Sump... sump... sump...

[seecrabrun]

It's that time again, time for me to consider a sump. I decide I need one, then back out, then again...

This time I'm ready to commit. I feel like it will be a crucial piece in my tank as I move towards adding corals.

So the tank I will be adding the sump to is a standard 29 gallon. It is on a premade stand with not a lot of room to work and there is absolutely no space to be used outside the stand.

I've researched sumps and building sumps multiple times and I can't come to a good conclusion. I feel like after all my research, building one would cost the same as buying one. But maybe you guys can help me figure it out.

I want the sump to house a refugium, and then at least most of the equipment already in the display tank.

I found this sump and it looks wonderful, but is it? Model 1 would be what would fit in my stand http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/proflex-sump.htm

I haven't seen much more that look like they would fit or look like they would house what I want. Though I don't actually understand how sumps work flow-wise, so I'm not the best judge of that.

Please help!

 

[snakeblitz33]

I think Flower would tell you that a sump is unnecessary and a canister filter will suit your needs better.

I personally think a sump is well worth the time, money and effort. I like the one you chose, but like you said, there is not much space.

You can buy an external overflow from eshopps for pretty reasonable price. A small pump like a quiet one or a mag drive that is rated for the same gph at 4ft head as your overflow box.

 

[seecrabrun]

A canister won't help me get equipment out of the display which one of the biggest reasons I want it, and then to keep a refugium in it.

 

[flower]

It's that time again, time for me to consider a sump. I decide I need one, then back out, then again...

This time I'm ready to commit. I feel like it will be a crucial piece in my tank as I move towards adding corals.

So the tank I will be adding the sump to is a standard 29 gallon. It is on a premade stand with not a lot of room to work and there is absolutely no space to be used outside the stand.

I've researched sumps and building sumps multiple times and I can't come to a good conclusion. I feel like after all my research, building one would cost the same as buying one. But maybe you guys can help me figure it out.

I want the sump to house a refugium, and then at least most of the equipment already in the display tank.

I found this sump and it looks wonderful, but is it? Model 1 would be what would fit in my stand http://www.aqueonproducts.com/products/proflex-sump.htm

I haven't seen much more that look like they would fit or look like they would house what I want. Though I don't actually understand how sumps work flow-wise, so I'm not the best judge of that.

Please help!

Acryl

I think Flower would tell you that a sump is unnecessary and a canister filter will suit your needs better. .

Snake, are you trying to pick a fight? I never said a sump was unnecessary, nor a bad idea at all. Sump systems are awesome, they add water volume, and a great place to keep equipment out of the display...best of all you can add a chamber for a refugium, which is always great to have. My only argument is that canister filters are not evil, nor a bad idea for filtration either, so LOL, quit picking on them.

Now what Seecrabrun needs is not our bickering, but your big brain to help him figure out how to set up the sump that will suite his needs best. He needs to know what pumps, overflow system, and all the details on how to go about getting it up and running. Now give this good fellow the advice he needs, and please explain how it works so he can wrap his mind around it.

Seecrabrun, my only advice is get a drilled tank for your system if you possibly can, because those overflow boxes that need a lifter pump are a pain in the butt. The lifter pump was the only thing that I would have changed on the system that the folks on the site made for me. However, they were adding a sump system to an existing established tank, there really wasn't a choice at that point. Acrylic51 kept saying he wasn't a big fan of lifter pumps...NOW I understand why.

 

[beaslbob]

Just some thoughts.

You can make an over the back overflow with $20 worth of pvc pipe.

The sump and refugium can be plastic storage containers. Large one for refug small one for sump.

the smaller sump container can be inside the larger in place of baffles.


When setting up and testing test for:

1) no flood with power out.
2) no flood when power comes back.
3) no flood (upper container {usually the tank}) when the over flow fails (breaking siphon, blockage)

And finally you can just partition the tank so you have a small area separated from the rest. That area can then be the refugium and you don't need to use an external refug/sump at all.


my .02

 

[beaslbob]

and you can use a couple of containers and setup up a test system in youe garage. Better to oops there then in the living room.

 

[seecrabrun]

This is the space I have to work with, mind the location of the outlet.

 

[beaslbob]

What I did was find the largest container I could put in with the longest dimension for and aft. The aft part stuck out behind the stand and allowed the drain do be a straight shot from the tank.

my .02

 

[aduvall]

Why does snake hate canister filters?

 

[seecrabrun]

Why does snake hate canister filters?

Doesn't really matter. Everyone has their opinion.

I definitely need to figure out plumbing. I don't want to drill my tank, mainly because I'm a girl. Haha. OK but really, I don't use power tools and I think it would just end with me breaking a few tanks I don't have the money to waste on.
I don't have the money to buy a predrilled tank and still be able to buy everything else I need.

I can have a straight shot to the sump once I figure out the overflow method. I'm concerned about noise as this tank is in the family room, we only have 1 TV, so I don't want it to drown out the TV with constant noise.

 

[snakeblitz33]

If you get an overflow such as an Eshoppes, it doesn't require a lifter pump as long as you have a matching pump.

An external overflow is simply a controlled siphon. When the water pump turns off, the flow stops but the siphon is still primed. When the pump resumes, the overflow continues to siphon.

 

[snakeblitz33]

What might help is knowing the distance from your sump to the top rim of your tank. That's called "head height". When you know the head height and what overflow your going to buy, then you can look at various pumps to see their head height charts and pick one that corresponds to the max drainage capacity for the overflow.

You also said you wanted one that was quiet,... Most external overflows are not going to be quiet. You could add a Maggie muffler to the standpipe and that will quiet it down quite a bit.

 

[flower]

Doesn't really matter. Everyone has their opinion.

I definitely need to figure out plumbing. I don't want to drill my tank, mainly because I'm a girl. Haha. OK but really, I don't use power tools and I think it would just end with me breaking a few tanks I don't have the money to waste on.
I don't have the money to buy a predrilled tank and still be able to buy everything else I need.

I can have a straight shot to the sump once I figure out the overflow method. I'm concerned about noise as this tank is in the family room, we only have 1 TV, so I don't want it to drown out the TV with constant noise.

LOL...I also said the exact same thing, I'm a girl and I don't use power tools... Knowing what I know now, if I decided to do a sump system again, I would go to a glass store, and have them drill it for me. The only problem being, if the tank has tempered glass. Most tanks have tempered glass on the bottom, but you have to find out if your tank has all tempered glass, there should be a sticker with the manufacturers name on it, to be able to find out.

I don't like overflows... the siphon does not always stay primed (there is always that chance), and if the power goes out and the siphon isn't working...when the power comes back on, the pump will start up, and without the siphon it will overflow the tank onto the floor. An overflow with a lifter pump is SUPOSSED to prevent that from happening...then to my dismay the lifter pump clogs up all the time, and the dumping into the floor happened anyway. Oh and it's noisy, they all are, some sound like a brook running, others sound like a drowning buffalo, making choking sucking noises...as Snake said, there are things you can do to lower the noise level. I liked the running creek noise, I found it relaxing... if you want silence, the only silent running filter, is a canister, even HOB filters make running water noises.

I seriously would NOT use a sump system if I had to use an overflow box...that's just my opinion. A drilled tank will save you all kinds of headaches, so I strongly recommend you try everything in your power to get the tank drilled. A sump is an awesome filter choice for many reasons, but drilled is the best method of doing that.

 

[snakeblitz33]

I've used eshopps external overflows in the past and they have never failed me. Just pair the proper pump with it and you will never have to worry about losing siphon,...

I guess that's just my experience with them,...

 

[seecrabrun]

The height from the floor to the very top of the tank is 49", the distance from the very bottom shelf inside the cabinet up to the very top of the tank is 45". Then the exact distance from the drop point inside the sump to the top of the tank would depend on where the plumbing is cut to end. This gives a range of about 40" head height, depending on the exact tank, plumbing, etc...

I'll probably feel the same way later about this, but dealing with drilling or getting the tank drilled is just way too much stress on me.
At one point I was going to build a sump myself and after days of calling around and driving around to all the locations listed in the phonebook and online... only 1 place was still in business, they are an auto glass shop, and were not very nice.
It isn't worth it to me right now to try and beg them to help me and I don't want to try and learn to drill it myself, buy all the equipment, and likely break a few tanks in the process.

I'm trying to work it out that should my overflow fail and it pump the sump all up into the tank, that it doesn't overflow onto the floor, or doesn't do it very much. That said. I live on a concrete slab, no floors, just rugs. So some flooding isn't a big deal to me.
My house flooded from rain water twice in a 6 week period, turns out there are a LOT of problems with drainage in my neighborhood, a lot of red tape, a lot of drama, and in the end I'm currently just stuck in a house that could flood at any time. So I've decided to leave the floors bare, buy only metal leg furniture, and learn to keep everything off the floor.

I also want to mention that this tank is only going to be in use for 2-3 years. So knowing it isn't meant to be a long term situation, I want to put very little into equipment/adjustments that are specific to this tank. I also try to make livestock purchases based on that. I won't invest into corals that don't like to be moved once they settle. Mostly I only want mushrooms anyway.

 

[flower]

Sounds like a plan...Snake will help you set up your plumbing. I always have to ask for help with stuff like that. Once you know what size pump and overflow, it's pretty simple to set up...

You should get flood insurance, for most of us it's never needed, but if your house is known for flooding, I would definitely get flood insurance. I was surprised to learn flooding was not automatically on my home owners insurance...it has to be a separate insurance to be covered.

 

[seecrabrun]

I do have it now. I asked about it when I bought my house and told it was $1200+ extra. Apparently that's only true if you live in an actual flood zone. I don't, I live in a stupidly built neighborhood where my yard somehow became the retaining pond...

 

[snakeblitz33]

Sorry to hear of your flooding troubles. I hope one day they are resolved.

A 29g tank with an 11g sump and approximately a 5' head height.

You need anywhere between 7x and 10x gph of your display tank going through the sump. An Eshoppes PF Nano 300 drains approximately 300 gallons per hour, but in actuality it's anywhere from 265-275, which puts you at where you need to be on drainage. To match the proper pump to your overflow, it should pump at minimum 300gph at five foot of head. Remember that it is easier to use a ball valve to cut water back than it is to try to get more out of the pump.

A mag drive 5 puts out apprioximately 325gph at 5' of head but a mag drive 3 is cheaper and might work well within the required range. I had a mag 3 with an Eshoppes nano 300 at 4' of head and I still had to dial it down with a ball valve.

I looked at other brands of pumps, like the quiet one and it doesn't appear that there is one within the correct gph range for your setup. Quiet ones are cheaper yet.

 

[snakeblitz33]

Oh, something that can quiet down the pump from vibrating too much is by taking a tube of aquarium safe silicone and adding beads/strips of it to the side of the pump that will sit on the glass or acrylic sump.

 

[beaslbob]

Doesn't really matter. Everyone has their opinion.

I definitely need to figure out plumbing. I don't want to drill my tank, mainly because I'm a girl. Haha. OK but really, I don't use power tools and I think it would just end with me breaking a few tanks I don't have the money to waste on.
I don't have the money to buy a predrilled tank and still be able to buy everything else I need.

I can have a straight shot to the sump once I figure out the overflow method. I'm concerned about noise as this tank is in the family room, we only have 1 TV, so I don't want it to drown out the TV with constant noise.

I thought girls had figures for everything. LOL

Anyrate here is an old thread I did on a pvc overflow. $20 of pvc and a saw should be all it takes. Give it a try and play around with a couple of containers in the garage to figure out how it works.

https://forums.saltwaterfish.com/index.php?threads/the-beaslbob-trap-s.370270/#post-3362605

then come back and tell us what a good thing a girl did.


my .o2