Skimmerless Experiment Weekly Update

druluv

druluv

Member
Hi Everyone:
I Have embarked on a journey few will take. I'm going to attempt to start a full scale reef tank with just a refugium system.
Yes thats right not protein skimmer! I'll update you guys once a week with pics and a status of how the tank is doing:
Let me Know What you think.
Experiment Details Started 4/16/04:
Tank Specs:
180 Gal - Custom Design w/ two overflows
45 Gal refugium- Live Sand & Miracle Mud & Fuge Creatures (Dual Returns)
fuge creatures: (These Creatures Keep the fuge clean from algae, and detritus)
I add photoPlankton to help with the critters offspring.
sand bed clams
Baby Bristle Worms
MicroHermits
Nerite Grazers
trocus grazers
turbo grazers
Strombus Grazers
Nassarius Snails
Bubble Bee Snails
Amphipods
spaghetti Worms
mini-Hawaiian Reef Brittle Stars
Fuge Plants
Grape Cualerpa
Feather Cualerpa
Shaving Brush
Gold Tang Heaven
Red Tang Heaven
Ulva Blade
Filtration:
One Fuge custom built System
Live Rock (display & Fuge - Fullied Cured for a year (Tonga Branch, Fuji, Marshall)
No mechanical
Pumps:
return : mag 2400 Pump 2200 Gph
powerheads: via aqua 3600 - 1000 gph
Turn over = 16
Salt:
Tropic Marin
Calcium Supp:
B-ionic Calcium Buffer System - ESV - every day - 30ML of both to help Coraline production
Neilisen Reactor -PM -using EVS KALK -
Ultra life Top-off hook-up to a float switch -
dosed by aqua-medic dosing pump - Should Help precipate PO4
Phosphate Reactor - tlf - rowaphos - maxi-jet 500 pump
Calicum Reactor - PM - coming soon
Reef Advantage Calcium - twice Bi Weekly(if needed)
Reef Builder - twice bi weekly(If needed)
Water Supply - Kent Max deluxe ro/di filter
Weekly water changes - Nutri-seawater (Natural Live Ocean Saltwater)
Food
Frovzen - Mysis, Brine, water fleas
Lighting
4 160 watt uri bulbs - ice cap ballast(2) (3 Actinic and 1 10K)
1 250 watt MH 10k
1 PFO led nite light - Excellent View Light
5 watts per gallon
4 MH 400 Watts- Coming Soon
Lighting Duration
Morning Sun-light approx - 4hrs -
2 vho actinics - 12hrs
1 vho actinics & 1 - 10 K bulbs - 11hrs
250 watt MH 10K - 8 hrs
Temperature Control -
1 50 watt heater
1/2hp chiller Pacific coast
Water Parms
NH- 0 -tetra
NO2- undetectable - sea chem
NO3- 1 ml/g - sea chem
PO4- undetectable - sea chem
PH- 8.3 - 8.4 sea chem - phep tester
Notes:
Live Stock: Date status
Fish:
Yellow tang med - 4/07/04
Blue Regal med - 4/15/04
maroon clown tiny - 4/15/04
Engineer goby - med- 4/15/04
Kole Tang - med- 4/20/04
yellow pymgy angel -med - 4/20/04
Neon Blue Gobies-4/22/04
Blue Devil Dasmel -4/26/04
Bagg. Cardinal -4/26/04
Coral:
Soft
tiny Sarcophyton sp- - 4/15/04
tiny green finger - 4/17/04
ToadStool Leather - 4/22/04
LPS
Fox Coral - 4/20/04
Bubble Coral White - 4/22/04
Candy Cane - 4/22/04
Button Coral - 4/22/04
Plate Coral Orange - 4/22/04
Polps
Pumping Xenia - 4/22/04
Green umbrella Mushroom - 4/20/04
Green ricordea Mushroom - 4/20/04
Polyp on a rock - 4/20/04
Mushroom rocks - 4/20/04
Clams
Dersa Clam - 4/22/04
Tonga Clam Red - 4/27/04
SPS
Montipora Encrusting Orange - 4/22/04
Leaf Plate Montipora - 4/22/04
INVERTS:
clump ball sponge - 3/15/04
sand sifter star - 4/15/04
blood red cleaner shrimp - 4/17/04
cleaner shrimp - 4/17/04
hermit crabs - Solid workers
Sand sifting cucumbers - 4/19/04
various Snails - Solid Workers
Sally Light Foot - 4/20/04 - Very Good algae eater, must have
sand sifting crabs -
Cleaner Clams -
Rose Bubble Tip Anemone - 4/22/04
Future wish List:
reef safe eel, interesting colored zoo's
Tank Status:
Week two of the experiment:
I have added different assortment of corals and reef safe fish. So far my water chemistry is pretty clean. I don't check for NH or NO2. However, my NO3 is undectable on salfert test kit.
The fuge is coming along nicely. The critters are growing, reproducing, and doing their respectful job.Here are a couple pics. Please understand that camera is only a 1.3 mega pixs. So i'll try my best.
Problems To OverCome:
Need To Add More Flow
Need To Add More Light
Need To Add More Sand bed Critters
Things I Like Best about the Tank
1. Coraline Growth
2. Fuge Micro Fauna
 
druluv

druluv

Member
This week I added about 20 lbs of Live Rock, one cardinal fish, and one 1" clam.
For more water flow added 3 power heads
sen 400 - 474 ghp
2 maxijet 404 - 106 ghp
one po4 reactor w/ rowaphos 250ml
 
druluv

druluv

Member
The Tank is doing pretty well. The water is clean.Even with some much fish being added so fast. In addition to this, no fish has died. This shows that a protein skimmer is really not needed to keep your tank clean.
po4 - undetectable
no3 - 1 ml/g
The problem is Montiporas.
The Montis I hope will rebound in the future. I'll probadly add more flow and more light by next week and see if they progress.
Your Thoughts pls.
 
wizardket

wizardket

New Member
I was just looking for info on mud filters when I can across your post. Very cool. I found a site http://www.xxx.xxx where they have worked with the mud filters for many years. I picked up a lot of info there.
What I would like to find is how they are setup/designed. Are you doing yours as a sump with refugium? How much flow goes through it? I am planning on setting up the 125 with a custom sump/refugium mud filter using the GARF GRUNGE LITE in the refuqium and GRUNGE PLUS in the main tank. I am looking for setup ideas.
 
jlem

jlem

Active Member

Originally posted by druluv
The Tank is doing pretty well. The water is clean.Even with some much fish being added so fast. In addition to this, no fish has died. This shows that a protein skimmer is really not needed to keep your tank clean.
po4 - undetectable
no3 - 1 ml/g
The problem is Montiporas.
The Montis I hope will rebound in the future. I'll probadly add more flow and more light by next week and see if they progress.
Your Thoughts pls.
I would think that it would take at least a couple months before you would have a drastic change because you did not have a skimmer. All that your experiment will prove is that your tank may not need a skimmer. But after 2 weeks I would hardly expect anything to be different, and if it wsomething was different then you have something really wrong with your system.:notsure:
I wish you luck but you would need multiple tanks with very similiar water and livestock conditions that had different filtration systems to really figure out anything.
 
leboeuf

leboeuf

Member
your experiment will be successful! I have know for 18 months that it is not necessary to have a skimmer.
Everything that you added to the fuge, is it doing well? Can you provide any pics of the fuge?
 
benj2112

benj2112

Member
I am wondering if you really want that sand sifting star in the tank.
You mentioned you need to overcome a lack of sand bad fauna and I don't think the star is helping your situation. Isn't he hunting out the fauna you are trying to increase?
I used to have one and noticed a few weeks after the guy went in the worms and worm holes I could see in the sand next to the glass started to vanish and after a while were completely gone. Then I found out that yes the sand sifting sea star was keeping my sand nice and clean looking, but was doing big time damage on the long term.
 
R

randy 12

Guest
We've been skimmerless for almost 2 years now. Hooked up a skimmer at one point and it barely pulled anything out. Corals and fish are thriving. (knock on wood!)
 
h2oengr

h2oengr

Member
As long as your kids don't dump liquid soap in your tank, you should be alright without a skimmer. However, I don't think it'll last. The interaction of the air with the DOCs is essential for removal prior to development of NH3s. It may work for a while, but I just can't see it lasting.
 
jlem

jlem

Active Member

Originally posted by randy 12
We've been skimmerless for almost 2 years now. Hooked up a skimmer at one point and it barely pulled anything out. Corals and fish are thriving. (knock on wood!)
A skimmer won't pull out what is not in the tank, so a lightly stocked tank that is not overfed with food and supliments will not have very much waste for the skimmer to pull out. Most systems though are overstocked and overfed and do need a skimmer to have the best water conditions. Lots of tanks look okay without a skimmer but still do not have the best water conditions that a proper skimmer can help provide.
 
druluv

druluv

Member
I would think that it would take at least a couple months before you would have a drastic change because you did not have a skimmer. All that your experiment will prove is that your tank may not need a skimmer. But after 2 weeks I would hardly expect anything to be different, and if it wsomething was different then you have something really wrong with your system.
This is not a lab experiment. It is a hobby experiment. Experiments like this is for hobby Knowledge not for empirical
scientific data to be publish. It just a showcase to see if a successful reef can be maintained without a skimmer. I care about my inhabitants. If my water chem starts to seriously go down then I will happily use a skimmer.
wizardket
here a pic of the fuge
 
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