Sure sign your policy needs a revamp
- Thread starter reefraff
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aggiealum
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541683
I hope there is a plan B
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/russian-deputy-pm-laughs-at-obamas-sanctions/
Yea, do nothing and just ignore them. We could always just go the Republican/McCain route and lob a few nukes their way. Nothing like starting WW3 over a port that doesn't benefit the US in the least.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541683
I hope there is a plan B
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/03/russian-deputy-pm-laughs-at-obamas-sanctions/
Yea, do nothing and just ignore them. We could always just go the Republican/McCain route and lob a few nukes their way. Nothing like starting WW3 over a port that doesn't benefit the US in the least.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541696
Yea, do nothing and just ignore them. We could always just go the Republican/McCain route and lob a few nukes their way. Nothing like starting WW3 over a port that doesn't benefit the US in the least.
Moronic thinking like that (do nothing) is what gave us Stalin and Hitler. And I have yet to hear Mclame or any other Republican of note suggest lobbing bombs of any kind on them. Heck, the State Department couldn't even say if any of the Russian citizens they placed the sanctions on had any assets in the US to be frozen. That was reassuring LOL!
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541696
Yea, do nothing and just ignore them. We could always just go the Republican/McCain route and lob a few nukes their way. Nothing like starting WW3 over a port that doesn't benefit the US in the least.
Moronic thinking like that (do nothing) is what gave us Stalin and Hitler. And I have yet to hear Mclame or any other Republican of note suggest lobbing bombs of any kind on them. Heck, the State Department couldn't even say if any of the Russian citizens they placed the sanctions on had any assets in the US to be frozen. That was reassuring LOL!
darthtang aw
Active Member
Yea, do nothing and just ignore them. We could always just go the Republican/McCain route and lob a few nukes their way. Nothing like starting WW3 over a port that doesn't benefit the US in the least.
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
aggiealum
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541703
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
Uh yea. I'm sick of the world expecting the US to be The Great Defender anytime some piss ant country gets threatened or overtaken. It's none of our business.
Give me a break. The Republicans and McCain love a good war. Those idiots stuck in Iraq, trillions of dollars in debt, thousands of lives lost, and for what? Iraq's right back where they were 13 years ago.
So what's the Great Republican's answer to Putin's little takeover if it isn't sanctions? You ready for another Cold War? You want to go running our carriers into the Black Sea, just to watch them get sunk by some Russian sub?
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541703
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
Uh yea. I'm sick of the world expecting the US to be The Great Defender anytime some piss ant country gets threatened or overtaken. It's none of our business.
Give me a break. The Republicans and McCain love a good war. Those idiots stuck in Iraq, trillions of dollars in debt, thousands of lives lost, and for what? Iraq's right back where they were 13 years ago.
So what's the Great Republican's answer to Putin's little takeover if it isn't sanctions? You ready for another Cold War? You want to go running our carriers into the Black Sea, just to watch them get sunk by some Russian sub?
aggiealum
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541698
Moronic thinking like that (do nothing) is what gave us Stalin and Hitler. And I have yet to hear Mclame or any other Republican of note suggest lobbing bombs of any kind on them. Heck, the State Department couldn't even say if any of the Russian citizens they placed the sanctions on had any assets in the US to be frozen. That was reassuring LOL!
Brother. So go in with guns blazing? Talk about moronic. Ask the ditz Sarah about that option. Her house in Wasilla would be the first to go.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541698
Moronic thinking like that (do nothing) is what gave us Stalin and Hitler. And I have yet to hear Mclame or any other Republican of note suggest lobbing bombs of any kind on them. Heck, the State Department couldn't even say if any of the Russian citizens they placed the sanctions on had any assets in the US to be frozen. That was reassuring LOL!
Brother. So go in with guns blazing? Talk about moronic. Ask the ditz Sarah about that option. Her house in Wasilla would be the first to go.
reefraff
Active Member
If you are going to place sanctions on them try something that doesn't make them laugh. First thing we should do is change our regulations to make it easier to export natural gas. That will hurt them as much as anything we could do. Kick them out of the IMF and G8 as well. The natural gas thing will raise prices here some but it's cheaper than military action and will create a few jobs here as well.
aggiealum
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541708
If you are going to place sanctions on them try something that doesn't make them laugh. First thing we should do is change our regulations to make it easier to export natural gas. That will hurt them as much as anything we could do. Kick them out of the IMF and G8 as well. The natural gas thing will raise prices here some but it's cheaper than military action and will create a few jobs here as well.
I'm sure Putin would laugh just as hard excluding him out of two organizations he obviously doesn't care about in the first place. Ukraine is the one whose dependent on Russia's natural gas, not the other way around. The European countries are the one's getting hosed over that debacle, not the US. It's not even about the natural gas. Russia wants Crimea because of its port, and it looks like they got what they wanted.
Military action? Seriously? Exactly what kind of "military action" would you propose the US attempt against Russia? The days of ground battles and troop deployments is long gone. Pick a fight with Russia, you might as well throw China and North Korea into the mix. You surely don't think either of those countries would side with the US in that dispute. Exactly where is France, Germany, England and the other European countries in this little tet-a-tet? I hear crickets coming from that bunch. Of course not, they'll sit back yet again and let the US take the lead.
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541708
If you are going to place sanctions on them try something that doesn't make them laugh. First thing we should do is change our regulations to make it easier to export natural gas. That will hurt them as much as anything we could do. Kick them out of the IMF and G8 as well. The natural gas thing will raise prices here some but it's cheaper than military action and will create a few jobs here as well.
I'm sure Putin would laugh just as hard excluding him out of two organizations he obviously doesn't care about in the first place. Ukraine is the one whose dependent on Russia's natural gas, not the other way around. The European countries are the one's getting hosed over that debacle, not the US. It's not even about the natural gas. Russia wants Crimea because of its port, and it looks like they got what they wanted.
Military action? Seriously? Exactly what kind of "military action" would you propose the US attempt against Russia? The days of ground battles and troop deployments is long gone. Pick a fight with Russia, you might as well throw China and North Korea into the mix. You surely don't think either of those countries would side with the US in that dispute. Exactly where is France, Germany, England and the other European countries in this little tet-a-tet? I hear crickets coming from that bunch. Of course not, they'll sit back yet again and let the US take the lead.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541703
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
So what word did we and the EU break?
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541703
So you are good with the U.S. Going back on its word as well as the european union. No one has stated bombs and nukes should be used. Where do you get your info?
So what word did we and the EU break?
darthtang aw
Active Member
So what word did we and the EU break?
Budapest memorandum and by default a previous helsinki treaty that is directly tied to this situation. Russia is violating the memorandum. Thus making us and england obligated to correct the issue to ensure ukraine es soverenty is still respected. As all three signatories agreed to do just that.
Budapest memorandum and by default a previous helsinki treaty that is directly tied to this situation. Russia is violating the memorandum. Thus making us and england obligated to correct the issue to ensure ukraine es soverenty is still respected. As all three signatories agreed to do just that.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Uh yea. I'm sick of the world expecting the US to be The Great Defender anytime some piss ant country gets threatened or overtaken. It's none of our business.
We said the same thing before WW1 and WW2. Not saying this will escalate that far. However Ukraine has not violated international law so there is no justification for encroachment on their territory. It is expected because we agreed to it. When a country gives up over 1000 nuclear weapons in return for its borders and independence respected...then the contract should be fulfilled. You are also ignoring the economic impact this will have. We are now a global economy...remember? So what happens in some "pissant" country does matter. You want to stop caring about the rest of the worlds issues and politics, then stop buying cheap goods from other countries. Shut down our international trade....wait...you have property in the caymans, I bet you might suddenly care if that "piss ant" country was suddenly occupied by Russia.
We said the same thing before WW1 and WW2. Not saying this will escalate that far. However Ukraine has not violated international law so there is no justification for encroachment on their territory. It is expected because we agreed to it. When a country gives up over 1000 nuclear weapons in return for its borders and independence respected...then the contract should be fulfilled. You are also ignoring the economic impact this will have. We are now a global economy...remember? So what happens in some "pissant" country does matter. You want to stop caring about the rest of the worlds issues and politics, then stop buying cheap goods from other countries. Shut down our international trade....wait...you have property in the caymans, I bet you might suddenly care if that "piss ant" country was suddenly occupied by Russia.
reefraff
Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541711
I'm sure Putin would laugh just as hard excluding him out of two organizations he obviously doesn't care about in the first place. Ukraine is the one whose dependent on Russia's natural gas, not the other way around. The European countries are the one's getting hosed over that debacle, not the US. It's not even about the natural gas. Russia wants Crimea because of its port, and it looks like they got what they wanted.
Military action? Seriously? Exactly what kind of "military action" would you propose the US attempt against Russia? The days of ground battles and troop deployments is long gone. Pick a fight with Russia, you might as well throw China and North Korea into the mix. You surely don't think either of those countries would side with the US in that dispute. Exactly where is France, Germany, England and the other European countries in this little tet-a-tet? I hear crickets coming from that bunch. Of course not, they'll sit back yet again and let the US take the lead.
Did you hit your head or something? Where did I suggest military action. Ukraine and most of Europe is dependent on Russia for nat gas which is why we sould export more. And if you don't think Putin would care if he were thrown out of those organizations you are clueless. The dude has a bigger ego than 0bama.
Originally Posted by AggieAlum http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541711
I'm sure Putin would laugh just as hard excluding him out of two organizations he obviously doesn't care about in the first place. Ukraine is the one whose dependent on Russia's natural gas, not the other way around. The European countries are the one's getting hosed over that debacle, not the US. It's not even about the natural gas. Russia wants Crimea because of its port, and it looks like they got what they wanted.
Military action? Seriously? Exactly what kind of "military action" would you propose the US attempt against Russia? The days of ground battles and troop deployments is long gone. Pick a fight with Russia, you might as well throw China and North Korea into the mix. You surely don't think either of those countries would side with the US in that dispute. Exactly where is France, Germany, England and the other European countries in this little tet-a-tet? I hear crickets coming from that bunch. Of course not, they'll sit back yet again and let the US take the lead.
Did you hit your head or something? Where did I suggest military action. Ukraine and most of Europe is dependent on Russia for nat gas which is why we sould export more. And if you don't think Putin would care if he were thrown out of those organizations you are clueless. The dude has a bigger ego than 0bama.
aggiealum
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541728
We said the same thing before WW1 and WW2. Not saying this will escalate that far. However Ukraine has not violated international law so there is no justification for encroachment on their territory. It is expected because we agreed to it. When a country gives up over 1000 nuclear weapons in return for its borders and independence respected...then the contract should be fulfilled. You are also ignoring the economic impact this will have. We are now a global economy...remember? So what happens in some "pissant" country does matter. You want to stop caring about the rest of the worlds issues and politics, then stop buying cheap goods from other countries. Shut down our international trade....wait...you have property in the caymans, I bet you might suddenly care if that "piss ant" country was suddenly occupied by Russia.
Probably the most inaccurate, factually ignorant, statement I have read in a few months.
Sanctions on russian and ukrainian individuals involving their Assets in the EU and the U.S, WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE ASSETS THERE are not sanctions...lol.. Restricting their travel to the U.S. and the EU when they don't travel there are not sanctions....lol...
The Republicans are asking for STRICTER sanctions. Crap that will actually affect them. And calling for an increase in natural gas exporting to further affect Russias economy. After Obama levelled his "sanctions" The russian stock market saw an upsurge and the Russian Ruble gained in value....Lmao...Way to go with those sanctions...that really hurt.
Ignorant statement? Why? Please tell me how the US has benefitted from the most useless war in our history. Iraq is the largest blunder we ever got involved in. Period.
Please. You can't compare today with how things were back when we fought in WW1 and WW2. If any one country tried to pull some "world domination" move, a push of a button would end that conflict and every life on this planet. Neither the US, Russia, China, or that idiot in North Korea has the balls to try it.
Like I said, Russia could care less about Ukraine, and more about Crimea. It's their lifeline out to the world. Now that they have that, I doubt they'll even bother Ukraine.
I'd be glad to quit buying "cheap products" from other countries. Unfortunately, "Made In America" has become non-existent. Major corporations are the one's keeping us involved with foreign countries. Why? Because they can get some kid in China to work in a sweat farm for $2/day to build their products instead of having to pay some high school kid $8/hr to do it here. Even with import taxes and the cost of freight they still come out ahead.
Your ignorance in foreign investments is baffling. WW3 could start tomorrow, and I'd still have physical property in those countries. Unless they made some dramatic change in their taxation of existing land, wouldn't affect me in the least.
Define "STRICTER" sanctions. So you want your costs for natural gas to go up so some pissant country can survive? Whatever happen to the "survival of the fittest" theory? You want to throw your hard-earned money to help a country that you'll never step foot in, knock yourself out.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541728
We said the same thing before WW1 and WW2. Not saying this will escalate that far. However Ukraine has not violated international law so there is no justification for encroachment on their territory. It is expected because we agreed to it. When a country gives up over 1000 nuclear weapons in return for its borders and independence respected...then the contract should be fulfilled. You are also ignoring the economic impact this will have. We are now a global economy...remember? So what happens in some "pissant" country does matter. You want to stop caring about the rest of the worlds issues and politics, then stop buying cheap goods from other countries. Shut down our international trade....wait...you have property in the caymans, I bet you might suddenly care if that "piss ant" country was suddenly occupied by Russia.
Probably the most inaccurate, factually ignorant, statement I have read in a few months.
Sanctions on russian and ukrainian individuals involving their Assets in the EU and the U.S, WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE ASSETS THERE are not sanctions...lol.. Restricting their travel to the U.S. and the EU when they don't travel there are not sanctions....lol...
The Republicans are asking for STRICTER sanctions. Crap that will actually affect them. And calling for an increase in natural gas exporting to further affect Russias economy. After Obama levelled his "sanctions" The russian stock market saw an upsurge and the Russian Ruble gained in value....Lmao...Way to go with those sanctions...that really hurt.
Ignorant statement? Why? Please tell me how the US has benefitted from the most useless war in our history. Iraq is the largest blunder we ever got involved in. Period.
Please. You can't compare today with how things were back when we fought in WW1 and WW2. If any one country tried to pull some "world domination" move, a push of a button would end that conflict and every life on this planet. Neither the US, Russia, China, or that idiot in North Korea has the balls to try it.
Like I said, Russia could care less about Ukraine, and more about Crimea. It's their lifeline out to the world. Now that they have that, I doubt they'll even bother Ukraine.
I'd be glad to quit buying "cheap products" from other countries. Unfortunately, "Made In America" has become non-existent. Major corporations are the one's keeping us involved with foreign countries. Why? Because they can get some kid in China to work in a sweat farm for $2/day to build their products instead of having to pay some high school kid $8/hr to do it here. Even with import taxes and the cost of freight they still come out ahead.
Your ignorance in foreign investments is baffling. WW3 could start tomorrow, and I'd still have physical property in those countries. Unless they made some dramatic change in their taxation of existing land, wouldn't affect me in the least.
Define "STRICTER" sanctions. So you want your costs for natural gas to go up so some pissant country can survive? Whatever happen to the "survival of the fittest" theory? You want to throw your hard-earned money to help a country that you'll never step foot in, knock yourself out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541716
So what word did we and the EU break?
Budapest memorandum and by default a previous helsinki treaty that is directly tied to this situation. Russia is violating the memorandum. Thus making us and england obligated to correct the issue to ensure ukraine es soverenty is still respected. As all three signatories agreed to do just that.
Neither require USA or European nations to rush to Ukraine's aide militarily. That one of the signees violates, doesn't mean the others go to war to protect the Ukraine.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541716
So what word did we and the EU break?
Budapest memorandum and by default a previous helsinki treaty that is directly tied to this situation. Russia is violating the memorandum. Thus making us and england obligated to correct the issue to ensure ukraine es soverenty is still respected. As all three signatories agreed to do just that.
Neither require USA or European nations to rush to Ukraine's aide militarily. That one of the signees violates, doesn't mean the others go to war to protect the Ukraine.
darthtang aw
Active Member
Neither require USA or European nations to rush to Ukraine's aide militarily. That one of the signees violates, doesn't mean the others go to war to protect the Ukraine.
I never stated war was the option. Just that we have an obligation. We did some sanctions. Pointless sanctions. We can do more without ever firing a shot.
I never stated war was the option. Just that we have an obligation. We did some sanctions. Pointless sanctions. We can do more without ever firing a shot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541740
Neither require USA or European nations to rush to Ukraine's aide militarily. That one of the signees violates, doesn't mean the others go to war to protect the Ukraine.
I never stated war was the option. Just that we have an obligation. We did some sanctions. Pointless sanctions. We can do more without ever firing a shot.
You said USA and EU broke our word. What word did we break? We acknowledge Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia violated the agreements, not USA and EU.
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/397376/sure-sign-your-policy-needs-a-revamp#post_3541740
Neither require USA or European nations to rush to Ukraine's aide militarily. That one of the signees violates, doesn't mean the others go to war to protect the Ukraine.
I never stated war was the option. Just that we have an obligation. We did some sanctions. Pointless sanctions. We can do more without ever firing a shot.
You said USA and EU broke our word. What word did we break? We acknowledge Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia violated the agreements, not USA and EU.
darthtang aw
Active Member
You said USA and EU broke our word. What word did we break? We acknowledge Ukraine's sovereignty. Russia violated the agreements, not USA and EU.
2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation,
and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the
threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of
their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except
in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the
Charter of the United Nations
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;
Since russia has broken this agreement, the U.S. through the UN is onbligated to assist in maintaining Ukraine's sovernty. If we do not, we break our agreement to respect their borders. as by doing nothing we are disrespecting their borders. Basically saying russia is good to go and take Crimea.
2. The United States of America, the Russian Federation,
and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern
Ireland, reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the
threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of
their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except
in self-defense or otherwise in accordance with the
Charter of the United Nations
1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;
2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or
political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;
Since russia has broken this agreement, the U.S. through the UN is onbligated to assist in maintaining Ukraine's sovernty. If we do not, we break our agreement to respect their borders. as by doing nothing we are disrespecting their borders. Basically saying russia is good to go and take Crimea.