Right or Not ???

[teresaq]

I can tell you its not cheaper to adopt overseas, yes it is safer, you wont have a birthmother or father knocking on your door or ripping you off. one of the main reasons so many are going over seas is because of the lack of american babies. It also takes a lot longer. the current wait time for china is 24 mnths, after the 6 monthe it takes to do all the paperwork. So you are looking at waiting 2 1/2 yrs to become a parent. not an easy process.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
I can tell you its not cheaper to adopt overseas, yes it is safer, you wont have a birthmother or father knocking on your door or ripping you off. one of the main reasons so many are going over seas is because of the lack of american babies. It also takes a lot longer. the current wait time for china is 24 mnths, after the 6 monthe it takes to do all the paperwork. So you are looking at waiting 2 1/2 yrs to become a parent. not an easy process.
From what I've read there are plenty of non white and interacial babies/children waiting to be adopted in the us, it's the white babies that are hard to adopt. If I am wrong please correct.

 

[teresaq]

also a misleading statement. there are older kids age ten and up and most of those are so screwed up, it would take a miracle worker to help them lead a normal life. . most people i know (my self included) have adopted interracial, hispanic, and they still waited 2 to 5 yrs.

 

[jmick]

I feel for those kids, I couldn't imagine being stuck in foster care for years and years with no one to love you and to think what kind of futures they have before them.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by 30-xtra high
1. you can't use the arguement that they baby doesn't get to live... the babyb doesn't know that.
2. there are so many orphans i'm sure the adoptive parents will get another.
3. it stops the mother from thinking about where her child is and what he/she is doing, therefor reminding her of when she was raped.
4. why are we so hung up on ----?... thats just 1 way. what about teen pregnancies?, what if the parents just aren't ready...
1. How do you know? Wether the baby is concious of this or not, when its aborted, a life will never be realized.
2. There are so many orphans because there are so many stupid people. If stupid people wouldnt breed there would not be so many orphans. Abortion makes this easier for stupid people to breed because it gives them an easy and convienient alternative.
3. See previous post, many Mothers who abort babies are traumatized also, maybe not to the extent of a ---- victim but when they learn exactly what occurs during an abortion the realazation of murder often sets in, this cannot be undone. An adopted child always has the possiblity of being re-united with his or her biological parents. An aborted one does not.
4. Dont know, didnt bring it up. Teen pregnancies? where are the parents? if they are not ready then why are the parents allowing them to be alone long enough to breed and why havent the parents taught them about contraception? or if adults and not ready then refer to answer 2.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
also a misleading statement. there are older kids age ten and up and most of those are so screwed up, it would take a miracle worker to help them lead a normal life. . most people i know (my self included) have adopted interracial, hispanic, and they still waited 2 to 5 yrs.
Why is it so hard to adopt in the US, I can't imagine there are more people wanting to adopt then there are little ones waiting to be adopted.

 

[teresaq]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Why is it so hard to adopt in the US, I can't imagine there are more people wanting to adopt then there are little ones waiting to be adopted.
I wish I knew. I belong to several suport groups, and with teens keeping thier babies, the mornng after pill, and abortion, there just arent that many babies.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by TeresaQ
I wish I knew. I belong to several suport groups, and with teens keeping thier babies, the mornng after pill, and abortion, there just arent that many babies.
My wife and I have talked about adopting our next child and I just can't picture us going over seas to adopt and the thought of adopting an older child who could be dangerous to our little ones isn't ideal. Perhaps we will stop at 2 and be happy with that. I do think the world of anyone who adopts and extends love to a child, it's an amazing gift!

 

[jlem]

I really hate to comment on topics like this but I want to. I hate when people throw out situations that occur rarely and yett are used to justify a belief. Just because a 12 year old occasionally gets knocked up does not make the case for abortin being legalized for the rest of society and just because a child may be born with a disability should not give a person the right to destroy the chance for a child to be born at all. I am ProLife purely because on my faith. I can't justify any abortion because I do believe that God never allows a mistake. I am also a stepfather and could not imagine life without my stepdaughter. If my wife would have got an abortion because she was a single mother then I would not have my step daughter in my life. I also had a very close friend in Highschool who gave her baby up for adoption rather than an abortion and now that child is 15. I don't pretend to know how a women feels and I don't try to make sense of a subject that I can't relate to like a women can. I Am Prolife because I am a Christian and I will not try to justify to God on judgement day why a future child that God allowed to be concieved should have been destroyed. I may question why God allows some stuff to happen but I never tell god he is wrong and to destroy a future child is telling God that he allowed a mistake in the conception of a child. Now I do not expect somebody who does not have faith of some sort to understand the Prolife movement because it is not in their nature. They are not born again and do not have the knowledge that you have when you realize that Christ died for everyone born and yett to be born.
Not really sure where I was going with all this but since everyone else is giving their belifs I thought I would to.

 

[teresaq]

Originally Posted by Jmick
My wife and I have talked about adopting our next child and I just can't picture us going over seas to adopt and the thought of adopting an older child who could be dangerous to our little ones isn't ideal. Perhaps we will stop at 2 and be happy with that. I do think the world of anyone who adopts and extends love to a child, it's an amazing gift!
dont get me wrong. it is posible to adopt in the us. it just takes longer then most people realize. it all depends on the type of adoption you do. an infant through foster care is near imposible. those babies are usually adopted by thier foster parents, and it could be yrs before parental rights are terminated.
if you can find your own birthmother, it could be a shorter wait, or an adoption agency that networks across the country. I was a foster parent for a private agency, and they only placed 5 to 10 babies a yr.
we have adopted thru foster care, private agency and currently waiting for a daughter from china.

 

[mr. guitar]

Originally Posted by jlem
I really hate to comment on topics like this but I want to. I hate when people throw out situations that occur rarely and yett are used to justify a belief. Just because a 12 year old occasionally gets knocked up does not make the case for abortin being legalized for the rest of society and just because a child may be born with a disability should not give a person the right to destroy the chance for a child to be born at all. I am ProLife purely because on my faith. I can't justify any abortion because I do believe that God never allows a mistake. I am also a stepfather and could not imagine life without my stepdaughter. If my wife would have got an abortion because she was a single mother then I would not have my step daughter in my life. I also had a very close friend in Highschool who gave her baby up for adoption rather than an abortion and now that child is 15. I don't pretend to know how a women feels and I don't try to make sense of a subject that I can't relate to like a women can. I Am Prolife because I am a Christian and I will not try to justify to God on judgement day why a future child that God allowed to be concieved should have been destroyed. I may question why God allows some stuff to happen but I never tell god he is wrong and to destroy a future child is telling God that he allowed a mistake in the conception of a child. Now I do not expect somebody who does not have faith of some sort to understand the Prolife movement because it is not in their nature. They are not born again and do not have the knowledge that you have when you realize that Christ died for everyone born and yett to be born.
Not really sure where I was going with all this but since everyone else is giving their belifs I thought I would to.
Amen brother!!!!!!

 

[dogstar]

Originally Posted by jlem
......occur rarely......
( from some quick research, many sites show slightly different numbers but most are still shockingly close )
Approximately one in five adolescents has had sexual intercourse before his or her 15th birthday.
Approximately one in seven sexually experienced 14-year-old girls reports having been pregnant.
That translates into about 20,000 pregnancies each year and 8,000 births.
Im not knocking your believes, just getting the numbers out there....

 

[breineach1]

I sincerely hope my question is not taken to be off-topic, but what does the Pro Life camp think about involuntary sterilization? Would that go against God's wishes to be fruitful and multiply? Instead of allowing multiple abortions (as a form of birth control) or a woman having multiple babies that she gives up for adoption, should she have the right to bear children taken away? Or a "man" who fathers multiple children with multiple women and denies responsibility for any of them?
Also, upthread I saw someone raise the question of a woman using birth control and still getting pregnant. I beg to bring that topic up again- I feel that it is a relevant point in the matter, since I have known quite a few women thrust into that situation. When two people are in a healthy relationship and (like some friends of mine that this happened to) just don't want to bring a child into this- as they see it- horrible world, they are being responsible adults and taking all the precautions they can. Should they have the right to abort their "baby" for- as they saw it- the good of the child?
And, BTW, you Pro Lifers that have adopted- I applaud you!

But all too often I have gone to my local Planned Parenthood and had to wade through the protesters to get to the door. I've taken samplings 3 times from them, asking the simple question "Do you have an adopted child at home?" Since many of the girls they scare away will give theirs up. Not a one of those hypocritical buggers had! I support Planned Parenthood and give them my business even though I could get my exam & BC for a $20 copay through my Dr. because I support what they do for young people- abortion is low on the list, but low-cost BC & confidential testing are high on that list.
Sorry for the long post but I think we have an intelligent group here with diverse backgrounds, and that always makes for the most wonderful and insightful debates!

 

[phixer]

Most people arent thrust in to the situation that created the unwanted pregnancy unless it was a ---- so why should they be relieved of the responsibility that comes from consequences of thier actions?
Why should another little baby be sliced up and dumped in the trash because some stupid kids parents werent doing thier job. Abortion is the easy way out and abortion clinics like Planned Parenthood reduce human life to nothing more than a few hundred bucks. Pretty sad if you think about what really takes place.
When is being an adoptive parent a requirement in supporting the rights of unborn babies. There is no hypocrisy in this because each parent whether adoptive or biological loves their children the same.

 

[breineach1]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Abortion is the easy way out and abortion clinics like Planned Parenthood reduce human life to nothing more than a few hundred bucks.
Phixer, Planned Parenthood is not just an abortion clinic. Most offices do not even do abortions, mine happens to. As I said, abortions are low on the list- the main services they provide are family planning services. Gyno exams, BC prescriptions, STD testing, and counseling. Although I have never had occasion to use their counseling service, from their website: "You will discuss your options — adoption, parenting, and abortion. You may be asked if someone is pressuring you to have an abortion.
Teens are encouraged to involve parents in their decision to have an abortion, and most do have a parent involved." They DO fully support a woman's right to choose, and I do too, so I support them with my business. I also would not go to a Dr. that was anti-abortion or anti-birth control. YMMV.

Now, back to the relative thread issues: anyone have any comments on the situations described above? Namely, sterilization and whether abortion should be allowed if all other precautions have been taken & pregnancy still results?

 

[30-xtra high]

Originally Posted by Phixer
1. How do you know? Wether the baby is concious of this or not, when its aborted, a life will never be realized.
2. There are so many orphans because there are so many stupid people. If stupid people wouldnt breed there would not be so many orphans. Abortion makes this easier for stupid people to breed because it gives them an easy and convienient alternative.
3. See previous post, many Mothers who abort babies are traumatized also, maybe not to the extent of a ---- victim but when they learn exactly what occurs during an abortion the realazation of murder often sets in, this cannot be undone. An adopted child always has the possiblity of being re-united with his or her biological parents. An aborted one does not.
4. Dont know, didnt bring it up. Teen pregnancies? where are the parents? if they are not ready then why are the parents allowing them to be alone long enough to breed and why havent the parents taught them about contraception? or if adults and not ready then refer to answer 2.

no offense... but you did a really bad job of trying to prove me wrong...
1. you can't remember when you were a day old can you?... exactly... no.
2. are you trying to prove my point?... yea, adoption just lets them continue with their stupidity., its an easy way out, at least with an abortion they'll stop.
3. well thats their fault for choosing abortion... they could of had the baby but decided to abort it, its their choice.
4. are you kiding me?... yea... the parents should hound them constantly... and "time to breed"... oh yea, all 10 minutes?

 

[phixer]

Not trying to prove you wrong, Im sure you will have an opinion no matter what the truth is. Just glad we can both count to 4.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by 30-xtra high
no offense... but you did a really bad job of trying to prove me wrong...
1. you can't remember when you were a day old can you?... exactly... no.
2. are you trying to prove my point?... yea, adoption just lets them continue with their stupidity., its an easy way out, at least with an abortion they'll stop.
3. well thats their fault for choosing abortion... they could of had the baby but decided to abort it, its their choice.
4. are you kiding me?... yea... the parents should hound them constantly... and "time to breed"... oh yea, all 10 minutes?

Do you like being alive? Arent you glad your parents didnt feel this way.
If they did you and I wouldnt be having this conversation.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Breineach1
Phixer, Planned Parenthood is not just an abortion clinic. Most offices do not even do abortions, mine happens to. As I said, abortions are low on the list- the main services they provide are family planning services. Gyno exams, BC prescriptions, STD testing, and counseling. Although I have never had occasion to use their counseling service, from their website: "You will discuss your options — adoption, parenting, and abortion. You may be asked if someone is pressuring you to have an abortion.
Teens are encouraged to involve parents in their decision to have an abortion, and most do have a parent involved." They DO fully support a woman's right to choose, and I do too, so I support them with my business. I also would not go to a Dr. that was anti-abortion or anti-birth control. YMMV.

Now, back to the relative thread issues: anyone have any comments on the situations described above? Namely, sterilization and whether abortion should be allowed if all other precautions have been taken & pregnancy still results?
Because I support a childs right to live I guess that means Im Pro-life. Have you ever observed what an abortion looks like? The sliced off arms and legs and head. Does the little baby cry while they slice her tiny body apart? Or how about the late term abortions that seem to be the trend today. The Pro-Choice movement dosent want to acknowledge abortion for the brutal reality it really is, they want to reduce the dismemberment of little babies to a 6 letter word...choice.
Many cant handle or choose not to see abortion for what it really is, because if they did it would reveal character traits they dont want to acknowledge. Rather than taking responsibility and doing the right thing they want to catagorize human life to an annoyance like a cold, (i.e. do this and your problem will go away) What I find most hypocritical about the pro-choice movement is how someone can look at the photos of a sliced up little baby, shrug their shoulders and say ... it's only a choice. It says a lot about ones character.

 

[scubadoo]

I find it interesting that murderers of pregnant women are somtimes arrested/charged/convicted on two counts of murder..ie the Laci Peterson case. Obviously some portions of law recognize the rights of the unborn to life. However, given Pro-choice postions in law...the unborn has no right to life.
How can something that has no right to life in one area of law be murdered?
I know some will say that the baby was wanted...but really...there appears to be a HUGE inconsistency in the law based on rights of the unborn or lack thereof.
JMO