So we get free money from the IRS!!!!!!!

[peef]

Originally Posted by Nel621
Exactly! By 2009 you will have forgotten all about the money.Then you will see a line on your tax return about money previously paid to you.Please deduct this amount and voila your tax return is now lower that you expected.It's a Rapid Refund Loan" that you don't pay back and has no interest added to it.The gov't will take its cut later.Most people will probrably just make a larger Visa/MC payment and there goes the money!The economy will still be where it is.

So if say I quit my job in a week. I get like 2 dollars tax return next year. I will have to pay back the 1200 dollar extra rebate I get this year? That would ummmm suck.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by peef
Clinton had the national gross debt lower than it has been in YEARS! What would it have accomplished if Clinton had attacked and killed everyone? Nothing, more people would have stepped up and attacked again when they wanted to.
I do agree that lots of people dem, repub, etc etc. called for INITIALL attack but come on five years later? And I ask again, what have we accomplished? What good has come of this war recently other than Bush nabbin Suddam?
You're now bringing up different points; which proves my point that initially yours were factually in error.
Lowering the National debt is not "running in the positive". I agree, this was a good thing. Let's not forget, however, that it also took a Republican Congress to pass the budget Clinton signed, and many of the budget ideas and tax windfalls of the 90's came from reaganesque policies.
If a lot of people (your words) called for the initial invasion it should not accurately be called "Bushs' war" not should it?
Feel free to jump onto one of the other threads for more in-depth discussion of this. I don't want to detract from your initial topic, but as I said some inaccuracies needed to be addressed. It seems we have now done so.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by peef
I didn't know about that. But ok, 17 dead 40 injured....how many of them have we killed? And eye for an eye? That just doesn't sit with me. I TOTALLY agree with you about after 9/11 we needed to retaliate. TOTALLY! My whole point is the meaning of the war is lost.
How many Japanese did we kill in WW2 after they attacked us at Peral Harbor? How many Germans did we kill (and they didn't attack us first...)?
The meaning of the war is not lost; A certain political party has just twisted it... The reasons we went into Afghanistan and Iraq have not been changed.

 

[peef]

The war from 2000 to the war now is a totally different thing. The war today that is going on is Bush's and 1journeyman's...he he, War.

 

[salty blues]

Originally Posted by peef
Thats wasn't how I understood it. It is being given to us to "boost the economy" And it is extra tax money that Uncey Sam took already. That is why the lower income families get much more, they are more likely to spend it on a night at the sizzler. It recirculates and boosts our ecomony that bush has so royally screwed up.
And just exactly what did "bush" do to s c r e w the economy?

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by peef
The war from 2000 to the war now is a totally different thing. The war today that is going on is Bush's and 1journeyman's...he he, War.
So when would you say the war changed?
(And thanks

)

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by salty blues
And just exactly what did "bush" do to s c r e w the economy?
He made people buy houses they couldn't afford and didn't let them read their mort gage applications.... He also refused to allow anyone to understand what the term "introductory rates" meant.

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by salty blues
And just exactly what did "bush" do to s c r e w the economy?

The American economy is going down the pan, and still it spends billions of tax dollars on wars.
Foriegn investors don`t like it so they are withdrawing their money from American businesses, at a rate of knots
All of our stock markets, dow jones, housing markets...everything is crapping out. America is so close to a recession it is scary. What has bush done to help? NOTHING. oops sorry he is giving us this nice little check if it passes.

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by peef
I didn't know about that. But ok, 17 dead 40 injured....how many of them have we killed? And eye for an eye? That just doesn't sit with me. I TOTALLY agree with you about after 9/11 we needed to retaliate. TOTALLY! My whole point is the meaning of the war is lost.
You didn't know about the USS Cole and you have audacity to argue current events? I can't take you seriously now. Sorry.

 

[salty blues]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
He made people buy houses they couldn't afford and didn't let them read their mort gage applications.... He also refused to allow anyone to understand what the term "introductory rates" meant.
The same way he made Kartrina hit New Orleans, right?

 

[mfp1016]

Originally Posted by peef
The American economy is going down the pan, and still it spends billions of tax dollars on wars.
Foriegn investors don`t like it so they are withdrawing their money from American businesses, at a rate of knots
All of our stock markets, dow jones, housing markets...everything is crapping out. America is so close to a recession it is scary. What has bush done to help? NOTHING. oops sorry he is giving us this nice little check if it passes.
Funny, the history books that I have read show that wars generally help the American economy out.

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
So when would you say the war changed?
(And thanks

)

Of course I couldn't say like an exact date or anything, thats ludicris. BUT I would say that after we hit the stale mate we are at...per say. Meaning they kill a few of us we kill a ton of them....we get a few of their "top leaders" they replace them the next day. I think two things should happen if I had my say.
1. We do the largest invasion the world has ever seen (but here comes WW2 again.) and just take over and be done with it. or
2. pull out and be done with it.
And yes I do know that it wouldn't end with either of those, but IMHO I am sick and tired of hearing about it. People are dieing for next to nothing. If they want to be in civil war LET EM.
By the way, I like having an inteligent conversation. I work with some very stupid people that have lost the right to vote in like 8th grade if you get my drift. I like yah journyman!

 

[salty blues]

Originally Posted by peef
The American economy is going down the pan, and still it spends billions of tax dollars on wars.
Foriegn investors don`t like it so they are withdrawing their money from American businesses, at a rate of knots
All of our stock markets, dow jones, housing markets...everything is crapping out. America is so close to a recession it is scary. What has bush done to help? NOTHING. oops sorry he is giving us this nice little check if it passes.
What would you have "bush" do?

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by salty blues
The same way he made Kartrina hit New Orleans, right?

The way he let people rot and die and did basically nothing to help...yes!

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by peef
The American economy is going down the pan, and still it spends billions of tax dollars on wars.
Foriegn investors don`t like it so they are withdrawing their money from American businesses, at a rate of knots
All of our stock markets, dow jones, housing markets...everything is crapping out. America is so close to a recession it is scary. What has bush done to help? NOTHING. oops sorry he is giving us this nice little check if it passes.
Wow... you just gave me another whole list of items to add to your inaccuracy list. Here we go:
*The American economy is slowing.... but still growing. Sorry, by definition that is not a Recession.
*Foreign investors are pouring money into the US. Look it up; Google will provide you plenty of links. Many foreign Real Estate companies are actually opening up offices in the US this year...
*Housing market is going down. Of course, we are at record levels of home ownership in this country...
*Stock Market is fluctuating... of course we are at near record High...

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by salty blues
What would you have "bush" do?

Me? Send the billions and billions of dollars that are just disappearing into the war into something that would help the economy and the US public. What exactly you might ask? I don't know and that is why I am just a citizen and not the President.

 

[salty blues]

Originally Posted by peef
The way he let people rot and die and did basically nothing to help...yes!
I think you have a misinformed idea of exactly what a U.S. president's job is.

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Wow... you just gave me another whole list of items to add to your inaccuracy list. Here we go:
*The American economy is slowing.... but still growing. Sorry, by definition that is not a Recession.
*Foreign investors are pouring money into the US. Look it up; Google will provide you plenty of links. Many foreign Real Estate companies are actually opening up offices in the US this year...
*Housing market is going down. Of course, we are at record levels of home ownership in this country...
*Stock Market is fluctuating... of course we are at near record High...
The American economy is only growing due to the fact of how many people are living here and reproducing here. Watch 60 minutes from like mid december they talk all about that point exactly.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by peef
Of course I couldn't say like an exact date or anything, thats ludicris. BUT I would say that after we hit the stale mate we are at...per say. Meaning they kill a few of us we kill a ton of them....we get a few of their "top leaders" they replace them the next day. I think two things should happen if I had my say.
1. We do the largest invasion the world has ever seen (but here comes WW2 again.) and just take over and be done with it. or
2. pull out and be done with it.
And yes I do know that it wouldn't end with either of those, but IMHO I am sick and tired of hearing about it. People are dieing for next to nothing. If they want to be in civil war LET EM.
By the way, I like having an inteligent conversation. I work with some very stupid people that have lost the right to vote in like 8th grade if you get my drift. I like yah journyman!
I too enjoy an intelligent conversation. At least you answer the questions directly and ask different ones. That's been absent recently in debates on the forums.
If we are losing a few and killing "a ton of them" I wouldn't call that a stalemate. I'd call that a rousing success. Actually, the military agreed with your first idea. That's what the surge was. If you look at attacks and casualties in the past several months you can see it dramatically cut violence.
It's not a Civil War. The insurgents (al Qaeda) and Iran tried to make it one. That said, it's far from a civil war. If it was a civil war you'd see fighting spread across the entire country.

 

[peef]

Originally Posted by salty blues
I think you have a misinformed idea of exactly what a U.S. president's job is.

The president could have sent military (reserve or otherwise) units to help clean and give medicine....yeah he did but come on.