Right or Not ???

[skipperdz]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
i'm with this before i ever agree with abortion. at least adopting the baby its giving it a chance to live. why should you have the right to kill a baby when the baby did'nt ask to come to this world.
why do you have the right to tell a woman who was raped and impregnated that she must carry to term?
---- = sexual act against one's will
the only one who has say in this situation is the woman NOT RELIGION! NOT GOVERNMENT! NO ONE BUT HER!

 

[skipperdz]

Originally Posted by Pontius
thanks, I've always enjoyed talking with you as well .
but the human traits you mentioned like mercy, compassion, care, wisdom, etc. those are traits that I don't see present in a fetus that is a couple months old.
and yes, there are plenty of people that want to adopt children. but from the way I understand it, putting a child up for adoption is just as hard a decision than having an abortion, if not worse. for one thing, the mother carries the child around for over 9 months so there is a natural bond and many mothers decide against adoption or have a hard time with even though they know in their hearts that they may not be fit parents. then there's the stigma and the trouble that many adopted children have. and the regrets that both mother and child have to deal with over the years and wondering how things may have ended up different, etc etc. not saying that adoption isn't a great thing for parents that can't have babies or for giving children better lives. I'm just saying that adoption is not always a happy ending for all concerned either.
my whole feeling about it is just that it's really not my business or my place to try to mandate what some female that I'll never meet does with her own life. like I said, I would never want a wife or girlfriend of mine to have an abortion. and I think it's a sad alternative. but I just don't think it's my business to control somebody else's life when it comes to pregnancy and parenthood. even if my religious beliefs told me that abortion is the ultimate sin, I still feel that it's the individual's God given right to choose their own path. Afterall, God IS the final judge, not man. we can have normal laws against murder, assault, burglary, etc etc etc. but those are things that affect us all. some stranger getting an abortion is not something that affects me.
i thought according to the bible ( from what ive heard ) that suicide is the ultimate sin? god allegedly forgives those for murder not suicide. and many people say god forgives those who commit murder, and pro lifers say that abortion is murder. so wouldnt the mother be forgiven?
just curious

 

[skipperdz]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
That my friend we agree on.
dont forget the single fathers raising children when the mothers take off!

 

[skipperdz]

kind of got on this thread late so i was bumping around on peoples responses, not trying to upset anyone just pointing some stuff out.

 

[teresaq]

I am the mother of three adopted children and a woman that has lost a child. In my mind my baby was 14 days old-I was 14 days preg when i lost it. I do not believe in abortion except when the mothers life is at risk and or if the baby is severly deformed.
my youngest daughter was born at 29 weeks. normal preg is 40 weeks. she weighed 2.4 lbs did she deserve to live. yes. she lived on a resporator for at least a month. had heart surgury at 24 hrs old. today she turns 7.
my two oldest were born to a young girl with drug problems. did they deserve to live yes. All children deserve a chance at life. There are thousands of parents waiting to adopt children.
I know of a girl that has 17 abortions in less then 5 yrs. Is she being a responsible adult-no. Dont be fooled by age. I have been a foster parent for many yrs, and those 13 and 14 yr old girls are not as innocent as you might think. go to my space some time. yes they may not have the maturity or mentality of an older girl, but they know what they are doing. I feel they must take responsibiliy for thier actions. Either parent the child or adopt them out to loving parents. Its not the babies fault. why punish them and let the young girl continue to play. behave like an adult - pay like an adult.

 

[dcoyle11]

but the human traits you mentioned like mercy, compassion, care, wisdom, etc. those are traits that I don't see present in a fetus that is a couple months old.
QUOTE]
There are many 30 year olds that I do not see these traits in either…. it doesn’t mean they are not present...
In away I guess I agree with you that its not my issue/problem to tell a stranger what to or not to do with their pregnancy.. But as a Christian I would most definitely council against it. And in my heart feel that it’s the wrong thing to do!
for the record i enjoy talking to you too.

 

[mytank]

I am Pro-Choice all the way. A woman should have the choice to whether or not to abort a fetus, escpecially, if this is in a case of ---- or

[hr]
. Yes, I do believe that the woman can give the baby then up for adoption, but, the woman would have to carry that fetus/baby until the birth, therefore, she would be remembering this ---- or

[hr]
for 9 months, it would be a constant reminder and this is time the victim should be healing physically and emotionally.

 

[garnet13aj]

I'll probably go back and read the rest of the thread later, but I want to put my 2 cents in either way. I'm pro choice. I don't know if I personally would do it (I'd rather adopt and never get pregnant personally, if I can have it my way), but I think it's the woman's choice. She is the one that has to go through the pain either way and will ultimately be responsible for the baby. Yes the dad's are involved, most times extremely involved, but if the dad decides not to be involved all decisions fall to the woman. It is her body, her choice.

What if 10 years down the road we prove conclusively that "life" begins at conception? We won't be able to bring all those lives back.

I guess it depends on your viewpoint. As an atheist the idea of where life begins is relative. Is it a living cell, a beating heart, when nerves start to form? I don't know. Personally, it sounds harsh, but the baby isn't going to know it died. The mother will however and it is up to her to decide how she feels about it.

 

[team2jndd]

I didnt want to read all the pages so im probably repeating the same points as others so sorry for that. With that said, hundreds of thousands of babies in this country go unadopted so putting a child up for adoption in my opinion is just as bad. When people go to adopt a child they look at the background of the child. I know its sad to think this way but a child who comes from a single mother and is a product of ---- and or drug/alchohol use will be less likely to be adopted. Not to mention that it seems to have gone out of style to adopt american children. My opinion is that life starts when the baby is fully capable of living without the mother. If the baby is still dependant completely upon the mother, she has the control over it. I think it should be her choice to decide whats best. I think first trimester abortion should always be legal. My reasoning for this is that, the baby is still smaller than a golfball. You have plenty of time after the sexual intercorse to find out if you are pregnant. I cant remember the exact time period of the first trimester but I believe its more than 6 weeks? (correct me if thats wrong because like I said im not sure)

 

[watson3]

No..I think that if this Law in Tenn goes through, it will open up alot of eyes

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by garnet13aj
...... Personally, it sounds harsh, but the baby isn't going to know it died. ....
If someone walks up and puts a bullet in someone's head the victim won't know they died. We still consider that murder.

 

[phixer]

Slicing and sucking a human baby apart through a tube. Or how about the partial birth abortions where they submerge a little kid in a bucket of water to kill her. This is the reality, this is what abortion really is.
Think of someone you love and then think of them being aborted.

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Slicing and sucking a human baby apart through a tube. Or how about the partial birth abortions where they submerge a little kid in a bucket of water to kill her. This is the reality, this is what abortion really is.
Think of someone you love and then think of them being aborted.
I've already said that I'm not in favor of partial birth abortions or even abortions after the first 4 months.

 

[indydirk]

Let me now say that for the most part everybody has been pretty civil with this thread. I (for one) appreciate that !!!

I also want to give my thanks to the mods for watching over and allowing this thread to keep going as it has. It could have turned ugly a few times and been deleted, but so far so good.
With that said, I'll go back and watch (read) what the rest of you have to say...

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Pontius
I've already said that I'm not in favor of partial birth abortions or even abortions after the first 4 months.
Umm... OK didnt say you didnt. So would 3 months and 29 days be any different?

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Umm... OK didnt say you didnt. So would 3 months and 29 days be any different?
no, because there needs to be a cutoff limit somewhere. and my cutoff limit would be round about 4 months.

 

[phixer]

Originally Posted by Pontius
no, because there needs to be a cutoff limit somewhere. and my cutoff limit would be round about 4 months.
Why?

 

[pontius]

Originally Posted by Phixer
Why?

because at one point, a clump DOES become a human life. just not at the point of conception.

 

[watson3]

Originally Posted by Pontius
because at one point, a clump DOES become a human life. just not at the point of conception.
So let us equate this to fish..I see those shark eggs in my LFS..If you think of that egg as a womb, you see that there is an Actual Life inside there well before it comes out..

 

[ol'salty]

Originally Posted by Phixer
If you get a chance take a close look at some of the before and after photos of an abortion. Arms and legs, in some you can even see the fingers. Take a look at the 2 month old under a microscope. It is unmistakeably a human being.
So... if the universal definition of "kill" is to deprive of life, and in fact that " 2 month old clump of blood and mucus" eventually becomes a human life (what else would it become, a pony?) then an abortion is depriving that "2 month old clump of blood and mucus" the chance of a life. So abortion is stopping a human life.
The only thing wrong with the "chance of life" arguement is the fact that it might not have a chance of life. The baby could die on it's own before it's born or even after. That baby might have never had a chance at a life.
I'll throw a couple of things out there for this discussion. If you weren't trying to get preg. and your wife was taking depovera, and it somehow let her get preg., what would you do? It is almost a 99% chance that the baby will be physically and mentally hadicapped and only live about a year. Now, would you have the baby or abort? The thing about this issue is if you weren't on the depo, the child would have possibly had a chance to have a life. So in a way, you have some of the blame on you...
The other thing is not the statement that even the clump of cells is alive. Yes it is, but so is your thumb or finger. If you were to accidently cut it off, should that be murder. You killed those cells...
I believe that life should be considered when the life sustaining organs all start working. (minus lungs maybe) In other words, i think life begins when the baby's organs start working on thier own. Think of it in reverse, it one of those organs stopped, that would be when life ends.
I am pro-choice, but i don't believe in abortions for birth control. I think for health reasons(mother or baby) , and ---- should be the only reasons, but it should be up to the parents...notice i said parents. What would you do if you wanted a baby (the man) and your wife or girlfriend didn't. The bad thing is the way it is right now(legally) , i don't think there is anything the father can do to stop it if the mother wants it done.
I haven't read all of the posts yet, so if i repeated something, sorry.