as a holding tank till it need be a hospital tank.
Both of my QT's have some sand in them. I add a piece of LR for a new fish. If the fish needs to be treated then the rock goes into the spare QT for three weeks. The same can be accomplished with a bucket and a power head.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Going to go off the range with this one, but I QT a bit different. I normally don't have sand, but with a Coris wrasse, I had to have something, so I filled a large lunch container with silica sand. I also have about 40lbs of dedicated LR (perhaps just rock) that is permanently in my 55gal QT. The rock is clean, no coralline or other algae to worry about. I have read more then conflicting reports as to want happens with the nitrifying bacteria. In hypo, the bacteria goes in a 'hibernation mode." I tend to side with that theory as opposed to hypo kills it.
Now I strictly use copper, err should I say Cupramine. Cupramine is different from either chelated or unchelated copper medications that the copper is bonded to an organic. I am currently going through a copper session and have no problems about the rocks absorbing the copper. This a obviously just an experiment and can't recommend it to anyone, but so far so good. I will never use the rock for a reef tank again, but that's a small price to pay. The rock really seems to help the fish. The butterflies love to pick at it, even though there's nothing on there.
I am currently using the same water change schedule as hypo treatments, 10gals every 3rd day. Amm/nitri are 0, nitrate is 30. Not terrible for 4 fish in QT.
 
nw2salt08

nw2salt08

Active Member
I don't QT my fish because my LFS does this for me. Get new fish in and they get treated right away and held for 3-4 weeks. Never had an issue.
 
C

calvertbill

Guest

Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2923071
I've seen plenty of fish be carriers of ick for longer than 3-4 weeks before displaying the symptoms. Can you elaborate and, possibly provide a source for this information?

+1
Don't forget, it's entirely possible to bring in ICH trophonts free swimming in the water from an infected tank. I once bought a Blonde Naso which I examined closely and was cyst free. Five weeks later my entire tank was infected and I lost a Koran Angel, the Naso, a Goldflake (my favorite fish) and a trio of Clarkiis.
A Russian-roulette pistol has 5 empty chambers. You can luck out for quite a while w/o QT. I don't want to face that kind of loss in my big tank!
I QT everything wet, rocks, fish, inverts, plastic Tang police whistles, etc. The enemy could be lurking in the water and the life cycle of the paracite can be as long as 39 days.
 
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