Redistribution of wealth
- Thread starter reefraff
- Start date
deejeff442
Active Member
you know its getting bad when the NY post write stuff like this
bionicarm
Active Member
The author of the article is a blood-sucking lawyer who I can assure you is one of the "Peter's" he's referring to in his comments. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what "tens of billions each year for "tax credits" to people who pay no income tax." refers to. Am I to assume he's talking about these 'baby factories' that pop out 4 - 6 kids, then after all the deductions they get for so many kids, they pay no taxes? I guess we can quit giving free handouts to all the poverty and homeless people in the country. They can go build more Tent Cities next to rivers and under bridges. Completely do away ith the food stamp program. Let them find leftovers in garbage dumpsters behind all these restaurants around town. I'm all for nixing the Medicaid program. Let all the old farts and people on disability buy their own insurance. I'm tired of my hard-earned money going towards paying for someone elses healthcare. Euthanasia is the way to go. Go get a job for Christ sake. I mean, come on. Who couldn't find a great place to live by making $7.25/hr at McDonalds or ChuckECheezes? If they'd get three of those jobs, and work 18 hours per day, they wouldn't even need housing and food stamps. They could sleep in the back, with a hugh walk-in refrigerator and all the food they wanted at their disposal. The burnt Chicken Nuggets and overcooked Big Macs they toss out every day could keep a family of four fed for months. And since this guy wants to get rid of daycare payments, these 16 year old mom's can just hang their kid on their back like an Indian papooose, and only have to worry they don't get burned by popping grease from the french fryer. And what's with student assistance? Let these lazy bums go work for 4 or 6 years, and save up money to go to college. College is way overrated anyways. And I don't even know why they give out unemployment benefits. Who can live on $200/week anyways? Kinda hard to pay that $1500 mortgage payment with minimum wage benefits.
bionicarm
Active Member
Here, elect one of these people into the POTUS chair. They'd have the country back in black by the end of their first term:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39416868/ns/today-today_people/?gt1=43001
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39416868/ns/today-today_people/?gt1=43001
deejeff442
Active Member
oh yes the american dream.to watch every penny we spend .work hard and have to sleep on a used pillow.seems to me if an adult has to work at mcdonalds he hasnt amounted to much .i am supposed to feel sorry for people who have 4-6 kids and let the gov't take my hard earned money and give it to them?hell no.like alot of people in this country i have beat myself up ,worked 80+ hrs a week for the last 22 yrs to build my company .nobody gave me anything.we decided not to have children so now i am punished to pay more taxes because of it.60% of my property tax goes to schools i recieve not one benifit from it.as for food stamps from what i hear its pretty easy to turn food stamps into drug money.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315215
Here, elect one of these people into the POTUS chair. They'd have the country back in black by the end of their first term:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39416868/ns/today-today_people/?gt1=43001
Smart people...............
Your previous post makes sense when taking each point individually, but as a collective not so much.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315215
Here, elect one of these people into the POTUS chair. They'd have the country back in black by the end of their first term:
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/39416868/ns/today-today_people/?gt1=43001
Smart people...............
Your previous post makes sense when taking each point individually, but as a collective not so much.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315212
The author of the article is a blood-sucking lawyer who I can assure you is one of the "Peter's" he's referring to in his comments. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what "tens of billions each year for "tax credits" to people who pay no income tax." refers to. Am I to assume he's talking about these 'baby factories' that pop out 4 - 6 kids, then after all the deductions they get for so many kids, they pay no taxes? I guess we can quit giving free handouts to all the poverty and homeless people in the country. They can go build more Tent Cities next to rivers and under bridges. Completely do away ith the food stamp program. Let them find leftovers in garbage dumpsters behind all these restaurants around town. I'm all for nixing the Medicaid program. Let all the old farts and people on disability buy their own insurance. I'm tired of my hard-earned money going towards paying for someone elses healthcare. Euthanasia is the way to go. Go get a job for Christ sake. I mean, come on. Who couldn't find a great place to live by making $7.25/hr at McDonalds or ChuckECheezes? If they'd get three of those jobs, and work 18 hours per day, they wouldn't even need housing and food stamps. They could sleep in the back, with a hugh walk-in refrigerator and all the food they wanted at their disposal. The burnt Chicken Nuggets and overcooked Big Macs they toss out every day could keep a family of four fed for months. And since this guy wants to get rid of daycare payments, these 16 year old mom's can just hang their kid on their back like an Indian papooose, and only have to worry they don't get burned by popping grease from the french fryer. And what's with student assistance? Let these lazy bums go work for 4 or 6 years, and save up money to go to college. College is way overrated anyways. And I don't even know why they give out unemployment benefits. Who can live on $200/week anyways? Kinda hard to pay that $1500 mortgage payment with minimum wage benefits.
Why should I do with less to help support someone who decided to have 3 or 4 kids? I do not have a biological child because me and the wife were waiting until we could better afford to support more than the one we had (her son who I adopted). Is it fair that while I did the responsible thing that I have to turn around and give my money to some jackass who spits out kids she can't afford to raise?
Child care credits and earned income credits are refundable credits meaning if you have enough deductions that you owe no tax you get paid the amount of the credits as a "tax return".
There should be no such thing as welfare. If we have to give foodstamps, medicaid and section 8 housing to people they should be forced to perform public service to earn it. The biggest reason that doesn't happen is the SEIU won't allow it because it will decrease the need to public sector jobs which they collect dues from. Funny thing, while the union's pension is underfunded they gave approximately 60 million to the Obama campaign alone in 2008. Must be a lot of really stupid people in that union if they allow that level of political donations while their pensions are underfunded. .
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315212
The author of the article is a blood-sucking lawyer who I can assure you is one of the "Peter's" he's referring to in his comments. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what "tens of billions each year for "tax credits" to people who pay no income tax." refers to. Am I to assume he's talking about these 'baby factories' that pop out 4 - 6 kids, then after all the deductions they get for so many kids, they pay no taxes? I guess we can quit giving free handouts to all the poverty and homeless people in the country. They can go build more Tent Cities next to rivers and under bridges. Completely do away ith the food stamp program. Let them find leftovers in garbage dumpsters behind all these restaurants around town. I'm all for nixing the Medicaid program. Let all the old farts and people on disability buy their own insurance. I'm tired of my hard-earned money going towards paying for someone elses healthcare. Euthanasia is the way to go. Go get a job for Christ sake. I mean, come on. Who couldn't find a great place to live by making $7.25/hr at McDonalds or ChuckECheezes? If they'd get three of those jobs, and work 18 hours per day, they wouldn't even need housing and food stamps. They could sleep in the back, with a hugh walk-in refrigerator and all the food they wanted at their disposal. The burnt Chicken Nuggets and overcooked Big Macs they toss out every day could keep a family of four fed for months. And since this guy wants to get rid of daycare payments, these 16 year old mom's can just hang their kid on their back like an Indian papooose, and only have to worry they don't get burned by popping grease from the french fryer. And what's with student assistance? Let these lazy bums go work for 4 or 6 years, and save up money to go to college. College is way overrated anyways. And I don't even know why they give out unemployment benefits. Who can live on $200/week anyways? Kinda hard to pay that $1500 mortgage payment with minimum wage benefits.
Why should I do with less to help support someone who decided to have 3 or 4 kids? I do not have a biological child because me and the wife were waiting until we could better afford to support more than the one we had (her son who I adopted). Is it fair that while I did the responsible thing that I have to turn around and give my money to some jackass who spits out kids she can't afford to raise?
Child care credits and earned income credits are refundable credits meaning if you have enough deductions that you owe no tax you get paid the amount of the credits as a "tax return".
There should be no such thing as welfare. If we have to give foodstamps, medicaid and section 8 housing to people they should be forced to perform public service to earn it. The biggest reason that doesn't happen is the SEIU won't allow it because it will decrease the need to public sector jobs which they collect dues from. Funny thing, while the union's pension is underfunded they gave approximately 60 million to the Obama campaign alone in 2008. Must be a lot of really stupid people in that union if they allow that level of political donations while their pensions are underfunded. .
bang guy
Moderator
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315212
The author of the article is a blood-sucking lawyer who I can assure you is one of the "Peter's" he's referring to in his comments. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what "tens of billions each year for "tax credits" to people who pay no income tax." refers to.
Probable referring to earned income tax credits where people can get not only their withholding tax back in full but get an additional credit back from the feds.
Quote:
Kinda hard to pay that $1500 mortgage payment with minimum wage benefits.
Why would someone making minimum wage buy such an expensive house?
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315212
The author of the article is a blood-sucking lawyer who I can assure you is one of the "Peter's" he's referring to in his comments. I'd be interested in knowing exactly what "tens of billions each year for "tax credits" to people who pay no income tax." refers to.
Probable referring to earned income tax credits where people can get not only their withholding tax back in full but get an additional credit back from the feds.
Quote:
Kinda hard to pay that $1500 mortgage payment with minimum wage benefits.
Why would someone making minimum wage buy such an expensive house?
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315220
Smart people...............
Your previous post makes sense when taking each point individually, but as a collective not so much.
It was meant to be sarcastic. Weren't you railing me the other day about how "selfish" I am, and I only want to think about what's best for ME, screw everyone else? Look ini the mirror.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315220
Smart people...............
Your previous post makes sense when taking each point individually, but as a collective not so much.
It was meant to be sarcastic. Weren't you railing me the other day about how "selfish" I am, and I only want to think about what's best for ME, screw everyone else? Look ini the mirror.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315225
It was meant to be sarcastic. Weren't you railing me the other day about how "selfish" I am, and I only want to think about what's best for ME, screw everyone else? Look ini the mirror.
So because those people can live within their means they are bad?
Once again...did I say shut those programs down...once again...you assume because I state something is a bad idea or not as good an idea as could be, I want all those programs gone. You are JUST LIKE far-right and far-left...you lump and label people all the same. You are no different than those you despise that label you as liberal.You are incapable of holding a solid discussion with anyone because instead of asking questions, you make assumptions and then jump all over them.
You have no concept of cost on this country....which is why you support healthcare...Ther only reason I don't support it, is cost...not because I think people shouldn't have it. You support all these programs, yet never think of the cost. You think taxing the top 2-10 percent will cover it, you are delusional...but lets get more programs...lets spend more.....after all....credit is the american way...and anyone that lives within their means is stupid.
I remember you criticizing the octomom...lol...yet you support her government program.....
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315225
It was meant to be sarcastic. Weren't you railing me the other day about how "selfish" I am, and I only want to think about what's best for ME, screw everyone else? Look ini the mirror.
So because those people can live within their means they are bad?
Once again...did I say shut those programs down...once again...you assume because I state something is a bad idea or not as good an idea as could be, I want all those programs gone. You are JUST LIKE far-right and far-left...you lump and label people all the same. You are no different than those you despise that label you as liberal.You are incapable of holding a solid discussion with anyone because instead of asking questions, you make assumptions and then jump all over them.
You have no concept of cost on this country....which is why you support healthcare...Ther only reason I don't support it, is cost...not because I think people shouldn't have it. You support all these programs, yet never think of the cost. You think taxing the top 2-10 percent will cover it, you are delusional...but lets get more programs...lets spend more.....after all....credit is the american way...and anyone that lives within their means is stupid.
I remember you criticizing the octomom...lol...yet you support her government program.....
darthtang aw
Active Member
From what I gather, you are in the top 10% for income. Screw it, lets tax you 60% of your income and you can live on 40%...after all...it is for all those people and roads....you can afford it. You may have to cut back on some of your luxuries, but after all...you dont need those things.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315252
So because those people can live within their means they are bad?
Once again...did I say shut those programs down...once again...you assume because I state something is a bad idea or not as good an idea as could be, I want all those programs gone. You are JUST LIKE far-right and far-left...you lump and label people all the same. You are no different than those you despise that label you as liberal.You are incapable of holding a solid discussion with anyone because instead of asking questions, you make assumptions and then jump all over them.
You have no concept of cost on this country....which is why you support healthcare...Ther only reason I don't support it, is cost...not because I think people shouldn't have it. You support all these programs, yet never think of the cost. You think taxing the top 2-10 percent will cover it, you are delusional...but lets get more programs...lets spend more.....after all....credit is the american way...and anyone that lives within their means is stupid.
I remember you criticizing the octomom...lol...yet you support her government program.....
You don't even know what the cost is going to be. Neither do I. When the exact cost is known, I'll evaluate my options. If this ObamaCare is more expensive to obtain than what I currently pay for my health insurance, I'll stick with my current coverage. That's what I was told I could do. "If you have insurance now, you do nothing." Will my taxes go up because of the program? Don't know that either. Where does it say everybody will get free health insurance? The program I read about stated EVERYONE has to pay something. To offset the cost for the lower and middle incomes, they want to tax incomes over $250,000. Do I think that's right? Of course not. But how else do you pay for it? Health insurance rates have gone up anywhere between 5% - 10% every single year for the last decade. I know because I've seen my rates go up, with higher deductibles, and higher Out-Of-Pocket maxes. The lower and middle incomes have to choose between health insurance, or eating and a roof over their head. If you go with the "Same 'Ole Same "Ole" logic, and keep things status quo, nothing will change with insurance providers and the medical industry. One catastrophic injury and BAM! You're homeless.
Do I agree with runaway spending? Nope. Unfortunately as you stated, people run their credit up the hilt to "Stay up with the Joneses". However, there's many Americans who have run up credit debt because that's the only way they can put food on the table, or keep their house from being foreclosed on. We're in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality these days when it comes to the economy in this country. Seems like they've tried every single basic economic strategy that's been around for decades, and what used to be duccessful in the past, doesn't work today. Why is that? Guess if someone could figure that out, maybe things would begin to turn around, and there would be a more positive outcome down the road.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315252
So because those people can live within their means they are bad?
Once again...did I say shut those programs down...once again...you assume because I state something is a bad idea or not as good an idea as could be, I want all those programs gone. You are JUST LIKE far-right and far-left...you lump and label people all the same. You are no different than those you despise that label you as liberal.You are incapable of holding a solid discussion with anyone because instead of asking questions, you make assumptions and then jump all over them.
You have no concept of cost on this country....which is why you support healthcare...Ther only reason I don't support it, is cost...not because I think people shouldn't have it. You support all these programs, yet never think of the cost. You think taxing the top 2-10 percent will cover it, you are delusional...but lets get more programs...lets spend more.....after all....credit is the american way...and anyone that lives within their means is stupid.
I remember you criticizing the octomom...lol...yet you support her government program.....
You don't even know what the cost is going to be. Neither do I. When the exact cost is known, I'll evaluate my options. If this ObamaCare is more expensive to obtain than what I currently pay for my health insurance, I'll stick with my current coverage. That's what I was told I could do. "If you have insurance now, you do nothing." Will my taxes go up because of the program? Don't know that either. Where does it say everybody will get free health insurance? The program I read about stated EVERYONE has to pay something. To offset the cost for the lower and middle incomes, they want to tax incomes over $250,000. Do I think that's right? Of course not. But how else do you pay for it? Health insurance rates have gone up anywhere between 5% - 10% every single year for the last decade. I know because I've seen my rates go up, with higher deductibles, and higher Out-Of-Pocket maxes. The lower and middle incomes have to choose between health insurance, or eating and a roof over their head. If you go with the "Same 'Ole Same "Ole" logic, and keep things status quo, nothing will change with insurance providers and the medical industry. One catastrophic injury and BAM! You're homeless.
Do I agree with runaway spending? Nope. Unfortunately as you stated, people run their credit up the hilt to "Stay up with the Joneses". However, there's many Americans who have run up credit debt because that's the only way they can put food on the table, or keep their house from being foreclosed on. We're in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality these days when it comes to the economy in this country. Seems like they've tried every single basic economic strategy that's been around for decades, and what used to be duccessful in the past, doesn't work today. Why is that? Guess if someone could figure that out, maybe things would begin to turn around, and there would be a more positive outcome down the road.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315257
You don't even know what the cost is going to be. Neither do I. When the exact cost is known, I'll evaluate my options. If this ObamaCare is more expensive to obtain than what I currently pay for my health insurance, I'll stick with my current coverage. That's what I was told I could do. "If you have insurance now, you do nothing." Will my taxes go up because of the program? Don't know that either. Where does it say everybody will get free health insurance? The program I read about stated EVERYONE has to pay something. To offset the cost for the lower and middle incomes, they want to tax incomes over $250,000. Do I think that's right? Of course not. But how else do you pay for it? Health insurance rates have gone up anywhere between 5% - 10% every single year for the last decade. I know because I've seen my rates go up, with higher deductibles, and higher Out-Of-Pocket maxes. The lower and middle incomes have to choose between health insurance, or eating and a roof over their head. If you go with the "Same 'Ole Same "Ole" logic, and keep things status quo, nothing will change with insurance providers and the medical industry. One catastrophic injury and BAM! You're homeless.
Do I agree with runaway spending? Nope. Unfortunately as you stated, people run their credit up the hilt to "Stay up with the Joneses". However, there's many Americans who have run up credit debt because that's the only way they can put food on the table, or keep their house from being foreclosed on. We're in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality these days when it comes to the economy in this country. Seems like they've tried every single basic economic strategy that's been around for decades, and what used to be duccessful in the past, doesn't work today. Why is that? Guess if someone could figure that out, maybe things would begin to turn around, and there would be a more positive outcome down the road.
There are ways to regulate the health insurance industry without passing bills that would cost you and me, not to mention the national defecit more money. The credit industry has recently gone through tighter regulations...why is this not an option / Why do we have to create another program that will inevitably cost us more money and higher taxes. You complain about the cost of insurance, yet if you keep yours and still pay the insuranc etax, did your policy just increase due to taxes?
90% of those being foreclosed on bought to much house for their income.My wife did this with her house before we got married...we had to sell it, after the economy crashed, in a shortsale...not a foreclosur.....but still a costly thing. especially to credit rating and our tax filing.
The reason the past economic molds aren't working is we dont stick to them......when things start to get good, we throw them out and go back to splurging..
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315257
You don't even know what the cost is going to be. Neither do I. When the exact cost is known, I'll evaluate my options. If this ObamaCare is more expensive to obtain than what I currently pay for my health insurance, I'll stick with my current coverage. That's what I was told I could do. "If you have insurance now, you do nothing." Will my taxes go up because of the program? Don't know that either. Where does it say everybody will get free health insurance? The program I read about stated EVERYONE has to pay something. To offset the cost for the lower and middle incomes, they want to tax incomes over $250,000. Do I think that's right? Of course not. But how else do you pay for it? Health insurance rates have gone up anywhere between 5% - 10% every single year for the last decade. I know because I've seen my rates go up, with higher deductibles, and higher Out-Of-Pocket maxes. The lower and middle incomes have to choose between health insurance, or eating and a roof over their head. If you go with the "Same 'Ole Same "Ole" logic, and keep things status quo, nothing will change with insurance providers and the medical industry. One catastrophic injury and BAM! You're homeless.
Do I agree with runaway spending? Nope. Unfortunately as you stated, people run their credit up the hilt to "Stay up with the Joneses". However, there's many Americans who have run up credit debt because that's the only way they can put food on the table, or keep their house from being foreclosed on. We're in a "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" mentality these days when it comes to the economy in this country. Seems like they've tried every single basic economic strategy that's been around for decades, and what used to be duccessful in the past, doesn't work today. Why is that? Guess if someone could figure that out, maybe things would begin to turn around, and there would be a more positive outcome down the road.
There are ways to regulate the health insurance industry without passing bills that would cost you and me, not to mention the national defecit more money. The credit industry has recently gone through tighter regulations...why is this not an option / Why do we have to create another program that will inevitably cost us more money and higher taxes. You complain about the cost of insurance, yet if you keep yours and still pay the insuranc etax, did your policy just increase due to taxes?
90% of those being foreclosed on bought to much house for their income.My wife did this with her house before we got married...we had to sell it, after the economy crashed, in a shortsale...not a foreclosur.....but still a costly thing. especially to credit rating and our tax filing.
The reason the past economic molds aren't working is we dont stick to them......when things start to get good, we throw them out and go back to splurging..
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315261
There are ways to regulate the health insurance industry without passing bills that would cost you and me, not to mention the national defecit more money. The credit industry has recently gone through tighter regulations...why is this not an option / Why do we have to create another program that will inevitably cost us more money and higher taxes. You complain about the cost of insurance, yet if you keep yours and still pay the insuranc etax, did your policy just increase due to taxes?
90% of those being foreclosed on bought to much house for their income.My wife did this with her house before we got married...we had to sell it, after the economy crashed, in a shortsale...not a foreclosur.....but still a costly thing. especially to credit rating and our tax filing.
The reason the past economic molds aren't working is we dont stick to them......when things start to get good, we throw them out and go back to splurging..
They've been talking healthcare regulations since Carter. That industry has so many PAC's in so many political pockets, you'd never see any decent regulation. The only reason the credit card industry got regulated is because the TARP gave the Feds more control over them to enact that legislation.
Again, I have to wait and see what the cost will be. I may have to pay more taxes, but if my current rates drop due to competition, or the Fed plan is cheaper, then it's just a wash.
Don't tell the people who are being foreclosed on left and right up in the Northeast that it's because they bought too much house, For them, it was losing a decent job at an automotive plant, or some other job. I have a couple friends up in the Michigan area that have been looking for jobs for over a year and haven't gotten any bites. They maje due taking temp and contractor jobs, but it's no where close to what they used to make.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315261
There are ways to regulate the health insurance industry without passing bills that would cost you and me, not to mention the national defecit more money. The credit industry has recently gone through tighter regulations...why is this not an option / Why do we have to create another program that will inevitably cost us more money and higher taxes. You complain about the cost of insurance, yet if you keep yours and still pay the insuranc etax, did your policy just increase due to taxes?
90% of those being foreclosed on bought to much house for their income.My wife did this with her house before we got married...we had to sell it, after the economy crashed, in a shortsale...not a foreclosur.....but still a costly thing. especially to credit rating and our tax filing.
The reason the past economic molds aren't working is we dont stick to them......when things start to get good, we throw them out and go back to splurging..
They've been talking healthcare regulations since Carter. That industry has so many PAC's in so many political pockets, you'd never see any decent regulation. The only reason the credit card industry got regulated is because the TARP gave the Feds more control over them to enact that legislation.
Again, I have to wait and see what the cost will be. I may have to pay more taxes, but if my current rates drop due to competition, or the Fed plan is cheaper, then it's just a wash.
Don't tell the people who are being foreclosed on left and right up in the Northeast that it's because they bought too much house, For them, it was losing a decent job at an automotive plant, or some other job. I have a couple friends up in the Michigan area that have been looking for jobs for over a year and haven't gotten any bites. They maje due taking temp and contractor jobs, but it's no where close to what they used to make.
bionicarm
Active Member
This is the reality of the gap between the rich and poor. You tell me what the solution is...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39466469/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39466469/ns/business-eye_on_the_economy/
monsinour
Active Member
As a New Yorker who is currently trying to attain affordable health insurance let me way in on this one. I am also a business owner and hubby is collecting unemployment. Why? Because the economy is horrid right now and there are more people in his field looking for the same job that he is. Most of the time he is told he has too much experience and would need too high of a salary, even though he's willing to take what he can find. Their fear, from an emplyers stand point, once he can find something better he'll leave, so why not pay someone less experienced who would be more apt to be happy with that level of income? He WANTS to work. It is driving him crazy not to be working. There are MANY people I know in the exact same boat. They want to work but just cannot find the work. NY taxes the heck out of all of us. I don't like the stereotype that everyone on assistance are just lazy baby-makers. It's simply not true. There are true, hardworking people that for one reason or another, have fallen on financial hard times. Is the system perfect? Of course not, but what is? And I do know in NY, at least a few years ago, if you were on welfare you were required to perform community service through volunteer work. The type most people would not want to do. That was a way to motivate people to find work.
I have been working since I was 15. I worked 3 jobs all through high school, I have not been without a job since then, but I am fortunate to be in an industry where the demand far outways the supply. That and I happen to be very good at what i do. I know I could go just about anywhere and immediately find work. It's just not that way in many other professions.
For me to obtain health insurance through my business, I am looking at about $350 a month. Now, I don't consider that very high because I've gotten used to the costs here in NY, but when we lived in Ohio and I had insurance through our group health plan I paid $62 and my boss paid the additional $40 or so dollars. I remember people complaining they thought that was sky high. Through hubby's last job we paid $300 a month for their group plan for just him and me. We had other coverage for the kids. I now have some health issues and NEED to be insured so that I can get the tests and everything I need done. The state program they have for low income families and small businesses here costs about $250 and is a joke with what it covers. I had it through my last job since she was a small business and it was fine for my pre-natal care and well visits, but that was it. Then she went with a private company and I was paing $250 a month for just myself (With the previous program she paid $80 of it) but I had vision and dental as well. I look at health insurance as I do car insurance, you have to have it. It's just taken me a while to shop around and find what I needed and what I could afford. It can be very discouraging when you get quotes of insurance for $1K a month for the bare essential coverage and a huge deductible.
I have been working since I was 15. I worked 3 jobs all through high school, I have not been without a job since then, but I am fortunate to be in an industry where the demand far outways the supply. That and I happen to be very good at what i do. I know I could go just about anywhere and immediately find work. It's just not that way in many other professions.
For me to obtain health insurance through my business, I am looking at about $350 a month. Now, I don't consider that very high because I've gotten used to the costs here in NY, but when we lived in Ohio and I had insurance through our group health plan I paid $62 and my boss paid the additional $40 or so dollars. I remember people complaining they thought that was sky high. Through hubby's last job we paid $300 a month for their group plan for just him and me. We had other coverage for the kids. I now have some health issues and NEED to be insured so that I can get the tests and everything I need done. The state program they have for low income families and small businesses here costs about $250 and is a joke with what it covers. I had it through my last job since she was a small business and it was fine for my pre-natal care and well visits, but that was it. Then she went with a private company and I was paing $250 a month for just myself (With the previous program she paid $80 of it) but I had vision and dental as well. I look at health insurance as I do car insurance, you have to have it. It's just taken me a while to shop around and find what I needed and what I could afford. It can be very discouraging when you get quotes of insurance for $1K a month for the bare essential coverage and a huge deductible.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315328
They've been talking healthcare regulations since Carter. That industry has so many PAC's in so many political pockets, you'd never see any decent regulation. The only reason the credit card industry got regulated is because the TARP gave the Feds more control over them to enact that legislation.
Again, I have to wait and see what the cost will be. I may have to pay more taxes, but if my current rates drop due to competition, or the Fed plan is cheaper, then it's just a wash.
Don't tell the people who are being foreclosed on left and right up in the Northeast that it's because they bought too much house, For them, it was losing a decent job at an automotive plant, or some other job. I have a couple friends up in the Michigan area that have been looking for jobs for over a year and haven't gotten any bites. They maje due taking temp and contractor jobs, but it's no where close to what they used to make.
We are giving more people coverage and covering them for more things. How the hell do you think that isn't going to increase your costs? Insurance companies don't make the kind of margins where they are going to be willing to absorb anything so of course they will bump rates, increase deductibles and anything else they need to do.
There are plenty of people who are in trouble because they bought more house than they could afford too and they are getting bailed out. I would really have no issue with the government coming up with a program that would force banks to suspend house payments for a period of time is someone became unemployed but I'd limit the time period and the number of times the homeowner would be able to have their loan frozen. As far as people who overbought or were too stupid to read the terms of their loan they can move into a cardboard box for all I care.
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315328
They've been talking healthcare regulations since Carter. That industry has so many PAC's in so many political pockets, you'd never see any decent regulation. The only reason the credit card industry got regulated is because the TARP gave the Feds more control over them to enact that legislation.
Again, I have to wait and see what the cost will be. I may have to pay more taxes, but if my current rates drop due to competition, or the Fed plan is cheaper, then it's just a wash.
Don't tell the people who are being foreclosed on left and right up in the Northeast that it's because they bought too much house, For them, it was losing a decent job at an automotive plant, or some other job. I have a couple friends up in the Michigan area that have been looking for jobs for over a year and haven't gotten any bites. They maje due taking temp and contractor jobs, but it's no where close to what they used to make.
We are giving more people coverage and covering them for more things. How the hell do you think that isn't going to increase your costs? Insurance companies don't make the kind of margins where they are going to be willing to absorb anything so of course they will bump rates, increase deductibles and anything else they need to do.
There are plenty of people who are in trouble because they bought more house than they could afford too and they are getting bailed out. I would really have no issue with the government coming up with a program that would force banks to suspend house payments for a period of time is someone became unemployed but I'd limit the time period and the number of times the homeowner would be able to have their loan frozen. As far as people who overbought or were too stupid to read the terms of their loan they can move into a cardboard box for all I care.
bionicarm
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315354
We are giving more people coverage and covering them for more things. How the hell do you think that isn't going to increase your costs? Insurance companies don't make the kind of margins where they are going to be willing to absorb anything so of course they will bump rates, increase deductibles and anything else they need to do.
There are plenty of people who are in trouble because they bought more house than they could afford too and they are getting bailed out. I would really have no issue with the government coming up with a program that would force banks to suspend house payments for a period of time is someone became unemployed but I'd limit the time period and the number of times the homeowner would be able to have their loan frozen. As far as people who overbought or were too stupid to read the terms of their loan they can move into a cardboard box for all I care.
What's wrong with providing more coverage for more things? Isn't that what insurance is for? Why shouldn't you be able to have the comfort knowing your insurance will pay for that heart valve replacement when you have no family history of that type of illness? So what, you want some cookie-cutter health insurance that only pays for specific illnesses? Cancer isn't only contracted by people with family histories of that disease. No one really knows how someone contracts a specific form of cancer. If they knew that, they'd erradicate the disease. Yea, people can begin to live healthier lifestyles to avoid certain diseases, but again, you have just as many detractors out there saying you have the same risk of getting a heart attack by living off a Tofu diet than you do a Big Mac diet. You want insurance companies to "make their margins"? Give me a break. Tell that to the Katrina and Ike victims. People along the Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi coast paid BILLIONS in insurance premiums for years to protect their homes from damage from hurricanes. The Big One hit their areas, and the insurance providers refuse to rebuild their homes because "The hurricane force winds didn't damage your home, the floods did. You insurance only provided for wind damage, not flood damage. SORRY." Same thing with health insurance. How many people have had claims denied because the insurance company claimed the injury or disease was from a "pre-existing condition"? "Oh you had clogged arteries because of your fatty diet. That's what caused your heart attack, so your claim is denied." I have absolutely no sympathy for insurance companies. They have no problems raking in the premiums during the "good times". But when it comes time to use your insurance, they all of a sudden find ways to 'dissallow this' and 'disallow that'. Then add insult to injury, they cancel your insurance due to excessive claims.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///forum/thread/380834/redistribution-of-wealth#post_3315354
We are giving more people coverage and covering them for more things. How the hell do you think that isn't going to increase your costs? Insurance companies don't make the kind of margins where they are going to be willing to absorb anything so of course they will bump rates, increase deductibles and anything else they need to do.
There are plenty of people who are in trouble because they bought more house than they could afford too and they are getting bailed out. I would really have no issue with the government coming up with a program that would force banks to suspend house payments for a period of time is someone became unemployed but I'd limit the time period and the number of times the homeowner would be able to have their loan frozen. As far as people who overbought or were too stupid to read the terms of their loan they can move into a cardboard box for all I care.
What's wrong with providing more coverage for more things? Isn't that what insurance is for? Why shouldn't you be able to have the comfort knowing your insurance will pay for that heart valve replacement when you have no family history of that type of illness? So what, you want some cookie-cutter health insurance that only pays for specific illnesses? Cancer isn't only contracted by people with family histories of that disease. No one really knows how someone contracts a specific form of cancer. If they knew that, they'd erradicate the disease. Yea, people can begin to live healthier lifestyles to avoid certain diseases, but again, you have just as many detractors out there saying you have the same risk of getting a heart attack by living off a Tofu diet than you do a Big Mac diet. You want insurance companies to "make their margins"? Give me a break. Tell that to the Katrina and Ike victims. People along the Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi coast paid BILLIONS in insurance premiums for years to protect their homes from damage from hurricanes. The Big One hit their areas, and the insurance providers refuse to rebuild their homes because "The hurricane force winds didn't damage your home, the floods did. You insurance only provided for wind damage, not flood damage. SORRY." Same thing with health insurance. How many people have had claims denied because the insurance company claimed the injury or disease was from a "pre-existing condition"? "Oh you had clogged arteries because of your fatty diet. That's what caused your heart attack, so your claim is denied." I have absolutely no sympathy for insurance companies. They have no problems raking in the premiums during the "good times". But when it comes time to use your insurance, they all of a sudden find ways to 'dissallow this' and 'disallow that'. Then add insult to injury, they cancel your insurance due to excessive claims.