Republican Candidates

[notsonoob]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Well according to his post he was talking about a theoretical situation, three people making different amounts of money but all spending the same.
Basically if we only have sales tax it hurts the poor who spend all their money locally on food and necessities and rich people can always spend their money out of the country...
Yes and all the rich from other countries that come here to eat too.
Problem with theories is that they have to make sense.
The more you make the more you spend...that is economics. There is no way a family making $200,000 is going to spend the same as a family making $50,000.
I've never seen any above middle class families living in a trailer park and driving an old beat up 85 chevy silverado. So if you are going for political points you have to make a point.
The marketing scams of the anti-flat tax and the national sales tax lobby.

 

[notsonoob]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Even if that is the case, the rich have the means to go out of the country to save on sales tax while the poorer are generally stuck paying local prices.. That isn't really good for our economy or our tax situation..
Have you ever been out of the country????
Everything around the world is super inflated compared to hear...or if you live in some poor, undeveloped country such as Banglidesh.
I don't see Johnny rockets going to Ethiopia just to buy a 1/2 mil cigar muncher to cruise around the harbor.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Even if that is the case, the rich have the means to go out of the country to save on sales tax while the poorer are generally stuck paying local prices.. That isn't really good for our economy or our tax situation..
You don't think the sellers overseas will see this and raise their prices to take advantage of the price difference?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by NOTSONOOB
Have you ever been out of the country????
Everything around the world is super inflated compared to hear...or if you live in some poor, undeveloped country such as Banglidesh.
I don't see Johnny rockets going to Ethiopia just to buy a 1/2 mil cigar muncher to cruise around the harbor.
Yes, I have been to many different countries and generally things are much cheaper outside of the US...
My point is people will find ways around taxes and having high sales tax encourages people to spend their money outside of these areas... Sure most people are going to buy their necessities locally, however rich people will be more likely to buy luxuries (a huge part of their spending) outside of the US.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
You don't think the sellers overseas will see this and raise their prices to take advantage of the price difference?
Not really... or if they do they will raise them only slightly so they can still undersell the US.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Not really... or if they do they will raise them only slightly so they can still undersell the US.
There are alot of reasons for different prices around the world, but generally if you want an genuine american item they are sold at a premium.

 

[notsonoob]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Yes, I have been to many different countries and generally things are much cheaper outside of the US...
My point is people will find ways around taxes and having high sales tax encourages people to spend their money outside of these areas... Sure most people are going to buy their necessities locally, however rich people will be more likely to buy luxuries (a huge part of their spending) outside of the US.
I'm not talking mexico here. I've been to alot of places too. I doubt the Rich are going to fly to England to buy an overpriced Stereo with a 220 Volt Plug to bring back to thier house
You will not find goods cheaper in Europe
You will not find goods cheaper in The Middle East
I found things just as expensive in China
These people flock for cheap goods, because they pay income tax and sales tax. YOu take away 10,000 dollars in income tax and 5,000 in property tax and thats 15,000 bucks people will spend. On top of what they already spend

 

[notsonoob]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Not really... or if they do they will raise them only slightly so they can still undersell the US.
Loads of Baloney.
In south America I paid 75 bucks for a 20 dollar pair of jeans with an American company stamp on them. WHY? because it was American and there wasn't alot of supply.
I had no choice as I split the seam

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by NOTSONOOB
I'm not talking mexico here. I've been to alot of places too. I doubt the Rich are going to fly to England to buy an overpriced Stereo with a 220 Volt Plug to bring back to thier house
You will not find goods cheaper in Europe
You will not find goods cheaper in The Middle East
I found things just as expensive in China
These people flock for cheap goods, because they pay income tax and sales tax. YOu take away 10,000 dollars in income tax and 5,000 in property tax and thats 15,000 bucks people will spend. On top of what they already spend
I have only been to Mexico a handful of times and it is not what I base my observations on. Canada, Japan, Australia, China, Thailand, & Singapore to name a few. Prices tend to be higher in the US currently for a lot of items and this is without any high sales tax. You add a high sale tax and you add to the the incentive to shop elsewhere.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by NOTSONOOB
Loads of Baloney.
In south America I paid 75 bucks for a 20 dollar pair of jeans with an American company stamp on them. WHY? because it was American and there wasn't alot of supply.
I had no choice as I split the seam

Of course you will pay more for an American product in many countries, but much less for local products. That is where the problem is. It gives non American products and edge over American products and takes money that would have been in our economy into other countries economies.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
Of course you will pay more for an American product in many countries, but much less for local products. That is where the problem is. It gives non American products and edge over American products and takes money that would have been in our economy into other countries economies.
I'm not ceeding your point, but if it was true, the real question would be how much money are we taking out of our economy by taxation and government waste, vs a the amount lost by people shopping overseas?

 

[notsonoob]

I know that Stereo equipment is cheaper in Japan, but at what cost are you going to ship it back to the US? Also, you buy goods in those countries with a sales tax you are indeed supporting the governments.
I don't think that a couple of pennies on the dollar are going to induce the mass flow of shopping you are talking about.
I've been with Europeans going nutso over prices in Jeddah, when to me they are overpriced.
I will agree that some goods are cheaper. I love shopping in my wife's country in South America, because things are very cheap! However, I don't envision spending thousands on tickets just to go there to shop. It is a convienence.
YES the rich are going to travel, but all in all, the prices in this country are not as bad as the rest of the world. My mother in law has a saying that the US gets bad chinese goods, but we get the goods that the Americans won't want. So why am I going to go shopping for worse stuff just to be on the cheap?
Granted handmade items can be made cheap, but they are for tourists...not mass waves of shoppers. Demand would swallow supply and drive costs astronomical in the droves you predict.
There is still going to be mega consumption in this country, and I doubt that the small percentage that they would instill would amount to much on your taxes.
Why would I fly to China to buy the stuff there when all the premium chinese stuff is already in Walmart?

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
I'm not ceeding your point, but if it was true, the real question would be how much money are we taking out of our economy by taxation and government waste, vs a the amount lost by people shopping overseas?
I have no idea.. I am just mentioning points that should be considered when looking at such a drastic change to the way we tax.
Maybe it would work, but currently I have seen insufficient evidence that shows that these scenerios will work.
In the end I doubt Pastor Huckabee will win any more states and even if by some strange chain of events he were to become president he would be unable to impliment this proposed change so I doubt we will ever find out how it would work out.
Also, I am not really talking about shipping goods back to the US. The scenerios I think of involve rich people using the money the save on income tax and spending it on vacations and maybe even assets in other countries.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I have no idea.. I am just mentioning points that should be considered when looking at such a drastic change to the way we tax.
Maybe it would work, but currently I have seen insufficient evidence that shows that these scenerios will work.
In the end I doubt Pastor Huckabee will win any more states and even if by some strange chain of events he were to become president he would be unable to impliment this proposed change so I doubt we will ever find out how it would work out.
Also, I am not really talking about shipping goods back to the US. The scenerios I think of involve rich people using the money the save on income tax and spending it on vacations and maybe even assets in other countries.
Without any major support in the conservative media, he won't make it.

 

[jerthunter]

How about a local level example. Cleveland is located in one of the highest sales taxed counties in Ohio and I live one county west where our sales tax is lower (~1% I believe). When I worked in retail I would get large numbers of wealthy people from the Cleveland area who would spend the extra time and money on gas so they could save on sales tax. Of course that was good for me, helped my sales and helped our local economy.
Strangely I did not get many small sales from people who traveled the 30 minutes. Most people aren't going to go out of their way to save a few dollars but on big items they will go out of their way.
There are large groups of people who have HUGE amounts of disposable income and generally these people have that much money because they know how to keep it. So if you have a huge amount of money and want to get the most for each dollar there is an increased draw to look for places to get the same products without paying higher sales tax.

 

[stdreb27]

But the real question with Huckabee, is who is right, his camp that calls him a conservative, tough on taxes, immagration, government spending, or the folks who call him a wolf in sheeps cothes.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
How about a local level example. Cleveland is located in one of the highest sales taxed counties in Ohio and I live one county west where our sales tax is lower (~1% I believe). When I worked in retail I would get large numbers of wealthy people from the Cleveland area who would spend the extra time and money on gas so they could save on sales tax. Of course that was good for me, helped my sales and helped our local economy.
Strangely I did not get many small sales from people who traveled the 30 minutes. Most people aren't going to go out of their way to save a few dollars but on big items they will go out of their way.
There are large groups of people who have HUGE amounts of disposable income and generally these people have that much money because they know how to keep it. So if you have a huge amount of money and want to get the most for each dollar there is an increased draw to look for places to get the same products without paying higher sales tax.
there are also no barriers to entry, to cross county lines. To enter the US there is.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
Without any major support in the conservative media, he won't make it.
I think anyone who wants to see a republican president should be glad if he doen't get the nomination. He wouldn't get many middle of the road votes in my opinion so if he did win the nomination I feel he would lose in a landslide in an election..
Super conservative or super liberal condidates may appeal to the core voters that show up for caucuses (did I spell that correctly?) and primaries but tend to scare away middle of the road votes in elections.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
there are also no barriers to entry, to cross county lines. To enter the US there is.
Yes, there are some differences.
I still think these issues need to be addressed before anyone seriously tries to change the current tax method to just sales tax.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Jerthunter
I think anyone who wants to see a republican president should be glad if he doen't get the nomination. He wouldn't get many middle of the road votes in my opinion so if he did win the nomination I feel he would lose in a landslide in an election..
Super conservative or super liberal condidates may appeal to the core voters that show up for caucuses (did I spell that correctly?) and primaries but tend to scare away middle of the road votes in elections.
All these guys are "middle of the road to left of the road republicans" why aren't we seeing massive support for these turkeys. If that is the case. Reagan was a far right conservative who won in land slide elections.

This whole "appeal to the middle" doesn't seem to float. Bush appealed to the "middle." It doesn't work.