Republican Candidates

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
You keep skipping over the fact that every major intelligence agency in the world agreed with Bush's statements. Did they lie?
also, actually Sadaam had from 1991 till 2003 to disarm and provide proof, how much more time did we need to give him?
They may have lied, because if their intelligence was true...why did they criticize our involvement?
Another question? Why are we giving Billions to Pakistan who doesn't seem to be cooperating. Are we buying them or attempting to do so?
Last question..why does Bush want permanent bases in Iraq, and he said he will do so w/o Congress approval?
I just feel there are a lot of things going on that we have no clue about. Oh, one more question...what did Bush's Middle East visit do? He says they will have peace in Palestine/Israel, yet in the latest report.. I read about a wall being seiged and torn down and 50,000 people fleeing to Egypt. It seems like its the Exodus in reverse...

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Tarball
It was unknown facilities, Why because they weren't nuclear, chemical, or biological facility. Do think if they were fully functional facilities, Clinton would of had them destroyed

What do you think the civilian casualty count would of been.
So you agree Clinton lied then...Good

 

[darthtang aw]

Rylan And Tarball, Read The Link I Provided It Answers Your Questions, Or Is This To Hard And Might Counter Your Beliefs?
Oh and instead of asking a question in response to our answers and questions back, you might answer our questions in return, this is how a debate is supposed to be done.

 

[tarball]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
The study is based off the angle that Bush and the administration were lying about WMDs in the first place. The study no where shows or proves he was. Again, every intelligence agency in the modern world confirmed Sadaam had WMDs. Why do you keep skipping over that, and did you read my link at all? Doubt it as it is very long and a lot of information.
I doubt you would accept anything as proof, because it would force you to admit you are "Wrong". If a person can't see Bush for what he is at this day & time. There will be no reaching the truth or facts for them. Why are people so naive & willfully blind?

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Tarball
I doubt you would accept anything as proof, because it would force you to admit you are "Wrong". If a person can't see Bush for what he is at this day & time. There will be no reaching the truth or facts.. Why are people so naive & willfully blind?
Again, did you read the link? And ytou call me blind yet you refuse to even consider the possibility we might be right. I read ever link posted here, even Rylan's that disagrees with my views. Yet you have yet to read mine...again, who is naive and and willfully blind?

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Tarball
Why did, Germany, France, Russia, China, vote against the Invasion, & insist inspectors be givin more time?
You want to talk corruption, lets talk about Russia, trading its vote for oil? Ever head of the oil for food scandal? How can you have any credibility when the son of the president of the organization is making BILLIONS in the oil for food scandal. What is truely appalling, is that you wouldn't be saying a word, if George W. Bush (d) appeared on the news screen.
Seriously, your arguments don't make sense, "bush lied", the UN is the answer, (look at Congo war has been over for over 5 years, and it is still a real mess) the UN is running that. Oh colin powell resigned that means Bush lied.
Mired in "scandal" is just laughable. Scooter Libby got thrown off the bus for less than what Clinton did. You want a real scandal look at the clintons, ever heard of norman shu? That is a real scandal. This trumped up Bush lied scandal is just that trumped up. If you are going to argue, at least do me a favor and make sense.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
If you read my link you might actually learn why they may have voted the way they did......but reading something longer than a paragraph of information appears to be to much for you and Rylan. Continue to be uninformed and rehash the standard Bush lied comment
I'll make time for your link, but things just don't add up. My honest opinion is that something corrupt or that there is a hidden agenda going on and that we have been mislead by our gov't or this admin.
All I'm saying is that if you look at all this from the start to now...something is not right... Hussein and Bin Laden once had USA support... some even say Hussein had ties w/ CIA... then you go to the Desert Storm...911. Iraq war to now... I'm not a conspiracy theorist.. but if take all the info we have... it doesn't add up.
Its true (right?) that we aided Bin Laden against the USSR... well since we helped them... what is the cause of his violence against us.

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Tarball
I doubt you would accept anything as proof, because it would force you to admit you are "Wrong". If a person can't see Bush for what he is at this day & time. There will be no reaching the truth or facts for them. Why are people so naive & willfully blind?
See this is where you are wrong, I've looked at both sides, there are good argument both ways, none of which you have brought up. But after weighing both I think the conclusion is clear.
Have you listened to what your politicians are saying, Murtha, Reid, pelosi, every time they have attacked bush, from turture at guantanomo, to loosing the war in Iraq, they have later once there was no way to deny it has changed their tune. And yet Bush has stayed true to his course.

 

[darthtang aw]

We provided Hussein and Bin Laden with conventional weapons to fight off Russia and Russia backed Iran.
Russia sold Iraq 99% of their chemical and biological weapons and the information to make them, not us. This is one reason Russia voted no, they were making a lot of money off of this endeavor...Sadaam never verbally threatened Francer, Russia, and China. He did verbally threaten the U.S. and England numerous times before the war...why do you think this is, because the other 3 countries were his suppliers.....and you wonder why the voted no?

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I'll make time for your link, but things just don't add up. My honest opinion is that something corrupt or that there is a hidden agenda going on and that we have been mislead by our gov't or this admin.
All I'm saying is that if you look at all this from the start to now...something is not right... Hussein and Bin Laden once had USA support... some even say Hussein had ties w/ CIA... then you go to the Desert Storm...911. Iraq war to now... I'm not a conspiracy theorist.. but if take all the info we have... it doesn't add up.
Its true (right?) that we aided Bin Laden against the USSR... well since we helped them... what is the cause of his violence against us.

I agree something much bigger is going on or was and we don't have all the info yet, I don't think anyone does, However to say Bush lied is beyond me to understand.

 

[tarball]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Again, did you read the link? And ytou call me blind yet you refuse to even consider the possibility we might be right. I read ever link posted here, even Rylan's that disagrees with my views. Yet you have yet to read mine...again, who is naive and and willfully blind?
No i haven't read the link, but I will after this comment.
I know for a fact bush had full intentions of invading Iraq & staying. Unlike he said at the beginning, using the excuse of going into Iraq for WMDs Then pulling troops out.
September of 2002, I read a fully written document by William Krystal describing in detail about the upcoming actions in the Middle East. I've sat back & watched it unfold up to this date. & I've also watched bush lie threw his stone face all the way thru it, up to this date. This is a fact & the honest to God truth. I have no reason to lie about it nor am I interested in impressing anyone or need their attention. Its just the truth whether it bothers people or not.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
You want to talk corruption, lets talk about Russia, trading its vote for oil? Ever head of the oil for food scandal? How can you have any credibility when the son of the president of the organization is making BILLIONS in the oil for food scandal. What is truely appalling, is that you wouldn't be saying a word, if George W. Bush (d) appeared on the news screen.
Seriously, your arguments don't make sense, "bush lied", the UN is the answer, (look at Congo war has been over for over 5 years, and it is still a real mess) the UN is running that. Oh colin powell resigned that means Bush lied.
Mired in "scandal" is just laughable. Scooter Libby got thrown off the bus for less than what Clinton did. You want a real scandal look at the clintons, ever heard of norman shu? That is a real scandal. This trumped up Bush lied scandal is just that trumped up. If you are going to argue, at least do me a favor and make sense.
The outing of a CIA agent who's husband was going to say something about the admin is more serious than an affair. There has been a lot of scandalous actions made by this admin.
Since 1998 there have 5.4 million people killed in Congo. This is the most serious human rights tragedy in the world, yet it gets no attention. We act like we are the World Police, but we do nothing here except maybe throw a little money towards the situation... We give 10 Billion to Pakistan... This rivals Holocust/WWII deaths.
In regards to Colin Powell I think he resigned because his conscience was unconfortable w the lies and misleading of facts by this Admin... And the fact that he hasn't come out and said anything tells me that his reasons are much more than he wanted to retire from public life. IMO it says alot by the way he resigned and the timing.

 

[reefraff]

Why does Bush want pernament bases in Iraq? Not sure if he does.
http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news3/latimes122.htm
You get away from the agenda and propaganda based websites you can get facts. Gates has recently said he favored a "protracted" us presence along the lines of what we did in Germany and South Korea but nothing has been settled on yet. Having some military presence there at least long enough for Iraq to develop some kind of military structure makes sense assuming they get their crap together.

 

[reefraff]

Nice quotes complete with links to supporting evidence showing many Democrats who were in office during the Clinton administration believed Iraq still had the WMD's they were KNOWN to have in the late 90's. Kinda flies in the face of the "Bush lied" theory unless of course Clinton also lied. I guess that's possible but would would the motive be for both men to lie about the WMD's?
http://www.americandaily.com/article/4694

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
Nice quotes complete with links to supporting evidence showing many Democrats who were in office during the Clinton administration believed Iraq still had the WMD's they were KNOWN to have in the late 90's. Kinda flies in the face of the "Bush lied" theory unless of course Clinton also lied. I guess that's possible but would would the motive be for both men to lie about the WMD's?
http://www.americandaily.com/article/4694
I don't know those sites... I get alot for places like CNN which are likely to be more credible. My question is who does everyone else get their information from? Since Bush is #1 guy... I would think he has access to information that Congress and other don't. So this could work both ways... it just seems like he mislead everyone to believe in a unfounded threats..due in part to the fear created by 911

 

[stdreb27]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The outing of a CIA agent who's husband was going to say something about the admin is more serious than an affair. There has been a lot of scandalous actions made by this admin.
Since 1998 there have 5.4 million people killed in Congo. This is the most serious human rights tragedy in the world, yet it gets no attention. We act like we are the World Police, but we do nothing here except maybe throw a little money towards the situation... We give 10 Billion to Pakistan... This rivals Holocust/WWII deaths.
In regards to Colin Powell I think he resigned because his conscience was unconfortable w the lies and misleading of facts by this Admin... And the fact that he hasn't come out and said anything tells me that his reasons are much more than he wanted to retire from public life. IMO it says alot by the way he resigned and the timing.
Seriously man, you need to think for your self, your too smart to be a liberal. But as to what you said.
How much more out do you have to be posing on the COVER of VANITY FAIR with your husband. Second, she was not a clandestine agent, she was an employee who worked in the building. There were not even any indictments regarding the original charge.
The only charge was brought up on perjury, the exact same thing Clinton did. Clintons crime wasn't humping an intern. It was perjury. And if Scooter Libby lied he is a moron.
As for Congo, we aren't doing anything, the UN is like the democrats would have had us deal with Iraq. The UN has been in there since 99 and still there are major problems. If the UN was worth their salt and the democrats held the UN to the same standards as they hold the republicans, then where is the outcry, the timetable to leave, why isn't it already working.
Colin Powell had his reasons, me or you will never know, but IMO if he did resign for your reasons, he would have used his pulpit to help convince the american people to see his side. But who really knows.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Tarball
Why did, Germany, France, Russia, China, vote against the Invasion, & insist inspectors be givin more time?
The same reason they refused to stop Hitler when he occupied the Rhine, annexed Austria and forcibly dissolved Czeck...
Feel free to Google it. Numerous sources quote the leading Foreign Intel Agencies as saying exactly what I quoted them as saying.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Tarball
It was unknown facilities, Why because they weren't nuclear, chemical, or biological facility. Do think if they were fully functional facilities, Clinton would of had them destroyed

What do you think the civilian casualty count would of been.
Show me exactly ONE quote from Clinton saying he bombed "unknown" facilities in 1998. One... that's all I'm asking for.
I've quoted President Clinton's exact words... Nowhere did he say "unknown".

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Tarball
... Its just the truth whether it bothers people or not.
Tarball, if you did read a memo like that I suspect you are violating some aspect of National Security by discussing it here.
If that is in fact the truth, it doesn't bother me one freakin bit. Saddam should have been removed under Clinton the first time he violated the Desert Storm Peace Agreement and engaged one of our planes in the No Fly Zone.
What the "Bush lied" crowd fail to remember are the myriad of reasons we went into Iraq. 17 UN Resolutions (That Russia and China among others did agree too), locking out the inspectors, dismantling the electronic inspection equipment of the UN, failing to keep up his part of the Peace Agreement signed after Desert Storm, and numerous aggressive military actions against Allied planes enforcing the No Fly Zone. WMDs were certainly also a reason, but they were far from the only one...
All Saddam had to do to stay in power was abide by the agreed to UN Inspectors....

 

[tarball]

Originally Posted by stdreb27
See this is where you are wrong, I've looked at both sides, there are good argument both ways, none of which you have brought up. But after weighing both I think the conclusion is clear.
Have you listened to what your politicians are saying, Murtha, Reid, pelosi, every time they have attacked bush, from turture at guantanomo, to loosing the war in Iraq, they have later once there was no way to deny it has changed their tune. And yet Bush has stayed true to his course.
Yes I have listened to the politicians, & its become a unanimous decision they feel betrayed by Bush & his so called intelligence.
Its true Bush has stayed true to his intent. The high powers of the GOP, Corporate America & Global banking systems want the unsecured oil reserves in the Middle east secured.
The best way to do this is Changing Governments in Iraq and Iran, Military bases in the Middle East. Using the Oil reserves to secure financing for rebuilding of Iraq & Iran. And replacing what is considered radical governments by globalists to a more conformative governement leaning towards world banking idealism.
Has nothing to do with WMDs or terrorism. be afraid

be very afraid

The sandman is coming to get you...

Get real people, Pakistan & Saudi arabia have always been the greatest state thats supporting terrorism in our history as known.