darthtang aw
Active Member
Regardless who he is and what he does. Can his points be refuted?
So. Who are you voting for?
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ironeagle2006
Active Member
I live in a town that has be Devastated by both Mexico and Chinese factories. We used to be the Glass Factory of the world with 2 massive factories that combined produced over 50% of all the glass containers used in the USA in one year. In the late early 90's right after NAFTA was approved one of the factories was shut down and all production from that plant moved to a new plant in Mexico. 450 jobs lost in less than 3 months. A few years later we had a plant that made parts for some big electronics maker. Well they shipped all production to China and if they had Shipped the parts that our Plant had made to China those parts where Subject to a 45% tariff before being used. So the plant here was closed.
How is he going to pay for the Wall he wants. Very simple if your not paying out 30 Billion a year in Welfare to Illegal Immigrants in Direct costs plus all the other Costs for the Jobs they are keeping from Americans you could use that money to Pay for the Wall. Also if you can stop companies from moving Jobs to Mexico in the first place you have more tax revenue coming in. Now how to get that 500 Billion from China Back. Simple hammer them with the same Tariffs they hit us with. China needs US more then we need them. People can go without new Cell Phones or the new Hot Toy. Called force China to the table.
How is he going to pay for the Wall he wants. Very simple if your not paying out 30 Billion a year in Welfare to Illegal Immigrants in Direct costs plus all the other Costs for the Jobs they are keeping from Americans you could use that money to Pay for the Wall. Also if you can stop companies from moving Jobs to Mexico in the first place you have more tax revenue coming in. Now how to get that 500 Billion from China Back. Simple hammer them with the same Tariffs they hit us with. China needs US more then we need them. People can go without new Cell Phones or the new Hot Toy. Called force China to the table.
2quills
Well-Known Member
Meh, considering most of it is just opinion I'm sure it could.
Romney, tried to hit Trump on all of those points yesterday. Then Trump made him look pretty foolish in his rally right afterwards.
Fox poll lastnight showed 90% of people think Romney needs to go back to his hole that he crawled out of.
On a side note, both of my guys actually did pretty good lastnight in the debate. Cruz/Kasich. I'd prefer one of them get the nomination before Trump. But I'd back him if that's what it comes down to.
bang guy
Moderator
I somewhat disagree. I agree that any country that has some type of tariff on US imported goods needs to be given the same. Yep, absolutely.
That doesn't solve the problem though. Beaslbob thinks we all play by the same rules. If that were true then his market pressure theory would be right. Unfortunately, China, Mexico, India made the rules and they change the rules in their favor whenever they feel like it.
We need an internal solution.
Reduce tax rates to zero for companies using 100% US labor. Raise tax rates to 75% for companies using only 25% US labor.
You would be surprised at how fast our labor market becomes saturated.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
whatever rules "they" are playing with cannot overrule supply and demand. All that is required is US dollars go to China, Mexico, India, and while we're at it our largest trading partner Canada. The labor costs in those countries will increase in US dollars. No tariff policy, currency policy, or government action of any kind can over rule that or any other free market forces.
It is best from all countries to allow rapid adjustments to prevent the eventual collapse. Which will also happen in this country as we "fight" those market forces.
BTW almost a million cars are made in Alabama with very "foreign" nameplates. So they must know something about American labor not being mentioned here.
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bang guy
Moderator
d
I would suggest we alter our thinking prior to becoming a third world nation.
Those countries do not follow a free market, except for Canada. Or do you really believe they do?
I would suggest we alter our thinking prior to becoming a third world nation.
beaslbob
Well-Known Member
They don't have to follow a free market. Supply and demand cannot be overruled by any government laws or policy. US dollars will continue into their company regardless.
On fast way to become a third world country is for our economy to crash because of central government policies on trade and everything else.
bang guy
Moderator
LOL
You're trying to tell us that every person in the world makes a similar wage. That's just fantasy. Government policies have had profound effects on economies. These countries do not have free markets. We will soon not have anything resembling a free market.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Bang is correct on this point. As Americans I find the greater majority do not understand or even follow what is happening globally. How it affects us and so on. Bangs approach is simple in nature and would work to a degree. As many jobs are still done overseas.
However. Bang, I would like a definition for "U.S. Labor".
However. Bang, I would like a definition for "U.S. Labor".
darthtang aw
Active Member
I foresee a Supreme Court battle if that is the case.
bang guy
Moderator
It has been a long time coming. I will abide by and accept their decision.
darthtang aw
Active Member
I believe we can avoid the Supreme Court issue. But I need to check a few things before explaining first.
2quills
Well-Known Member
No Sir,
2014 statistics show roughly 970,000 foreign autos produced in Alabama. Honda (japan), Hyundai (korea) and Mercedes (germany) are the 3 foreign manufacturers in Alabama.
Vast majority of imports sold are still being imported. The sum total of all foreign autos sold in the U.S. was a little closer to 8 million several years ago.
Currently the numbers are closer to 5-6 mill.
However, in cases such as Japan and Korea the trade imbalances are enormous with our vehicles. Like over 600% with Japan.
Reason being is they over regulate the requirements for our cars to be sold there. They must meet stricter safety requirements above and beyond what we have here. Requirments that are not required or enforced upon their own manufacturers.
Thus roughly 1 Chevrolet is sold in Japan for every 1300 Toyotas sold here. The ones that do get through are too expensive for the average person in Japan.
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beaslbob
Well-Known Member
IMHO such stats are worthless and just appeal to emotions.
For instance my 2012 chevy sonic has 62% US content. And the toyota camray has more US content that any other sedan sold in the US,
2quills
Well-Known Member
I simply disagree. Who's designing, assembling and selling those Chevy's?
See I grew up in and around Metro Detroit. Most of my family is still there. My father still works for Ford (25 years at their testing labs).
I've seen the devastating impact from the loss of manufacturing that the big 3 had suffered. And how it crippled the city and left the state in distress.
The loss of those jobs was essentially the catalyst that ultimately led to so many people choosing or having to leave the state to survive (including myself).
Your Chevy Sonic is assembled by folks in Orion, Michigan. ImO the stats are only worthless if you're unwilling to consider those folks.
darthtang aw
Active Member
True. But how much of the big three moving from Detroit was assisted and brought about by union pension plans and such?
2quills
Well-Known Member
The unions were a huge factor. Those companies could not sustain what the unions were asking for once the impact of foreign competition made its way in.
Back in those days if you were in the Big 3 you had it made. Kushy job with amazing benefits and pay that you could virtually never be fired from.
They got hammered by the unions, competition brought about by foreign policy and a disastrous, corrupt local government.
Who would want to stay there?
darthtang aw
Active Member
The unions were just as corrupt. Had the unions not tried to put such a stranglehold on the companies there might not have been as significant of a problem.