snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
I'm listening,....
Snake's LED build
- Thread starter snakeblitz33
- Start date
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
I tallied up individual parts for the build and it's just as much if not more than a kit from rapid LED - if I go with Crees. I think I DO want to go with crees. Bridgelux is pretty good, but I understand what Corey is saying about the efficiency of bridgelux leds ... and burning out.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495458
I tallied up individual parts for the build and it's just as much if not more than a kit from rapid LED - if I go with Crees. I think I DO want to go with crees. Bridgelux is pretty good, but I understand what Corey is saying about the efficiency of bridgelux leds ... and burning out.
If you look at the popular cree choices these days which are cree XPG for whites and XTE for royal blues these are both 5 watt leds nowadays, not your typical 3 watt leds of yesterday. Capable of being driven at 1.5 amp max current.
Now look at that so called 3 watt bridglux leds sold for $2 dollars a piece. A max drive current of 700mA or 0.7 amps. They require 3.6 volts at 0.7 amps. This comes out to a maximum of 2.52 watts. So what they are calling 3 watt leds are actually only 2.5 watt leds and it's recommending that they are not driven higher than 500mA or 0.5 amps.
So when we break it all down, the so called cheaper bridglux aren't even half as powerful when being driven at their respective recommended currents because at 500mA you're only getting a led that's running at about 1.75 watts. And that's why you need to run more of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495462
Corey aren't the Inventronics a little different "beast" as far as safety compared to the Meanwells.....I remember reading a lengthy; good thread on RC about a guy using the Inventronic drivers......
It starts turning into a whole other animal when you start getting into the higher voltage versions. Like that nuclearheli guy on rc who used the higher voltage drivers to run bigger single series strings instead of smaller parallel series strings.
The higher Direct Current (DC) drivers are more dangerous to work with. Since direct current is a clamping type of voltage it can hurt you a lot quicker or even kill you if you're not carefull under the right set of circumstances. Where as AC voltage is more likely to cause you to react and pull away, the DC current will cause your muscles to contract and grab hold of a live wire and not let go.
It's probably best for DIY'ers to stay with drivers that put out 48 volts or less. Safer that way for everybody.
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495458
I tallied up individual parts for the build and it's just as much if not more than a kit from rapid LED - if I go with Crees. I think I DO want to go with crees. Bridgelux is pretty good, but I understand what Corey is saying about the efficiency of bridgelux leds ... and burning out.
If you look at the popular cree choices these days which are cree XPG for whites and XTE for royal blues these are both 5 watt leds nowadays, not your typical 3 watt leds of yesterday. Capable of being driven at 1.5 amp max current.
Now look at that so called 3 watt bridglux leds sold for $2 dollars a piece. A max drive current of 700mA or 0.7 amps. They require 3.6 volts at 0.7 amps. This comes out to a maximum of 2.52 watts. So what they are calling 3 watt leds are actually only 2.5 watt leds and it's recommending that they are not driven higher than 500mA or 0.5 amps.
So when we break it all down, the so called cheaper bridglux aren't even half as powerful when being driven at their respective recommended currents because at 500mA you're only getting a led that's running at about 1.75 watts. And that's why you need to run more of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495462
Corey aren't the Inventronics a little different "beast" as far as safety compared to the Meanwells.....I remember reading a lengthy; good thread on RC about a guy using the Inventronic drivers......
It starts turning into a whole other animal when you start getting into the higher voltage versions. Like that nuclearheli guy on rc who used the higher voltage drivers to run bigger single series strings instead of smaller parallel series strings.
The higher Direct Current (DC) drivers are more dangerous to work with. Since direct current is a clamping type of voltage it can hurt you a lot quicker or even kill you if you're not carefull under the right set of circumstances. Where as AC voltage is more likely to cause you to react and pull away, the DC current will cause your muscles to contract and grab hold of a live wire and not let go.
It's probably best for DIY'ers to stay with drivers that put out 48 volts or less. Safer that way for everybody.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
You know what... screw it. I'll wait a few years for LED fixtures to come down in price. I'll retrofit a T5 system that I know will work and do it for 1/10th the cost of an LED system. I'll use the aluminum bars I have to build a light rack for the T5s.
All of this research on DIY LEDs has just made me even more frustrated then usual. I am just going to wait for it and see how the technology pans out in the next few years. Who knows.
I just got back from the LFS and a few of their tanks are gorgeous.... and they are using simple retrofitted T5s ... and I can buy eight used 48" reflectors for $25. ... so... yeah, more money for corals.
Sorry everyone. I didn't mean to lead anyone on... I really did want to go with LEDs at first, but after all of the research and talking and looking and what-not - I just don't feel like now is the right time. I probably jumped the gun on this build, but at least now I know for sure that I want to wait - and have made up my mind to go with my good ole' standby for the time being and wait for the LED fixtures to improve and come down in price.
All of this research on DIY LEDs has just made me even more frustrated then usual. I am just going to wait for it and see how the technology pans out in the next few years. Who knows.
I just got back from the LFS and a few of their tanks are gorgeous.... and they are using simple retrofitted T5s ... and I can buy eight used 48" reflectors for $25. ... so... yeah, more money for corals.
Sorry everyone. I didn't mean to lead anyone on... I really did want to go with LEDs at first, but after all of the research and talking and looking and what-not - I just don't feel like now is the right time. I probably jumped the gun on this build, but at least now I know for sure that I want to wait - and have made up my mind to go with my good ole' standby for the time being and wait for the LED fixtures to improve and come down in price.
S
siptang
Guest
I'm hurt. I didn't think you were going to be that easy to break. :laughing:
+1
+1
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495503
I'm hurt. I didn't think you were going to be that easy to break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siptang http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495535
+1
ok, rub it in. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495538
What's troubling you Seth.....
Disco effects, optics, mounting them neatly, wiring, getting them to work... Potential to hate them once I'm done...
LED Fixtures = 2x 600/ech = $1000-1200 total + additional features and you know you are getting a decent product with support.
LED DIY = $475 + extra materials + time to figure out how to program them to work + unexpected and undetermined long term results + very little support
T5 Fixtures = $400+- for 8 bulb fixture + bulbs = $560+-
T5HO Retrofits = $300 +- plus bulbs (8 bulbs) = $460+-
T5HO by the parts =8 bulb DIY = $277 with quality bulbs that I know (through experience) will work.
My LFS is giving me 8 x 48" t5 reflectors for $20. ... that's about as good of a deal as I have been able to find...
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495503
I'm hurt. I didn't think you were going to be that easy to break.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siptang http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495535
+1
ok, rub it in. lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495538
What's troubling you Seth.....
Disco effects, optics, mounting them neatly, wiring, getting them to work... Potential to hate them once I'm done...
LED Fixtures = 2x 600/ech = $1000-1200 total + additional features and you know you are getting a decent product with support.
LED DIY = $475 + extra materials + time to figure out how to program them to work + unexpected and undetermined long term results + very little support
T5 Fixtures = $400+- for 8 bulb fixture + bulbs = $560+-
T5HO Retrofits = $300 +- plus bulbs (8 bulbs) = $460+-
T5HO by the parts =8 bulb DIY = $277 with quality bulbs that I know (through experience) will work.
My LFS is giving me 8 x 48" t5 reflectors for $20. ... that's about as good of a deal as I have been able to find...
acrylic51
Active Member
Don't think you'll hate LEDs, and it's been more than proven they can more than adequately do the job you want.....You just need to be specific what your needs are and take it a step at a time.....
acrylic51
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495542
ok, rub it in. lol
Disco effects, optics, mounting them neatly, wiring, getting them to work... Potential to hate them once I'm done...
LED Fixtures = 2x 600/ech = $1000-1200 total + additional features and you know you are getting a decent product with support.
Depends....Honestly for the price of prebuilt fixtures, none would get my cash presently....
LED DIY = $475 + extra materials + time to figure out how to program them to work + unexpected and undetermined long term results + very little support
Are you kidding me......Just being able to say "you" built it is satisfaction and reward enough to offset time and hassle....As far as support.....Who needs foreign support, you built the dang thing.....
T5 Fixtures = $400+- for 8 bulb fixture + bulbs = $560+-
I see these being phased out as LEDs take a bigger hold......
T5HO Retrofits = $300 +- plus bulbs (8 bulbs) = $460+-
Comment same as above....will fall to the way side at some point like the T12's
T5HO by the parts =8 bulb DIY = $277 with quality bulbs that I know (through experience) will work.
My LFS is giving me 8 x 48" t5 reflectors for $20. ... that's about as good of a deal as I have been able to find...
Why.....Probably the market has tried up a good bit for T5's......
Originally Posted by SnakeBlitz33 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495542
ok, rub it in. lol
Disco effects, optics, mounting them neatly, wiring, getting them to work... Potential to hate them once I'm done...
LED Fixtures = 2x 600/ech = $1000-1200 total + additional features and you know you are getting a decent product with support.
Depends....Honestly for the price of prebuilt fixtures, none would get my cash presently....
LED DIY = $475 + extra materials + time to figure out how to program them to work + unexpected and undetermined long term results + very little support
Are you kidding me......Just being able to say "you" built it is satisfaction and reward enough to offset time and hassle....As far as support.....Who needs foreign support, you built the dang thing.....
T5 Fixtures = $400+- for 8 bulb fixture + bulbs = $560+-
I see these being phased out as LEDs take a bigger hold......
T5HO Retrofits = $300 +- plus bulbs (8 bulbs) = $460+-
Comment same as above....will fall to the way side at some point like the T12's
T5HO by the parts =8 bulb DIY = $277 with quality bulbs that I know (through experience) will work.
My LFS is giving me 8 x 48" t5 reflectors for $20. ... that's about as good of a deal as I have been able to find...
Why.....Probably the market has tried up a good bit for T5's......
2quills
Well-Known Member
Out of all of the people on this site who I've watched make the switch to leds I really can't think of a one of them who didn't turn out happy. There's no reason why this has to be complicated. Start simple. You were already on the right track. Once you've done one you'll probably never go back. You got all the support you need right here if you run into a jam.
acrylic51
Active Member
Honestly even if you go back and look at guys that weren't happy....There are reasonable/explainable reasons as to failures with LEDs.....People have to remember that its more than just lighting on a system that makes it all work....Lighting is just a small piece of the puzzle.....
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495544
Is this a bad time to tell him that his original idea probably would have worked just fine?
Yup, bad time... lol. All I wanted was something cheap and easy and I found those bridgelux LEDs and generic drivers to get started and then all of the sudden it went to dimmable and crees and meanwell and all this other mess and then researching that I couldn't get what I wanted with the bridgelux and then went to the crees and then there's a whole 'nother demon to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495547
Corey I won't even get into it.......Seth I think your thinking way to much.....Just throwing things out there at you, but you have to remember you have all the information out there to see the trials and tribulations that others have gone through.....I look at it the road is already paved for you.....You have to read and take bits from all different builds to meet your needs....There is tons of information and options out there. I think the big key is leaving yourself room to grow and expand.
Don't think you'll hate LEDs, and it's been more than proven they can more than adequately do the job you want.....You just need to be specific what your needs are and take it a step at a time.....
I may be thinking it out too much. I know I do that - and I'll admit it! lol. I know there are examples out there to follow and I know that I could probably have a successful LED system if I took the time to do it. I want more time then I have patience for.
Even if I go with T5s for the time being, I will eventually upgrade to LEDs or even do a DIY kit or whatever... but it's taking me more time to decide what direction I want to go than what I am willing to spend. I could go ahead and set up a retrofit T5 system and take the next year to research and read and look over builds and ask a lot more questions before I'm comfortable again building something - or even buying something.
I know there isn't anything out there that just "WOWs" me just yet - but even if, for example, I buy something like a Vega - that's MUCH better than what I feel like I could do at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495552
Out of all of the people on this site who I've watched make the switch to leds I really can't think of a one of them who didn't turn out happy. There's no reason why this has to be complicated. Start simple. You were already on the right track. Once you've done one you'll probably never go back. You got all the support you need right here if you run into a jam.
You all are wonderful people, very knowledgeable and very willing to help. I most certainly appreciate your help this time - and even your help in the future on a project like this. I would rather set up a T5 system and start getting in some corals and investing in some other equipment and then down the road set up an LED system that I will be even more proud of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495554
Honestly even if you go back and look at guys that weren't happy....There are reasonable/explainable reasons as to failures with LEDs.....People have to remember that its more than just lighting on a system that makes it all work....Lighting is just a small piece of the puzzle.....
I know lighting is a small piece of the puzzle... by investing in a T5 system (for now) I can have even more money for the other things that I want - and even have some money for corals and a couple more fish and things that I am more happy with for now. I really want an LED system - but I want to take more time researching it and building it and I am impatient right now because I have the money to build an 8bulb T5 system and I could start adding some corals within the next month - rather than (potentially) closer to Christmas.
I'll start saving up for building a DECENT LED system for a build in January/February and then take my time to research and build it properly and will re-visit this thread in the future.
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495544
Is this a bad time to tell him that his original idea probably would have worked just fine?
Yup, bad time... lol. All I wanted was something cheap and easy and I found those bridgelux LEDs and generic drivers to get started and then all of the sudden it went to dimmable and crees and meanwell and all this other mess and then researching that I couldn't get what I wanted with the bridgelux and then went to the crees and then there's a whole 'nother demon to deal with.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495547
Don't think you'll hate LEDs, and it's been more than proven they can more than adequately do the job you want.....You just need to be specific what your needs are and take it a step at a time.....
I may be thinking it out too much. I know I do that - and I'll admit it! lol. I know there are examples out there to follow and I know that I could probably have a successful LED system if I took the time to do it. I want more time then I have patience for.
Even if I go with T5s for the time being, I will eventually upgrade to LEDs or even do a DIY kit or whatever... but it's taking me more time to decide what direction I want to go than what I am willing to spend. I could go ahead and set up a retrofit T5 system and take the next year to research and read and look over builds and ask a lot more questions before I'm comfortable again building something - or even buying something.
I know there isn't anything out there that just "WOWs" me just yet - but even if, for example, I buy something like a Vega - that's MUCH better than what I feel like I could do at the moment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Quills http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495552
Out of all of the people on this site who I've watched make the switch to leds I really can't think of a one of them who didn't turn out happy. There's no reason why this has to be complicated. Start simple. You were already on the right track. Once you've done one you'll probably never go back. You got all the support you need right here if you run into a jam.
You all are wonderful people, very knowledgeable and very willing to help. I most certainly appreciate your help this time - and even your help in the future on a project like this. I would rather set up a T5 system and start getting in some corals and investing in some other equipment and then down the road set up an LED system that I will be even more proud of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by acrylic51 http:///t/393132/snakes-led-build/40#post_3495554
Honestly even if you go back and look at guys that weren't happy....There are reasonable/explainable reasons as to failures with LEDs.....People have to remember that its more than just lighting on a system that makes it all work....Lighting is just a small piece of the puzzle.....
I know lighting is a small piece of the puzzle... by investing in a T5 system (for now) I can have even more money for the other things that I want - and even have some money for corals and a couple more fish and things that I am more happy with for now. I really want an LED system - but I want to take more time researching it and building it and I am impatient right now because I have the money to build an 8bulb T5 system and I could start adding some corals within the next month - rather than (potentially) closer to Christmas.
I'll start saving up for building a DECENT LED system for a build in January/February and then take my time to research and build it properly and will re-visit this thread in the future.
S
siptang
Guest
Go simple and cheap like I did. I don't have disco effect and I love it and my corals are doing awesome.
Honestly think about the money that you have to spend on t5 bulb replacements.
Btw, they just came out with EXTREME ROYAL BLUE. I jusy ordered 10 of those hahahha.(7.99 still cheaper then t5 bulb even with the driver)
Reconsider Seth. Go with your original plan of brifldgelux and dlnt think too much of it. It's not that complicated lol.
Honestly think about the money that you have to spend on t5 bulb replacements.
Btw, they just came out with EXTREME ROYAL BLUE. I jusy ordered 10 of those hahahha.(7.99 still cheaper then t5 bulb even with the driver)
Reconsider Seth. Go with your original plan of brifldgelux and dlnt think too much of it. It's not that complicated lol.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Seth, you've already built the rig and have some supplies. Going with T5 now isn't going to save you any money. My biggest concern was that I would have much rather seen you go with something dimmable even if it's just basic cause I'm sure you would have been happier with the ability to do that. The complicated stuff has already been figured out for you. The rest it just putting it together and that's not difficult. As your skills, knowledge and led advancements progress then you can make small changes to your fixture as you can afford them down the line. That's the beauty of it and that's what it's all about. Now get back to battle, Soldier! 3 pages of info and I'm about to have a stroke if you don't build this thing already.
snakeblitz33
Well-Known Member
Like i said, I still want LEDs. Its just not going to happen right now. I want to wait and do more research and take my time on the build. The T5 system is temporary.
S
siptang
Guest
I will tell you what, I will help you out with something, check your pm.