Tank with ich, testing No-Ich

florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
fish can sometimes fight Ich on their own, and repress it down to unnoticeable levels
This brings us to an interesting situation. If the quoted statement is correct and ick is in an undetectable state how do we know its even there. I assume some people will state that they introduced a fish to their DT only to have it become infected by the parasite. That then leads to the question of quarantine of the new fish and how effective that quarantine and treatment was if the fish showed signs of ick
 
novahobbies

novahobbies

Well-Known Member
How does No-ICH work?
No-ICH disrupts the life cycle of the Cryptocaryon irritans parasite during the critical free swimming stage while having no effect on the health of your marine fish, corals, invertebrates, live rock, macro algaes or nitrifying bacterial colonies.
This sounds a lot like kick-ich, which is moderately effective. It too claims to be biodegradeable. I had an outbreak of ich a couple months ago due to rushed qt'ing. I tried the kick-ich as I didn't have a large enough backup tank to remove all my invertebrates....that and just plain curious. Kick-ich works by introducing a mild irritant in the water, like a pepper juice, causing the fish to build up their slime layer to a point where the free-swimming ich larvae can't burrow and attach to the fish....thus "disrupting the life cycle....during the critical free swimming stage" like your product's ad states.
It worked, but not without casualties. The Tang who brought the ich in didn't make it, and a poor innocent mandarin was killed because it built his slime layer up TOO much. But as the product stated, all invertebrates including corals were unaffected.
Lessons learned? QT for the proper amt of time. Have a large enough backup on hand for invertebrates/ and-or all fish just in case sh*t actually happens. Hyposalinity is still the best known ich cure, and so far the one most trusted.
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by outsdr2
http:///forum/post/3044653
Is a UV sterilizer effective in controlling a severe ich breakout?
IMO, no, for a number of reasons including the nature of the parasite, improper flow rate on the UV, etc.
 
florida joe

florida joe

Well-Known Member
Correct usage of a UV sterilizer is predicated on wattage of the lamp and flow rate. Taking in to account turbidity and the target you are trying to eliminate. I would contact the manufacturer of the particular unit you are going to buy and ask them for the best flow rate for your particular situation
 
ophiura

ophiura

Active Member
Originally Posted by florida joe
http:///forum/post/3045572
Correct usage of a UV sterilizer is predicated on wattage of the lamp and flow rate. Taking in to account turbidity and the target you are trying to eliminate. I would contact the manufacturer of the particular unit you are going to buy and ask them for the best flow rate for your particular situation
Yes, agree again :p
Be specific in that you are treating saltwater ick...because treatments for algae, for example, may require a different flow rate. Age of the lamp is also an issue. In general the flow rate is remarkably slow all considering - eg "inline" uses of UVs, such as a return line from a filter, are often far too fast to be effective.
I would never wait on a UV to be a treatment for ick. It is likely the fish would die before the UV would ever be effective, IMO at least.
 
outsdr2

outsdr2

Member
Originally Posted by ophiura
http:///forum/post/3045653
Yes, agree again :p
Be specific in that you are treating saltwater ick...because treatments for algae, for example, may require a different flow rate. Age of the lamp is also an issue. In general the flow rate is remarkably slow all considering - eg "inline" uses of UVs, such as a return line from a filter, are often far too fast to be effective.
I would never wait on a UV to be a treatment for ick. It is likely the fish would die before the UV would ever be effective, IMO at least.
Hi manufactuer says 500 GPH or less. the bulb is a 30w and the tube is about three feet long. It is not for the treatment of Ich I am hoping it will keep other fish contamination to a minimum episode hopefully.
 
lroberts

lroberts

Member
Sorry been slacking on the posts. :)
Well to date the ich is still gone. On Sunday I did a huge water change. Its a 90gal tank with a 30gal sump and I changed 80gals of water. I then also added a bottle of Bio-Spira due to how big the water change was. I then treated the tank with another dose of No-Ich. The fish are looking good and acting 100% normal. I have also continued with the food soaked in garlic.
A product called Garlic Guard to be exact. I am running the skimmer now with the meds in the tank to keep things clean.
By the way I do want to add.... This was cause by me been dumb and not setting up a QT tank.
I have MORE then learned my leason with this. I am setting one up this weekend. I will NEVER release a fish of any kind into my main tank again till it hits the QT tank first.
 
outsdr2

outsdr2

Member
Thanks for the update. do you use a UV sterlizer? I think besides the germicidal effects I believe it increases water quality. which another poster pointed out the benefits of having correct water perimeters. 80% water change seems excessive. is that part of the treatment?. I look forward to further updates.
Jack
 
lroberts

lroberts

Member
No I do not have a UV sterlizer. I did some reading on that and it seems that it does help but still does not take care of it 100% as every one of the little suckers would need to pass through it however it would be good for better control. I did the big water change because my local pet store thought it might be a good move since using meds. (V.I.Pets).
Most meds say to conduct a rather large water change after use however No-Ich did not state this but I went by what the store said. After the water change I did treat the tank again with No-Ich. I am not sure if I said that or not.
Well I guess this will prove I am not a rep for No-Ich...
I noticed this morning that one of my fish has white spots again.

So my next step now at this point is going to be another water change and copper since I have a FOWLR. I wanted to give it a try and it did appear to help however it may have only been the cycle of the bug, the garlic, the meds or all of it. In either case I have used the whole bottle of No-Ich and I still have ich. There are factors to consider such as did I catch it in time and things like that. Who knows and that is the problem with this subject... Too many things to consider.
So now I will submit and go the old school way of copper and see what the results are which I have no doubt will work I just do not like the effects on the tank but I will never take it to reef anyway (too much cost).
 
lroberts

lroberts

Member
Well the copper has been added to the water as of tonight. Skimmer is off and carbon is out. Let the clock start! :)
 
U

usirchchris

Guest
Originally Posted by LRoberts
http:///forum/post/3046589
Well the copper has been added to the water as of tonight. Skimmer is off and carbon is out. Let the clock start! :)

Make sure you get a test kit. If you have sand/rock in the tank it will absorb a considerable amount of copper and will take much more then the manufacturers recommended amount. Also make sure the test kit is compatible with the type of copper you have...chelated, or non-chelated. Final recomendation...keep the copper in for no less than 1 month. 2 weeks is on the bottle I typically use (Cupramine), but copper kills the free swimming ich and they can lie in wait much longer than 2 weeks...up to a month. Good luck
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
If you read the thread I put out on Stop Parasite, which is a ceyenne and garlic remedy, you'll notice similar results. The ****** came back 3 weeks ago and I put all my fish into the 55g QT tank. The garlic and pepper seem to help build up the appetite and stamina of the fish and they can resist the ****** better for a while. Then, like a flash the ****** comes back. I paid $30 for the Stop Parasite and it did stablize the fish and I haven't lost any of my fish, but as I ended the thread on, I was wondering if it was a temporary lull. Unfortunately, I have come to believe QT with hypo or copper is the only reliable way to get rid of ******. Old timers have been there done that, and that is why they are resistant to endorse anything else, but the tried and tested.
 
lroberts

lroberts

Member
I agree. And thank you to everyone for all the advise. I do think that sooner or later somebody will find a solution to this issue that can be used on a complete reef without damage however it is clear to me that No-Ich is not that product.
I am using Cupramine so I guess I did good there. :)
Also I purchased the test kit to go with it however it was bunk!
There was only a tiny bit of powder in the one bottle and the water would not change color for me even though I did exactly what the bottle said to do which was so many drops to gallons. So I put in the recommended amount and I am exchanging the test kit today for a new one. I got the Seachem Copper Test Kit but I really do not like these stupid color fade bars where you have to match the color and give it you're best guess. I was told that the Salifert Copper Test Kit is a much better kit that works with Cupramine, is this correct?
I will goto the store today to exchange at around 4pm.
As soon as I get home I will test and then do the dose to get it where it should be.
My poor fish...

They look like crap! This stuff came right back and has declared war on my fish.
I really hope this does the trick. The store said I just notice a change within 2 days.
I also raised the temp in the tank to 82. They also said I should lower the salt down as well. I don't know if doing all 3 things is such a good idea... I mean they are getting hit with a bit of a higher temp, copper and lower salt.... 1.2.3. punch out!
I would think the copper alone with the temp change will do the trick... Yes no?
Well anyway when I get home today I hope to find the fish a bit more clear...
At least I hope. Also I do plan to run the water this way for about 2 months.
I want to make sure this crap is 100% gone with the wind.
 
outsdr2

outsdr2

Member
Originally Posted by LRoberts
http:///forum/post/3046589
Well the copper has been added to the water as of tonight. Skimmer is off and carbon is out. Let the clock start! :)
as stated before. I am in the very same situation and if you could answer why you chose a copper over hypo? does copper kill your clean up crew? do you unplug your skimmer to disable it? does copper kill anemones? thanks Jack
 
lroberts

lroberts

Member
Originally Posted by outsdr2
http:///forum/post/3046858
as stated before. I am in the very same situation and if you could answer why you chose a copper over hypo? does copper kill your clean up crew? do you unplug your skimmer to disable it? does copper kill anemones? thanks Jack
I selected the copper over hypo for a few reasons. The first major reason is the fact of how long my fish have been getting attacked by this nasty little bug.
If I had a few spots here and there I might have given the hypo a try however at the stage it is at with my fish I felt the best thing to do was call for an all out attack on the bug to be rid of it. With what everyone has been saying and everything I have been reading it seems that this bug is an expert at laying low in you're tank and springing up in a major way when you least expect it to.
Don't get me wrong, I am sure hypo works but I just feel that the copper is about a guaranteed way of making sure this bug dies in my tank and the only way it comes back is through the introduction of another fish that may have it or outside water from another tank.
Copper will and does kill your clean up crew without a doubt. I have a FOWLR system however the LR part is very few. Most of my rock is just base rock that was placed in the tank. As for a cleanup crew I only had 2 sand shifting stars and some hermits which I removed. Also this tank of mine was a reef at one time however the cost of keeping a reef is to high for me so that is why it went to a FOWLR tank and I know I will not be going back to a reef so that is why I decided that dosing my main tank would be fine.
Now if it were any other way... I would goto the store and grab a 30 gallon tank and turn in into a hospital tank and do it that way. But even then I think I would still use copper at this point rather then hypo. Hypo is just not guaranteed enough for me and I want it 100% so I am not stressing watching for little white dots all the time.
The other reason I decided to dose my main tank too is the fact that the fish are hating life as it is right now with this bug all over them, the last thing they are going to want me to do is chase them around my tank with a net to put them in a tank they have never been in. It's just too much stress I think and only takes them closer to death. The same goes for the fresh water dip. That seems to be a 50/50 chance on if it really does anything for them other then causing stress.
This of course is just all my opinion from doing tons of reading.
Yes I unplug my skimmer to disable it. I do not remove it or anything like that.
I did however remove all carbon as this would counter act the copper.
Yes copper would kill anemones.
In fact it seems there is not much copper does not kill other then your fish when used correctly.
Again my tank setup and the plans for the tank fit treating it with copper a good choice at this point. I wanted to give the No-Ich a test run as I said before I do think sooner or later there will be something safe that works well on the market however clearly that day has not come yet. Then again who knows... Maybe if I were to use No-Ich everyday and buy bottle after bottle after bottle it might work over time however my fish will not live that long with this bug and as I said I need and want it gone ASAP and in this day and age it seems you have 2 choices that are 100% effective.
1. Take out all your fish for about 2 months while the tank runs to let the bug die off.
2. Use copper and nuke the little #@%@#
.
Just my 2 cents.
 
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