30-xtra high
Active Member
watch the news?... my guess is yes... well on CNN about a week or two ago they said scientists have proven people who use cell phones on a regular basis are 50% more likely to develope tumors in there head., personally... i've never even met somebody with tumors in their head... and as a teen, almost everybody i know has and uses on a regular basis, their cell phones.
and i still stand by my statement against science... its completely unstable, and is proven wrong all the time, so many different theories that nobody really knows which is right, don't agree with me, thats fine, your opinion not mine...and again no offense.
and i still stand by my statement against science... its completely unstable, and is proven wrong all the time, so many different theories that nobody really knows which is right, don't agree with me, thats fine, your opinion not mine...and again no offense.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by 30-xtra high
... scientists have proven people who use cell phones on a regular basis are 50% more likely to develope tumors in there head., personally... .
Ok, that's not the same as what you said earlier:"science" states those who use cell phones have a 50% chance of getting tomers in their skull"...
... scientists have proven people who use cell phones on a regular basis are 50% more likely to develope tumors in there head., personally... .
Ok, that's not the same as what you said earlier:"science" states those who use cell phones have a 50% chance of getting tomers in their skull"...
pontius
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Is it your belief that "life" begins at birth?
no, not at birth. human life begins before birth, when it starts to take on actual human traits....limbs, responses, eyes, maybe sucking a thumb or kicking a leg. I am not in anyway in favor of these "partial birth abortions" unless in emergency type situations. but up to say, the first 3 or 4 months, I have no problem with abortion. I certainly think it is a sad decision for someone to have to make since preventing pregnancy isn't hard at all to do.
Is it your belief that "life" begins at birth?
no, not at birth. human life begins before birth, when it starts to take on actual human traits....limbs, responses, eyes, maybe sucking a thumb or kicking a leg. I am not in anyway in favor of these "partial birth abortions" unless in emergency type situations. but up to say, the first 3 or 4 months, I have no problem with abortion. I certainly think it is a sad decision for someone to have to make since preventing pregnancy isn't hard at all to do.
pontius
Active Member
Originally Posted by Phixer
If you get a chance take a close look at some of the before and after photos of an abortion. Arms and legs, in some you can even see the fingers. Take a look at the 2 month old under a microscope. It is unmistakeably a human being.
So... if the universal definition of "kill" is to deprive of life, and in fact that " 2 month old clump of blood and mucus" eventually becomes a human life (what else would it become, a pony?) then an abortion is depriving that "2 month old clump of blood and mucus" the chance of a life. So abortion is stopping a human life.
hey, it's a sad decision for someone to make. I personally would never want my wife or girlfriend to have an abortion. but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not.
and I'm sure it's something hard to see and have to live with too. but if I have to put a fetus under a microscope to find human traits, that's not yet "human" to me.
before and after pictures of abortion may be bad, but maybe you should see before and after pictures of a child that has been abused and neglected because their sorry parents didn't want them to begin with. so my question is, what's worse.....aborting the pregnancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child?
If you get a chance take a close look at some of the before and after photos of an abortion. Arms and legs, in some you can even see the fingers. Take a look at the 2 month old under a microscope. It is unmistakeably a human being.
So... if the universal definition of "kill" is to deprive of life, and in fact that " 2 month old clump of blood and mucus" eventually becomes a human life (what else would it become, a pony?) then an abortion is depriving that "2 month old clump of blood and mucus" the chance of a life. So abortion is stopping a human life.
hey, it's a sad decision for someone to make. I personally would never want my wife or girlfriend to have an abortion. but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not.
and I'm sure it's something hard to see and have to live with too. but if I have to put a fetus under a microscope to find human traits, that's not yet "human" to me.
before and after pictures of abortion may be bad, but maybe you should see before and after pictures of a child that has been abused and neglected because their sorry parents didn't want them to begin with. so my question is, what's worse.....aborting the pregnancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child?
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
.... but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not........
That my friend we agree on.
.... but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not........
That my friend we agree on.
dcoyle11
Member
Originally Posted by DragonZim
If you want us to prove that wrong, can you in fact prove it right?
i think this is where i left off ---- so egg & sperm together they seem to be the two factors to start life..it can even be done out side the body..i think thats the begining of a life.. what fact would you have to say this statement is wrong?
If you want us to prove that wrong, can you in fact prove it right?
i think this is where i left off ---- so egg & sperm together they seem to be the two factors to start life..it can even be done out side the body..i think thats the begining of a life.. what fact would you have to say this statement is wrong?
dcoyle11
Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
no, not at birth. human life begins before birth, when it starts to take on actual human traits....limbs, responses, eyes, maybe sucking a thumb or kicking a leg. I am not in anyway in favor of these "partial birth abortions" unless in emergency type situations. but up to say, the first 3 or 4 months, I have no problem with abortion. I certainly think it is a sad decision for someone to have to make since preventing pregnancy isn't hard at all to do.
so lets say you state its life when the baby has limbs? if it is born without arms is it not life.. if the baby is born with a disability it is not a life? if the baby is born blind it is not life? you can not say that these things are what makes human life. there is life in your fish tank dump a gallon of gas in there and its dead... am i correct or not?
no, not at birth. human life begins before birth, when it starts to take on actual human traits....limbs, responses, eyes, maybe sucking a thumb or kicking a leg. I am not in anyway in favor of these "partial birth abortions" unless in emergency type situations. but up to say, the first 3 or 4 months, I have no problem with abortion. I certainly think it is a sad decision for someone to have to make since preventing pregnancy isn't hard at all to do.
so lets say you state its life when the baby has limbs? if it is born without arms is it not life.. if the baby is born with a disability it is not a life? if the baby is born blind it is not life? you can not say that these things are what makes human life. there is life in your fish tank dump a gallon of gas in there and its dead... am i correct or not?
I
indydirk
Guest
Originally Posted by dcoyle11
here is a thought.... how many people out there are pro choice and still object to me putting a blue tang in a 65 gallon tank?
:hilarious :hilarious
here is a thought.... how many people out there are pro choice and still object to me putting a blue tang in a 65 gallon tank?
:hilarious :hilarious
pontius
Active Member
Originally Posted by dcoyle11
so lets say you state its life when the baby has limbs? if it is born without arms is it not life.. if the baby is born with a disability it is not a life? if the baby is born blind it is not life? you can not say that these things are what makes human life. there is life in your fish tank dump a gallon of gas in there and its dead... am i correct or not?
first off, you're talking about rare circumstances to try to support your point. of course a child is "life" when it's born, whether or not it has limbs or sight. I just said in my last post that I believe that "human life" begins well before birth, just not at conception, and not in the first few months. did I not say that?
I don't get the fish talk, or the blue tang in a 65 gallon...we're not talking about fish, we're talking about "human life".
so lets say you state its life when the baby has limbs? if it is born without arms is it not life.. if the baby is born with a disability it is not a life? if the baby is born blind it is not life? you can not say that these things are what makes human life. there is life in your fish tank dump a gallon of gas in there and its dead... am i correct or not?
first off, you're talking about rare circumstances to try to support your point. of course a child is "life" when it's born, whether or not it has limbs or sight. I just said in my last post that I believe that "human life" begins well before birth, just not at conception, and not in the first few months. did I not say that?
I don't get the fish talk, or the blue tang in a 65 gallon...we're not talking about fish, we're talking about "human life".
pontius
Active Member
Originally Posted by jhill5
One thing I do not follow.
If a drunk driver gets in an accident with a pregnant women and the baby dies, the drunk can and most likely will be charged with vehicular homicide. If the baby is not legally born, how is it a homicide?
that's pretty easy....because the drunk driver aborted the pregnancy against the woman's wishes. if a happily pregnant woman is driving along minding her own business and some drunk driver kills the unborn child, of course it's vehicular homicide. if you kill yourself, is it called "murder" or "suicide"?
One thing I do not follow.
If a drunk driver gets in an accident with a pregnant women and the baby dies, the drunk can and most likely will be charged with vehicular homicide. If the baby is not legally born, how is it a homicide?
that's pretty easy....because the drunk driver aborted the pregnancy against the woman's wishes. if a happily pregnant woman is driving along minding her own business and some drunk driver kills the unborn child, of course it's vehicular homicide. if you kill yourself, is it called "murder" or "suicide"?
phixer
Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
hey, it's a sad decision for someone to make. I personally would never want my wife or girlfriend to have an abortion. but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not.
and I'm sure it's something hard to see and have to live with too. but if I have to put a fetus under a microscope to find human traits, that's not yet "human" to me.
before and after pictures of abortion may be bad, but maybe you should see before and after pictures of a child that has been abused and neglected because their sorry parents didn't want them to begin with. so my question is, what's worse.....aborting the pregnancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child?
First off. I always like talking with you because you are a logical thinker and like PJ.
The most important of human traits are the ones that cannot be seen even under a microscope. Mercy, Compassion, Care, Wisdom ... you get the drift. These traits that make us human are all stopped by an abortion.
"Whats worse.....aborting the pregancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child."
Many kids go unwanted by irresponsible biological parents but with the number of people in the world waiting to adopt children fewer would go unwanted at all. An abused child is alive and can be placed into a loving environment where they can heal and eventually be glad to be alive.
An aborted one cannot.
hey, it's a sad decision for someone to make. I personally would never want my wife or girlfriend to have an abortion. but then again, I'm man enough to accept and help with the responsibility of raising the child whereas a big percentage of males in this world are not.
and I'm sure it's something hard to see and have to live with too. but if I have to put a fetus under a microscope to find human traits, that's not yet "human" to me.
before and after pictures of abortion may be bad, but maybe you should see before and after pictures of a child that has been abused and neglected because their sorry parents didn't want them to begin with. so my question is, what's worse.....aborting the pregnancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child?
First off. I always like talking with you because you are a logical thinker and like PJ.
The most important of human traits are the ones that cannot be seen even under a microscope. Mercy, Compassion, Care, Wisdom ... you get the drift. These traits that make us human are all stopped by an abortion.
"Whats worse.....aborting the pregancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child."
Many kids go unwanted by irresponsible biological parents but with the number of people in the world waiting to adopt children fewer would go unwanted at all. An abused child is alive and can be placed into a loving environment where they can heal and eventually be glad to be alive.
An aborted one cannot.
pontius
Active Member
Originally Posted by Phixer
First off. I always like talking with you because you are a logical thinker and like PJ.
The most important of human traits are the ones that cannot be seen even under a microscope. Mercy, Compassion, Care, Wisdom ... you get the drift. These traits that make us human are all stopped by an abortion.
"Whats worse.....aborting the pregancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child."
Many kids go unwanted by irresponsible biological parents but with the number of people in the world waiting to adopt children fewer would go unwanted at all. An abused child is alive and can be placed into a loving environment where they can heal and eventually be glad to be alive.
An aborted one cannot.
thanks, I've always enjoyed talking with you as well .
but the human traits you mentioned like mercy, compassion, care, wisdom, etc. those are traits that I don't see present in a fetus that is a couple months old.
and yes, there are plenty of people that want to adopt children. but from the way I understand it, putting a child up for adoption is just as hard a decision than having an abortion, if not worse. for one thing, the mother carries the child around for over 9 months so there is a natural bond and many mothers decide against adoption or have a hard time with even though they know in their hearts that they may not be fit parents. then there's the stigma and the trouble that many adopted children have. and the regrets that both mother and child have to deal with over the years and wondering how things may have ended up different, etc etc. not saying that adoption isn't a great thing for parents that can't have babies or for giving children better lives. I'm just saying that adoption is not always a happy ending for all concerned either.
my whole feeling about it is just that it's really not my business or my place to try to mandate what some female that I'll never meet does with her own life. like I said, I would never want a wife or girlfriend of mine to have an abortion. and I think it's a sad alternative. but I just don't think it's my business to control somebody else's life when it comes to pregnancy and parenthood. even if my religious beliefs told me that abortion is the ultimate sin, I still feel that it's the individual's God given right to choose their own path. Afterall, God IS the final judge, not man. we can have normal laws against murder, assault, burglary, etc etc etc. but those are things that affect us all. some stranger getting an abortion is not something that affects me.
First off. I always like talking with you because you are a logical thinker and like PJ.
The most important of human traits are the ones that cannot be seen even under a microscope. Mercy, Compassion, Care, Wisdom ... you get the drift. These traits that make us human are all stopped by an abortion.
"Whats worse.....aborting the pregancy of an unwanted child or abusing an unwanted child."
Many kids go unwanted by irresponsible biological parents but with the number of people in the world waiting to adopt children fewer would go unwanted at all. An abused child is alive and can be placed into a loving environment where they can heal and eventually be glad to be alive.
An aborted one cannot.
thanks, I've always enjoyed talking with you as well .
but the human traits you mentioned like mercy, compassion, care, wisdom, etc. those are traits that I don't see present in a fetus that is a couple months old.
and yes, there are plenty of people that want to adopt children. but from the way I understand it, putting a child up for adoption is just as hard a decision than having an abortion, if not worse. for one thing, the mother carries the child around for over 9 months so there is a natural bond and many mothers decide against adoption or have a hard time with even though they know in their hearts that they may not be fit parents. then there's the stigma and the trouble that many adopted children have. and the regrets that both mother and child have to deal with over the years and wondering how things may have ended up different, etc etc. not saying that adoption isn't a great thing for parents that can't have babies or for giving children better lives. I'm just saying that adoption is not always a happy ending for all concerned either.
my whole feeling about it is just that it's really not my business or my place to try to mandate what some female that I'll never meet does with her own life. like I said, I would never want a wife or girlfriend of mine to have an abortion. and I think it's a sad alternative. but I just don't think it's my business to control somebody else's life when it comes to pregnancy and parenthood. even if my religious beliefs told me that abortion is the ultimate sin, I still feel that it's the individual's God given right to choose their own path. Afterall, God IS the final judge, not man. we can have normal laws against murder, assault, burglary, etc etc etc. but those are things that affect us all. some stranger getting an abortion is not something that affects me.
1journeyman
Active Member
Originally Posted by Pontius
.... but from the way I understand it, putting a child up for adoption is just as hard a decision than having an abortion, ....
Several states, including Texas, have passed laws that allow mothers to leave newborn babies at "safe" places (Fire Stations, hospitals, etc.) and walk away.
.... but from the way I understand it, putting a child up for adoption is just as hard a decision than having an abortion, ....
Several states, including Texas, have passed laws that allow mothers to leave newborn babies at "safe" places (Fire Stations, hospitals, etc.) and walk away.
aztec reef
Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Several states, including Texas, have passed laws that allow mothers to leave newborn babies at "safe" places (Fire Stations, hospitals, etc.) and walk away.
i'm with this before i ever agree with abortion. at least adopting the baby its giving it a chance to live. why should you have the right to kill a baby when the baby did'nt ask to come to this world.
Several states, including Texas, have passed laws that allow mothers to leave newborn babies at "safe" places (Fire Stations, hospitals, etc.) and walk away.
i'm with this before i ever agree with abortion. at least adopting the baby its giving it a chance to live. why should you have the right to kill a baby when the baby did'nt ask to come to this world.
skipperdz
Active Member
Originally Posted by Bronco300
i am against abortion, but those types of questions are crazy and just to put someone in a corner, its like asking someone who believes in God if God can create a rock to heavy for him to throw..
well i think in abortions case this is slightly more likely to happen.
oh im pro choice however only for ---- cases, and mother may die during birth. i am pro life however when it comes to using it as a form of birth control. theres a thing called planned parent hood! go to it...learn it. live it. love it. if you dont want a child or are not ready be RESPONSIBLE! none of this oops im pregnant lets play scramble!
i am against abortion, but those types of questions are crazy and just to put someone in a corner, its like asking someone who believes in God if God can create a rock to heavy for him to throw..
well i think in abortions case this is slightly more likely to happen.
oh im pro choice however only for ---- cases, and mother may die during birth. i am pro life however when it comes to using it as a form of birth control. theres a thing called planned parent hood! go to it...learn it. live it. love it. if you dont want a child or are not ready be RESPONSIBLE! none of this oops im pregnant lets play scramble!