So. Who are you voting for?

2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
beaslbob said:
Yes.
Chinese wages will continue to rise in US dollars until the trade balances out.

We heard this about Japan back in my day. Yet today Japan has had 2 flat decades because the wages are more expensive.

and today US wages are cheaper then 13-14 industrialized countries even thou the actual wages of increased in the US.

Meanwhile Hyundai, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota build 8-9 million cars in Alabama because it is less expensive.

I suggest you study the great depression and smoot-Hawley.

I would rather see free market trade policies then socialists who reject free markets attempting to control the "evil foreigners" To increase their power.
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I support free market too. I just want it balanced.

I took your advice and did a little research. And I've come to the conclusion that Trump might not be wrong. Stay with me here...

I get what you're saying that the 1920's and 30's were a lesson in what can happen when terrifs run wild. And since then we understand they are a bad idea and stay away from them.

But, when Nixon came in he imposed 10% retaliatory terrif on imports. Which forced everyone to the negotiating table that we were imbalanced with where we hashed things out and the terrifs were dropped.

Then in "your day" we had a similar imbalance with Japan. Regan, came in and threatened them with unilateral retalitorial terrifs. In this case negotiations were able to happen before said terrifs were imposed. As a result we allowed them to build plants here that employed, Americans which made and sold their cars. They still got to make some money since it was cheaper for them and we quit getting ripped off.

We have relatively fair trade balance with many rich and poor nations. With the exceptions of places like Venizuala and Mexico who coincidentally practice the dirty art of currency manipulatuon which only serves to promote that imbalance just like China.

Now, I've seen every republican debate thus far. What Trump is proposing is unilateral retaliation against those specific nations. And he may be serious or he may not. But either way it should force folks to the negotiating table. And isnt that Trumps claim to fame? He makes deals, right? Negotiator.

So anyway, it doesn't really steer me away from considering him if that's what we're stuck with.

You guys should read up on this new concept of Variable Terrifs. Nations can make their own choice whether they think it's a good idea to promote imbalance with us or not.
 
beaslbob

beaslbob

Well-Known Member
thanks for doing the research.

My point is that all such negotiations go against free market forces. And as such are counter productive.

The hard thing for people like politicians to wrap their head around it that an all powerful central government controlling things are counter productive and result in depressed economic activity. With the result being depressed employment, shortages of goods the people want and surpluses of good people do not want.

The real solution is to get the government out of setting such policies. But that goes against the idea our elected officials must do something.

The truth is that free markets including trade are self regulating and the best way to allocate resources which result in the best goods, more employment, and higher standards of living.

I would rather have totally unregulated free trade with all countries like China than another great depression because Chinese trade is so unfair and must be fought against.
 
Kristin1234

Kristin1234

Active Member
jay0705 said:
Tomm will be very interesting, to see if the Donald keeps his strangle hold
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I really hope not. I hope he loses his cool and goes bat shit crazy so people can see what we could be dealing with. I'm sorry, I know you're a fan but...... No.

Am I allowed to say shit on here? Lol
 
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2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Today is going to be make it or break it day for Cruz, and Rubio.

Sanders, doesn't stand a chance at this point. No way people are willing to pay those kind of taxes.
 
2quills

2quills

Well-Known Member
Whelp, Cruz didn't do too bad, was hoping for a little better but he still has a fighting chance.

Rubio, took one state. But its hard to see how he's going to make up the deficit. They both would need to pull a miracle out of their hats to stop the Trump train.

Sanders, well, at least he won his home state. But he got stomped by Hillary, pretty much everywhere else.
 
jay0705

jay0705

Well-Known Member
Trump vs Clinton!!!!! Pick your poison American. A lying cheating democrat or a crazy ass republican. Lol
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Call me a town crier. Call me a party pooper. Call me establishment, although I am not sure what that is. Call me stupid, or maybe just Cassandra. But here is the reality. There are many reasons, and here are ten, that the eminent, self-impressed Mr. Trump will fail to fix anything. Starkly, he will fix nothing.

  • (1) Closely aligned with Hillary Clinton. Look yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning, and ask your Trump-contented reflection this question: If someone has given thousands of dollars to Hillary Clinton, invited her to his wedding, contributed to her foundation, encouraged his daughter to befriend Clinton’s, tracks her positions (including abortion and government health care), and refuses to attack a swath of her agenda, is that person aligned with you or with her? And honestly, how much has she fixed?
  • (2) Closely aligned with Chuck Schumer. When your view of government dysfunction and anger at Washington puts on a face, it may not be Chuck Schumer’s – but when he takes over the Senate next year, it will be. And who does he feel confident he can work with? Is that the sort of person you want working for you?
  • (3) Relies on Cronies, not on experts. Management is about people, full stop. Who you pick, defines what you will get done. Trump’s record is clear. He does not pick tops in field, create a wide and empowered base of top performers, and then ask them to pick top performers. The reverse. He picks family and cronies, and makes no apologies for it. He is not interested in hearing what he is not interested in hearing. That is called a formula for bankruptcy. Exhibit one: Trump’s four bankruptcies.
  • (4) Merit System Board prevents mass firings. Oops. The law. Oh yeah. Ever heard of the Merit Systems Protection Board? Neither has Big Don. As a former Senate-confirmed official, who wanted to remove more people than I was ever able to, this wrench in the works slows all firings, even when they are or would be for merit. It would prevent Mr. Trump – even if he were not a Clinton-Schumer protégé – from mass firings. If he undertook mass firings and ignored the Board’s legal strictures, perhaps with his own executive orders, gridlock would become court-lock. Until a savvy President, one who knows the system, works within it to reform it, no strongman will do more than get in legal trouble.
  • (5) Military will not follow Unlawful orders. High ranking former decorated General officers – some boldly and without reservation – have made clear that actions Mr. Trump says he will order, like harsher torture and the killing of families tied to terrorists, are “unlawful.” Moreover, they have said – again boldly – that if Trump orders the military to do such things, these young men and women will be under a legal obligation not to. Ask yourself what American President would ever put our fighting men and women into such an untenable position?
  • (6) No Credibility among world leaders. Credible (and conservative) world leaders are asking us, what are you doing? Looking at Trump and Clinton, they are asking – what has become of the strong, stable, sage and time-honored global leader we knew as America? They laugh at Obama’s cowing; they shudder at Trump’s lack of understanding. To make a country strong, you must do more than puff, shout, and declare. You must earn respect and have credibility on the global stage. Trump has made himself a laughing stock before he begins. The world is too dangerous, too connected, to believe we can hold it captive, lecture, or fire it. Sorry.
  • (7) No understanding of history. To be president, you do not need to have memorized the Constitution, read Washington, Jefferson, Madison, or Monroe. It helps, of course, but is not necessary. After all, Hillary Clinton mixed up the Declaration of Independence and Constitution last week. But that is her oops, not ours. If you condemn two sitting Senators for being part of “the establishment,” not acknowledging that they have fought “tooth and nail” to apply hard brakes, stop runaway debt, secure our country, and reform it – your are either disingenuous, or do not understand fixing starts within. Without history or experience, your wheels will spin and you go nowhere. Service is not a bad word. Cruz at least has been fighting for us – hard.
  • (8) No understanding of military doctrine. Suffice to say that the absolute top priority of a president is national security. Suffice to say that Mr. Trump – unlike Senators Cruz and Rubio – has no idea what national security is about. He did not know what the nuclear triad was. How would he explain Counterforce and Countervalue, Force Protection, COIN Strategy, Unity of Command, Balance of Power, National Technical Means, or the Weinberger-Powell Doctrine? As a Commander in Chief, you fail if you know nothing of national security.
  • (9) No respect for First Amendment. Words are cheap, law suits expensive. How can an avowed defender of the First Amendment – and recall only Cruz has defended it at the Supreme Court – want to widen libel laws and sue the press? Libel is a civil penalty that amputates the First Amendment. Mr. Trump is a libel guy, not a free speech guy. Libel is the bedfellow of political correctness, not the reverse. Think about it.
  • (10)Objective is Power, not fixing anything. Finally, cut to the quick. Mr. Trump is clearly big on power, leveraging more from less. He fashions himself able to create wealth, although the jury is out until we see his tax returns – and the audit. Mr. Trump quashes the public’s right to know, and thinks nothing of it. Why do we let him? Why do we let a man who has chased power, wealth and other alluring prizes take us for fools? Neither unifier nor conservative, neither principled advocate nor successful manager of even one public company, he is not equipped nor prepared to fix anything. So let’s get it right, other than a skating rink in New York, this is no fixer.
  • The good news? There are still choices that will fix things – in July (convention), in November (election), and in our future. Let’s start thinking harder about this.
 
Kristin1234

Kristin1234

Active Member
darthtang aw said:
Call me a town crier. Call me a party pooper. Call me establishment, although I am not sure what that is. Call me stupid, or maybe just Cassandra. But here is the reality. There are many reasons, and here are ten, that the eminent, self-impressed Mr. Trump will fail to fix anything. Starkly, he will fix nothing.

  • (1) Closely aligned with Hillary Clinton. Look yourself in the mirror tomorrow morning, and ask your Trump-contented reflection this question: If someone has given thousands of dollars to Hillary Clinton, invited her to his wedding, contributed to her foundation, encouraged his daughter to befriend Clinton’s, tracks her positions (including abortion and government health care), and refuses to attack a swath of her agenda, is that person aligned with you or with her? And honestly, how much has she fixed?
  • (2) Closely aligned with Chuck Schumer. When your view of government dysfunction and anger at Washington puts on a face, it may not be Chuck Schumer’s – but when he takes over the Senate next year, it will be. And who does he feel confident he can work with? Is that the sort of person you want working for you?
  • (3) Relies on Cronies, not on experts. Management is about people, full stop. Who you pick, defines what you will get done. Trump’s record is clear. He does not pick tops in field, create a wide and empowered base of top performers, and then ask them to pick top performers. The reverse. He picks family and cronies, and makes no apologies for it. He is not interested in hearing what he is not interested in hearing. That is called a formula for bankruptcy. Exhibit one: Trump’s four bankruptcies.
  • (4) Merit System Board prevents mass firings. Oops. The law. Oh yeah. Ever heard of the Merit Systems Protection Board? Neither has Big Don. As a former Senate-confirmed official, who wanted to remove more people than I was ever able to, this wrench in the works slows all firings, even when they are or would be for merit. It would prevent Mr. Trump – even if he were not a Clinton-Schumer protégé – from mass firings. If he undertook mass firings and ignored the Board’s legal strictures, perhaps with his own executive orders, gridlock would become court-lock. Until a savvy President, one who knows the system, works within it to reform it, no strongman will do more than get in legal trouble.
  • (5) Military will not follow Unlawful orders. High ranking former decorated General officers – some boldly and without reservation – have made clear that actions Mr. Trump says he will order, like harsher torture and the killing of families tied to terrorists, are “unlawful.” Moreover, they have said – again boldly – that if Trump orders the military to do such things, these young men and women will be under a legal obligation not to. Ask yourself what American President would ever put our fighting men and women into such an untenable position?
  • (6) No Credibility among world leaders. Credible (and conservative) world leaders are asking us, what are you doing? Looking at Trump and Clinton, they are asking – what has become of the strong, stable, sage and time-honored global leader we knew as America? They laugh at Obama’s cowing; they shudder at Trump’s lack of understanding. To make a country strong, you must do more than puff, shout, and declare. You must earn respect and have credibility on the global stage. Trump has made himself a laughing stock before he begins. The world is too dangerous, too connected, to believe we can hold it captive, lecture, or fire it. Sorry.
  • (7) No understanding of history. To be president, you do not need to have memorized the Constitution, read Washington, Jefferson, Madison, or Monroe. It helps, of course, but is not necessary. After all, Hillary Clinton mixed up the Declaration of Independence and Constitution last week. But that is her oops, not ours. If you condemn two sitting Senators for being part of “the establishment,” not acknowledging that they have fought “tooth and nail” to apply hard brakes, stop runaway debt, secure our country, and reform it – your are either disingenuous, or do not understand fixing starts within. Without history or experience, your wheels will spin and you go nowhere. Service is not a bad word. Cruz at least has been fighting for us – hard.
  • (8) No understanding of military doctrine. Suffice to say that the absolute top priority of a president is national security. Suffice to say that Mr. Trump – unlike Senators Cruz and Rubio – has no idea what national security is about. He did not know what the nuclear triad was. How would he explain Counterforce and Countervalue, Force Protection, COIN Strategy, Unity of Command, Balance of Power, National Technical Means, or the Weinberger-Powell Doctrine? As a Commander in Chief, you fail if you know nothing of national security.
  • (9) No respect for First Amendment. Words are cheap, law suits expensive. How can an avowed defender of the First Amendment – and recall only Cruz has defended it at the Supreme Court – want to widen libel laws and sue the press? Libel is a civil penalty that amputates the First Amendment. Mr. Trump is a libel guy, not a free speech guy. Libel is the bedfellow of political correctness, not the reverse. Think about it.
  • (10)Objective is Power, not fixing anything. Finally, cut to the quick. Mr. Trump is clearly big on power, leveraging more from less. He fashions himself able to create wealth, although the jury is out until we see his tax returns – and the audit. Mr. Trump quashes the public’s right to know, and thinks nothing of it. Why do we let him? Why do we let a man who has chased power, wealth and other alluring prizes take us for fools? Neither unifier nor conservative, neither principled advocate nor successful manager of even one public company, he is not equipped nor prepared to fix anything. So let’s get it right, other than a skating rink in New York, this is no fixer.
  • The good news? There are still choices that will fix things – in July (convention), in November (election), and in our future. Let’s start thinking harder about this.
Click to expand...
Thanks Cassandra :) . I agree on some points but not quite sure about the others. Whered you find that?
 
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