The Babies Are Here!!!!!

azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
Originally Posted by m0nk
Wow, they are just too cool. Maybe if I can find a pair that was aqua-cultured I'll try some. Sure would be nice to someday see babies like these in this house.

Bangaii Cardinals are very cool to have and they have lots of personality. Some people think they just huver near a rock, but my mated pair are lots of fun to watch. I have to say these little babies are actually developing personalities already. There are some that will stay at the bottom near the plant, others that will venture out to the middle and still others that will go around the tank fearless looking for food. It's been a fun weeknd!

Originally Posted by Keri
wow - those pictures are just too freaking cute! So tiny and so perfect!
Thanks. If I do end up with several that survive I think it will be sad to let them go. But, I can only have one pair in my DT, so they will have to go at some point.
 
N

nereef

Guest
Originally Posted by TriGa22
Ok. Cause Im hopeing to breed my clowns. Its not looking to easy to setup but after that it looks somewhat easy.
from what i've read, clowns are tougher to raise than cardinals. this is because cardinals don't have a plantonic stage. they hatch as fish, not fish larva.
good work, azgirl! do you plan on trading some in for credit at the lfs?
 
kingfish8302

kingfish8302

Member
Way to go AZgirl
.. I need to come by and see these little guys in person. Man they look big for being in his mouth for so long.
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
Originally Posted by NEreef
good work, azgirl! do you plan on trading some in for credit at the lfs?
Not sure, just want to see if I can get them to 4 months old, which is when I believe they will be ready to go to new homes. I already have some local reefers who said they would buy one or two, so I might not have any left for the lfs.
Originally Posted by kingfish8302
Way to go AZgirl .. I need to come by and see these little guys in person. Man they look big for being in his mouth for so long.
Just send me a pm and we can arrange it.
 
kingfish8302

kingfish8302

Member
Sounds good. I'll pm you after the weekend. I graduate this semester and family is coming since i walk this friday
. I'll wait till everyone is gone to see them.
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member

Originally Posted by kingfish8302
Sounds good. I'll pm you after the weekend. I graduate this semester and family is coming since i walk this friday
. I'll wait till everyone is gone to see them.
CONGRATULATIONS!!!
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
This was taken with my Point 'N Shoot camera, so not the best video, but you can still see them moving around.
 
fmarini

fmarini

Member
AZgirl--
great photos. I have to admit even after 10+yrs of staring at banggai babies I still can never get enough. They are so cute and minature adults at that.
I also wanted to correct a misstatement you made earlier in the thread. Banggai cardinals (a pterapogon) makes approx 50-70 eggs. Not 1000. Given that the banggais loose a few during the transfer, and the males will reject a few, expect between 25-45 fry/spawn.
Now other cardinalfish (apogons) like pyjama, orbics, blue eyes, etc, these cardinal species produce 1000's of tiny 0.5mm eggs, the males mouthbrood for 5-10days and release planktonic phase larvae. Banggais & P.Mirifica (pterapogon) have what is called eleutheroembryos (or free-embryos) and complete their development inside the male mouth. At the moment of release, they are already juveniles.
frank
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
Thanks Frank, and you can correct me any time you want. Like I said, I wasn't sure, but I trust you know more than me.
So what about this 10 day thing, seems it's pretty common to lose several fry at that stage. Any reason why? Right now I'm feeding them 5xs a day live baby brine shrimp, vitamin fortified. Tomorrow morning I'm going to try some Cyclopeez. I figure the first feeding would be my best bet, since they go all night without feeding, they will hopefully be hungry enough to eat it. I also do a 10% water change every day, rinsing the sponge filter every other day. Is there anything else I should be doing? Also, about how old are they before they are ready to go to a new home? I've read anywhere between 4-6 months.
Thanks again Frank for poking your head in on this one.
 
fmarini

fmarini

Member
AZ--
the 10 day mark post release does mean an important point. The fry up until this point have been developing on all the nutrients that were stored in their egg yolks, and now rely on you to ensure they are getting proper nutrients.
So even thou you are feeding brine shrimp and their stomachs are full, the food items you give them may not be completely enriched for all required nutrients, and it starts to manifest around the one week mark. The most noted insufficiency is SFS (sudden fright syndrome), and this is due to a lack of HUFAs in the developing frys diet.
Here is a blurb on SFS
SFS, as mentioned its sudden fright syndrome, a common problem caused by insufficient HUFAs in the diet during development.
Frequently I'll read or hear about breeders experiencing a "fainting or heart attack like syndrome", in which the banggers receive a stimuli, such as turning lights on suddenly, or quickly adding large volumes of food to the grow out tank. The fry will freeze and start drifting, motionless to the bottom of the tank. This general phenomenon is considered sudden fright syndrome (SFS). What actually happens is the stimuli essentially short-circuits (shocks) the nervous system and the fish becomes paralyzed. Depending on the severity and frequency of the event(s), it is often lethal. However, what SFS really means is a nutritional insufficiency during development, primarily a lack of highly unsaturated fatty acids during the development of the fry.
Briefly, all animals require certain polyunsaturated fatty acids in their diet, two essential fatty acids were noted as critical during development, Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids, which are an key components of cellular membranes, and are critical in the development of nervous tissue, such as brains, eyes, as well as heart and the innervations to the heart. Omega-6 fatty acids principally originate from animal sources (such as animal fats), while Omega-3 fatty acids are derived from plants. Importantly, Omega-3 fatty acids tend to be lacking in the diet of captive animals, since plant based foods are rarely fed, therefore since fatty acids are not converted from one type to the other, a proper balance of both classes of fatty acids is important to the health and proper development. Important, to a fish breeder are the two Omega-3 HUFAs; are DHA (docosahaxaenoic acid: 22:6 n-3) and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid: 20:5n-3), which are synthesized almost exclusively by marine algae, such as phytoplanktons.
While newly hatched baby brine shrimp (Artemia) are the main stay of first foods for banggers, they lack sufficient quantities of EPA & DHA, and most marine fish fed exclusively on baby brine can begin to die, due to lack of HUFAs. The good news is this situation and resulting SFS is readily corrected, through enrichment of BBS using phytoplanktons (alive or pastes) or if your using dead or prepared foods, then the use of a liquid HUFA suppliment such as Selco, Selcon, Zoecon, etc. Feeding the BBS with phytoplanktons overnight or hours before using them for food is sufficient, and after a week feeding of enriched BBS the fry shouldn't experience SFS.
There is also an article [Vagelli (J World Aquaculture 04)] which specifically describes this problem in a scientific study
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
OK, so what if I add some PhytoPlex to the tank water, will that help? Right now I have been putting a few drops of Vita-Chem in the BBS hachery (after the BBS hatch), is that doing anything to help? Or should I run down to the store and get Zoecon? I was at the lfs and ment to pick some up and forgot.
I tried feeding them Cyclopeez this morning, thinking since they went all night without food they would be hungry enough to eat it. As far as I could see they all turned their noses up at it, so I went ahead and added some BBS (fortified with Vita-Chem). Also, does the Kent PhytoPlex go bad after a while? What is the shelf life with these products?
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm happy I have someone like you to ask.
I really don't know what I am doing but will try whatever I can to keep them alive.
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
I'm happy to report that there have been NO casualties in the past 48 hours!
The big test will be to see how many I have this time next week. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.
 
azfishgal

azfishgal

Active Member
The babies are one week old today (well, from when the father spit them out). No new deaths to report, but I know we are approaching that critical 10 day period. Meaning if they havn't been getting enough nutrition from me with the feedings then this is about when they start dropping like flies. Let's hope I don't lose to many.
Anyway, here are some more pics that I took today and I do have a video I will post, but I need to upload it and that will take a little time. The last picture turned out so good I just had to share it right away!!! (It was a further away picture and I just cropped.)

 
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