Tang Police

chaoticdamsel

chaoticdamsel

Member
I don't think the point here is to dissuade experienced members from pointing out to new hobbiests what they are doing wrong. People only learn from their mistakes if they know they have made mistakes in the first place. However, that criticism and correction has to be done in a polite and constructive way, otherwise people get defensive and stop listening.
When you've been in the hobby for a long time, I think it's easy to take the 'basic' knowledge for granted. To an experienced saltwater enthusiast, not cycling with damsels, not keeping tangs in a 30 gallon and not putting anemones in a brand new tank is just common place, common sense knowledge. So they want to lash out and smack someone upside the back of the head when they try to do something that seems completely ridiculous to them.
There are some newcomers that just don't want to listen, that's true, but I think most have a genuine desire to learn and do things right. They will, however, make mistakes along the way... just like everyone does when they first get into the hobby.
So in short, just take a deep breath, try to remember what it was like to be a newbie and be supportive. People respond better to being guided than they do to being shoved.
 
sueandherzoo

sueandherzoo

Active Member
Originally Posted by ChaoticDamsel
http:///forum/post/2953338
I don't think the point here is to dissuade experienced members from pointing out to new hobbiests what they are doing wrong. People only learn from their mistakes if they know they have made mistakes in the first place. However, that criticism and correction has to be done in a polite and constructive way, otherwise people get defensive and stop listening.
When you've been in the hobby for a long time, I think it's easy to take the 'basic' knowledge for granted. To an experienced saltwater enthusiast, not cycling with damsels, not keeping tangs in a 30 gallon and not putting anemones in a brand new tank is just common place, common sense knowledge. So they want to lash out and smack someone upside the back of the head when they try to do something that seems completely ridiculous to them.
There are some newcomers that just don't want to listen, that's true, but I think most have a genuine desire to learn and do things right. They will, however, make mistakes along the way... just like everyone does when they first get into the hobby.
So in short, just take a deep breath, try to remember what it was like to be a newbie and be supportive. People respond better to being guided than they do to being shoved.
Very well said and very true and I agree completely, EXCEPT when the newbies come on here armed with an attitude. I don't know how you seasoned and experienced reefers are able to bite your tongue and keep from smacking them up side the head! If the questions and the corresponding answers are placed and received with an earnest desire to learn, full steam ahead, but I've seen some on here that almost seem like they have a chip on their shoulder or are looking for a fight, and those are probably best ignored. With some people it's almost like they just can't be helped, or almost don't want to be.
Keep up the good work - I've learned (and am learning) so much here.
Sue
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
I realize I am doing what I preached against. Going off on a tangent but I think and this is just my own feelings. The more experienced hobbyists have come to the boards to exchange ideas and receive help on more complicate problems. I do not believe many of those members came here to be teachers. The fact that so many experienced hobbyists take the time to answer questions that are elementary, many of which are redundant is what makes this a great site. No one wants to feel like they are being talked down to or scolded but most of the older hobbyists would have loved a site like this to get entry-level answers. Perhaps that has made them feel that the new hobbyist is not putting in the time to do their own homework as they had to. When I suggest to someone to buy a book, and they question why. I ask myself how committed can they be ? I am not saying its right. I feel if a new hobbyist asks a question and they get an honest factual answer they should take it and move on no matter how it was packaged. As I have said before I feel the ends justify the means. Get the answers you need bite your tongue if you have to and move on.
 
aquaguy24

aquaguy24

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
http:///forum/post/2951504
Boo... hiss...

A-TI-CA, A-TI-CA, A-TI-CA!!!!!!

In the immortal words of Run-DMC...
%$#&@ THE POLICE!!!

(or was that Ice Cube??)
i think it was ICE-T..he wore a cop uniform on a cover of rolling stones mag..just to tease the cops...
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by nitschke65
http:///forum/post/2956042
I love iced tea. I make mine with lemon and a little artificial sweetener. Gee I wonder what this thread is about.

My friend do you really think the boards are ready for the two of us in Agreement this could be the start of somting scary VERY scary
 
nordy

nordy

Active Member
Thanks Bang Guy, for being straight up with the peeps and telling it like it is! One of the things that I really, really, really, enjoy about this site is being able to help people new to the hobby with answers that my moderate level of experience allows me to feel comfortable in posting. A lot of people, like me, have been in the hobby for years before we found SWF.com and come on board to find that our experience, earned without feedback and knowledge, can be helpful but also woefully lacking in depth.
Some people on this site have way too thin skins and can't take any negative comments or feedback whatsoever. That's too bad because if you really love the hobby, as I do and many, many, others do, then one of the highest callings we can aspire to is to advance the hobby and spread the knowledge and share with other people our personal experiences. If somebody flames us, we need to step back, not react, and move on. That type of person is not doing anything to advance this hobby that we love and it is a waste of time and resources to get into (bad word that begins with P) matches.
So, I welcome and thank you for your efforts to make this a nicer place to be and I hope that everybody else can be on board with this mission!
 
tropills

tropills

Member
here you should add this to the top of the page it answers a lot on what tang they can have for their size tank.

If you think someone is getting out of line, please report the post to the moderators. Do not attempt to take matters into your own hands.
For newcomers we offer the following advice. This is not intended to be the last word in tang keeping, but we suggest you should challenge this advice only if you have a good basis for doing so:
1. Tangs are not good choices for newly set up aquaria. To thrive they need a stable environment with pristine water conditions. Anyone thinking their newly set up aquarium is stable is invited to read through the following thread:
Maturity Issues
2. Tangs are medium to large, active fish that need plenty of space. On the question of tank sizes, we defer to Scott W. Michael, who recommends the following minimum sizes in Marine Fishes, 500+ Essential-To-Know Aquarium Species, Microcosm Ltd., 1999:
Acanthurus achilles, Achilles Surgeonfish, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus japonicus, Powder Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus lineatus, Lined or Clown Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus nigricans, Whitecheek Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus olivaceus, Orangeshoulder Surgeonfish, 135 gal (510l).
Acanthurus pyroferus, Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus sohal, Sohal Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus tristegus, Convict Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus tristis, Indian Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis, Chevron Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Ctenochaetus strigosus, Kole's Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Naso brevirostris, Spotted Unicornfish, 180 gal (685l).
Naso lituratus, Orangespine Unicornfish or Naso Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Naso unicornis, Bluespine Unicornfish, 200 gal (760l).
Paracanthurus hepatus, Pacific Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Zebrasoma desjardinii, Indian Ocean or Red Sea Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma flavescens, Yellow Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma scopas, Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma xanthurum, Purple Tang, 100 gal (380l).
You will note that none of these minimum sizes are less than 75 gallons. If you have a tang in a smaller tank, you should expect that some people will give you a hard time about it. Expressing outrage about that could result in suspension of your posting privileges. We are not, BTW, giving a free pass to the self-styled "Tang Police" to be abusive.
3. The above sizes assume a standard rectangular shape with plenty of open swimming space. If your tank is full to the brim with coral, your tang won't be happy. Tanks 125G or larger are assumed to be at least six feet long (approx. two meters). Where possible, choose longer rather than deeper shapes. While smaller species may be OK in a four foot tank, they will probably do better in a five foot or longer tank.
4. We do not condone the practice of keeping more than one specimen of the same or very similar species together in the same aquarium, except possibly for Zebrasoma species in a very large tank.
5. If you wish to keep multiple dissimilar tangs in the same aquarium, we recommend you have an aquarium significantly larger than the sizes listed above.
If you are an experienced aquarist with something constructive to add, please feel free to comment on this topic. However, stating an inflamatory opinion just to get a reaction is considered a violation
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by Nordy
http:///forum/post/2958401
Thanks Bang Guy, for being straight up with the peeps and telling it like it is! One of the things that I really, really, really, enjoy about this site is being able to help people new to the hobby with answers that my moderate level of experience allows me to feel comfortable in posting. A lot of people, like me, have been in the hobby for years before we found SWF.com and come on board to find that our experience, earned without feedback and knowledge, can be helpful but also woefully lacking in depth.
Some people on this site have way too thin skins and can't take any negative comments or feedback whatsoever. That's too bad because if you really love the hobby, as I do and many, many, others do, then one of the highest callings we can aspire to is to advance the hobby and spread the knowledge and share with other people our personal experiences. If somebody flames us, we need to step back, not react, and move on. That type of person is not doing anything to advance this hobby that we love and it is a waste of time and resources to get into (bad word that begins with P) matches.
So, I welcome and thank you for your efforts to make this a nicer place to be and I hope that everybody else can be on board with this mission!
any dog lover is a freind of mine
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Originally Posted by tropills
http:///forum/post/2958441
here you should add this to the top of the page it answers a lot on what tang they can have for their size tank.

If you think someone is getting out of line, please report the post to the moderators. Do not attempt to take matters into your own hands.
For newcomers we offer the following advice. This is not intended to be the last word in tang keeping, but we suggest you should challenge this advice only if you have a good basis for doing so:
1. Tangs are not good choices for newly set up aquaria. To thrive they need a stable environment with pristine water conditions. Anyone thinking their newly set up aquarium is stable is invited to read through the following thread:
Maturity Issues
2. Tangs are medium to large, active fish that need plenty of space. On the question of tank sizes, we defer to Scott W. Michael, who recommends the following minimum sizes in Marine Fishes, 500+ Essential-To-Know Aquarium Species, Microcosm Ltd., 1999:
Acanthurus achilles, Achilles Surgeonfish, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus japonicus, Powder Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus lineatus, Lined or Clown Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus nigricans, Whitecheek Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus olivaceus, Orangeshoulder Surgeonfish, 135 gal (510l).
Acanthurus pyroferus, Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus sohal, Sohal Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus tristegus, Convict Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus tristis, Indian Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis, Chevron Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Ctenochaetus strigosus, Kole's Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Naso brevirostris, Spotted Unicornfish, 180 gal (685l).
Naso lituratus, Orangespine Unicornfish or Naso Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Naso unicornis, Bluespine Unicornfish, 200 gal (760l).
Paracanthurus hepatus, Pacific Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Zebrasoma desjardinii, Indian Ocean or Red Sea Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma flavescens, Yellow Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma scopas, Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma xanthurum, Purple Tang, 100 gal (380l).
You will note that none of these minimum sizes are less than 75 gallons. If you have a tang in a smaller tank, you should expect that some people will give you a hard time about it. Expressing outrage about that could result in suspension of your posting privileges. We are not, BTW, giving a free pass to the self-styled "Tang Police" to be abusive.
3. The above sizes assume a standard rectangular shape with plenty of open swimming space. If your tank is full to the brim with coral, your tang won't be happy. Tanks 125G or larger are assumed to be at least six feet long (approx. two meters). Where possible, choose longer rather than deeper shapes. While smaller species may be OK in a four foot tank, they will probably do better in a five foot or longer tank.
4. We do not condone the practice of keeping more than one specimen of the same or very similar species together in the same aquarium, except possibly for Zebrasoma species in a very large tank.
5. If you wish to keep multiple dissimilar tangs in the same aquarium, we recommend you have an aquarium significantly larger than the sizes listed above.
If you are an experienced aquarist with something constructive to add, please feel free to comment on this topic. However, stating an inflamatory opinion just to get a reaction is considered a violation
Finally some one understood the subliminal message in this thread was about Tangs
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by tropills
http:///forum/post/2958441
here you should add this to the top of the page it answers a lot on what tang they can have for their size tank.

If you think someone is getting out of line, please report the post to the moderators. Do not attempt to take matters into your own hands.
For newcomers we offer the following advice. This is not intended to be the last word in tang keeping, but we suggest you should challenge this advice only if you have a good basis for doing so:
1. Tangs are not good choices for newly set up aquaria. To thrive they need a stable environment with pristine water conditions. Anyone thinking their newly set up aquarium is stable is invited to read through the following thread:
Maturity Issues
2. Tangs are medium to large, active fish that need plenty of space. On the question of tank sizes, we defer to Scott W. Michael, who recommends the following minimum sizes in Marine Fishes, 500+ Essential-To-Know Aquarium Species, Microcosm Ltd., 1999:
Acanthurus achilles, Achilles Surgeonfish, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus coeruleus, Atlantic Blue Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus japonicus, Powder Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus leucosternon, Powder Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Acanthurus lineatus, Lined or Clown Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus nigricans, Whitecheek Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus olivaceus, Orangeshoulder Surgeonfish, 135 gal (510l).
Acanthurus pyroferus, Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus sohal, Sohal Surgeonfish, 180 gal (680l).
Acanthurus tristegus, Convict Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Acanthurus tristis, Indian Mimic Surgeonfish, 75 gal (285l).
Ctenochaetus hawaiiensis, Chevron Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Ctenochaetus strigosus, Kole's Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Naso brevirostris, Spotted Unicornfish, 180 gal (685l).
Naso lituratus, Orangespine Unicornfish or Naso Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Naso unicornis, Bluespine Unicornfish, 200 gal (760l).
Paracanthurus hepatus, Pacific Blue Tang, 100 gal (380l).
Zebrasoma desjardinii, Indian Ocean or Red Sea Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma flavescens, Yellow Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma scopas, Brown Tang, 75 gal (285l).
Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).
Zebrasoma xanthurum, Purple Tang, 100 gal (380l).
You will note that none of these minimum sizes are less than 75 gallons. If you have a tang in a smaller tank, you should expect that some people will give you a hard time about it. Expressing outrage about that could result in suspension of your posting privileges. We are not, BTW, giving a free pass to the self-styled "Tang Police" to be abusive.
3. The above sizes assume a standard rectangular shape with plenty of open swimming space. If your tank is full to the brim with coral, your tang won't be happy. Tanks 125G or larger are assumed to be at least six feet long (approx. two meters). Where possible, choose longer rather than deeper shapes. While smaller species may be OK in a four foot tank, they will probably do better in a five foot or longer tank.
4. We do not condone the practice of keeping more than one specimen of the same or very similar species together in the same aquarium, except possibly for Zebrasoma species in a very large tank.
5. If you wish to keep multiple dissimilar tangs in the same aquarium, we recommend you have an aquarium significantly larger than the sizes listed above.
If you are an experienced aquarist with something constructive to add, please feel free to comment on this topic. However, stating an inflamatory opinion just to get a reaction is considered a violation
I have suggested that before, that forum has it right.
I still think those sizes are small.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2958841
I have suggested that before, that forum has it right.
I still think those sizes are small.
Keep in mind that those "suggested" tank sizes are "minimum". It does seem that so many hobbiests focus on "minimum" for their animals. I don't understand why you would want to just meet the minimum but, it's their tank.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by tropills
http:///forum/post/2958441
Zebrasoma veliferum, Sailfin Tang, 135 gal (510l).

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2959018
Keep in mind that those "suggested" tank sizes are "minimum". It does seem that so many hobbiests focus on "minimum" for their animals. I don't understand why you would want to just meet the minimum but, it's their tank.
You're preaching to the choir on the minimum tank size thing. However take the sailfin tang. There is a Bass Pro that has a tank of sailfin's. And literally their sailfins are 14 inches long and about 12 inches top to bottom (without fins) There is no way that a 135 is big enough for a fish that big. Albeit that is the biggest sailfin's I've EVER seen, but maybe there is a reason for that.
 
tropills

tropills

Member
I agree,, they are just guide lines, but it can give someone a idea of what size minimum tank they should have before purchasing that 10 inch sohal with streamers for their 29 gallon tank.
 
saltfan

saltfan

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/2953740
I realize I am doing what I preached against. Going off on a tangent but I think and this is just my own feelings. The more experienced hobbyists have come to the boards to exchange ideas and receive help on more complicate problems. I do not believe many of those members came here to be teachers. The fact that so many experienced hobbyists take the time to answer questions that are elementary, many of which are redundant is what makes this a great site. No one wants to feel like they are being talked down to or scolded but most of the older hobbyists would have loved a site like this to get entry-level answers. Perhaps that has made them feel that the new hobbyist is not putting in the time to do their own homework as they had to. When I suggest to someone to buy a book, and they question why. I ask myself how committed can they be ? I am not saying its right. I feel if a new hobbyist asks a question and they get an honest factual answer they should take it and move on no matter how it was packaged. As I have said before I feel the ends justify the means. Get the answers you need bite your tongue if you have to and move on.
In agreement.
 
saltfan

saltfan

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2959062
You're preaching to the choir on the minimum tank size thing. However take the sailfin tang. There is a Bass Pro that has a tank of sailfin's. And literally their sailfins are 14 inches long and about 12 inches top to bottom (without fins) There is no way that a 135 is big enough for a fish that big. Albeit that is the biggest sailfin's I've EVER seen, but maybe there is a reason for that.
Do tell, do tell. But. 135g is all relative if the dimensions are not givin. Tangs don't care how tall the tank is, its how wide and how long. Oh, and, by the way.....They do take quite some time to develop into that big of a fish, so whats in a size if it takes 2 years to fully develop??? We also don't know down the road if they will be getting a bigger tank.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by SaltFan
http:///forum/post/2960225
Do tell, do tell. But. 135g is all relative if the dimensions are not givin. Tangs don't care how tall the tank is, its how wide and how long. Oh, and, by the way.....They do take quite some time to develop into that big of a fish, so whats in a size if it takes 2 years to fully develop??? We also don't know down the road if they will be getting a bigger tank.
wow, you're bright one there.
 
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