Rnc

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750328
Record Budget Deficit!
You're advocating a position that was the first time (I might be wrong but I don't think so) in US history (outside was war) that the US started racking up some national debt.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750339
You think? I tend to disagree, but why do you think that?
You aren't listening to Obama very close if you don't know why. He has promised numerous new programs and expansion of current ones. He doesn't pay for them even with tax increases.
 

sickboy

Active Member
Well, yeah, after the war I guess there was a debt mess. Everyone owing everyone else x amount of money, and that is not and will not go away. So i guess if we don't pay attention to our national debt...there really is no point to being fiscally conservative. I'll have to think about this for a bit.....this may be the first point that you might have changed my mind on.....
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2750346
You aren't listening to Obama very close if you don't know why. He has promised numerous new programs and expansion of current ones. He doesn't pay for them even with tax increases.
Reduced unneeded spending. McCain wasn't the only one talking about wasteful earmarks...
I know he has promised new programs...my favorite is paying teacher more as my wife is a high school math teacher....but if you don't cater to corporate lobbyists, we could save a lot more money. In this regard, I don't care who is in office, it needs to be addressed. Of course, McCain said he would make them famous, but he didn't say how, and considering that the Alaska congressman's office has listed all the earmarks that Palin has requested. So if by making them famous he means making them VP....I guess he was right.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750349
Well, yeah, after the war I guess there was a debt mess. Everyone owing everyone else x amount of money, and that is not and will not go away. So i guess if we don't pay attention to our national debt...there really is no point to being fiscally conservative. I'll have to think about this for a bit.....this may be the first point that you might have changed my mind on.....
I'm talking pre-wwII. The New Deal and the government spending involved racked up more national debt than in US history to that point.
p25 (It looks like these are actual numbers)
Now the thing is he made some needed improvements in infrastructure (which is fine) a lot of govt job were building roads. And national parks ect which was fine, and the roads were probably needed. However the concept that the government can hire and spend was as demonstrated a slippery slope.
The approach to the new deal and the new deal 2 was a multiple prong approach, some of it was fine, like policing some stuff (like the FDIC) in order to create (a false) sense of security because so much of our monetary policy is actually based on faith. (but hey you should be thrilled with the Fanny and Freddy bailout) Keeping the banks secure.
I'm not against the fed providing some regulation to ensure some basic ethical guidelines are upheld.
Some of it was government mandated savings (SS) which was never meant to be the monster it became, and even FDR never meant it as a permanent government institution. But welfare as we know it is based out of these policies.
Another aspect of the New Deal was the government hiring enough people to make unemployment more manageable. And at the height of the New Deal 2unemployment did drop from 25% down to around 15%. Today, the federal government is the single largest entity in terms of employment. Then we are talking about hiring enough people to change the unemployment rate. We have what 300 million people with 60+% either looking for a job or employed. You are talking some MAJOR federal deficits simply because of the shear enormity of what it would take to make a significant impact on our economic indicators.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750349
So i guess if we don't pay attention to our national debt...there really is no point to being fiscally conservative. I'll have to think about this for a bit.....this may be the first point that you might have changed my mind on.....
As for wartime spending I'm fine with it, I'd rather be in debt than not under a US flag.
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2749312
The only failing of the new deal was it led to the great society of the 60's which has turned us into a debtor nation.
We have become more like a welfare/entitlement nation thanks the the "great society".
 

oscardeuce

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750352
I know he has promised new programs...my favorite is paying teacher more as my wife is a high school math teacher....but if you don't cater to corporate lobbyists, we could save a lot more money.
You realize the NEA is one of those lobbist groups right?
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2750382
As for wartime spending I'm fine with it, I'd rather be in debt than not under a US flag.
Did I ever say anything that would make you think I don't feel the same way?????
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750444
Did I ever say anything that would make you think I don't feel the same way?????
No, but we were talking about federal deficits. And war has always been a good place to rack up a strong deficit.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by sickboy
http:///forum/post/2750352
Reduced unneeded spending. McCain wasn't the only one talking about wasteful earmarks...
I know he has promised new programs...my favorite is paying teacher more as my wife is a high school math teacher....but if you don't cater to corporate lobbyists, we could save a lot more money. In this regard, I don't care who is in office, it needs to be addressed. Of course, McCain said he would make them famous, but he didn't say how, and considering that the Alaska congressman's office has listed all the earmarks that Palin has requested. So if by making them famous he means making them VP....I guess he was right.
First off Palin cannot request earmarks. She can request funding. Only a member of congress can ask for earmarks. We are talking about the woman who as Governor eliminated the personal staff at the governors mansion and sold off the private jet. She also drives herself to and from work. The more I learn about this woman the more I wished she was at the top of the ticket.
McCain's idea on teachers is to dump teachers who aren't doing their job so we can afford to pay the good teachers closer to what they are worth. Sounds nice but the union will never allow that to happen.

I think the best way to deal with lobbyists is transparency. You can't get away from cash in campaigns. BUT, if we make all outlays public record politicians are going to have to go out of their way to explain why they supported a piece of legislation after getting a weekend trip or something. AARP, The American Cancer Society, MDA, The Sierra Clup etc. all spend plenty on lobbying. The lobbyists aren't the problem, its the politicians.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2750409
We have become more like a welfare/entitlement nation thanks the the "great society".
Zactly, the new deal was a jobs program. People tend to forget about that difference.
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2750506
McCain's idea on teachers is to dump teachers who aren't doing their job so we can afford to pay the good teachers closer to what they are worth. Sounds nice but the union will never allow that to happen.

But at the same time, most of the people who would be good teachers do something else because it pays more. College isn't cheap, and neither are living expenses. There are many teachers that my wife works with who should be fired, they are lazy and don't really care about the kids. They don't think about how their teaching will affect the future generation of our country, they just do it. But, there are some like my wife, who keep doing it because that is what they want to do. She wonders sometimes why she is, especially when I keep telling her to take the actuary exam (she was education and math, not just education), but when it comes down to it she loves teaching the kids. So I would argue to raise their wages, and then get rid of the bad ones.
I think the best way to deal with lobbyists is transparency. You can't get away from cash in campaigns. BUT, if we make all outlays public record politicians are going to have to go out of their way to explain why they supported a piece of legislation after getting a weekend trip or something. AARP, The American Cancer Society, MDA, The Sierra Clup etc. all spend plenty on lobbying. The lobbyists aren't the problem, its the politicians.
This would be great...
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by oscardeuce
http:///forum/post/2750486
Then your logic makes no sense.
How?
I didn't say to not have lobbyists at all, some are for good causes. And I understand that the corporate lobbyist are necessary to counter act the Union lobbyist, but don't you think education is in a different category? I'm also not saying we should just cater to the education unions either.
 

sickboy

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2750452
No, but we were talking about federal deficits. And war has always been a good place to rack up a strong deficit.
Yeah, and a good place to spur the production economy. Unfortunately, we do not have a whole lot of production left in this country to spur. Those are exactly the jobs we are losing to have our 6.1 % unemployment.
 
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