the global warming swindle

bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by sciknen
http:///forum/post/2527399
i just looked at ur EB Bang guy-- does nuclear plants put out anything? cept nuclear waste?
im talkin like CO2 and stuff like that
Nuclear waste and a small amount of water vapor. The old plant designs also put out warm water but most of the newer designs don't.
That said, nuclear waste is a pretty big problem.
 
fishygurl

fishygurl

Active Member
Hmm ya we are doing a global warming court case for science class so i found this post doesnt seem to be too old if i looked at the date right?
Anyways i am suprised that i didnt see anyone talk about the earths tilt and orbit and like how it "wobbles" back and forth through out many years, since this is what also helps causes the earth to go into "cycles"
and you guys were talking alot about a troposphere or something can anyone tell me what that is?? and like one of you were saying that co2 is stored up their or something? but there has to be co2 in the atmosphere as well (i think i still dont know what troposphere or w/e is...lol) because of the "breathing" of the earth where during the spring we get less co2 (because plants are absorbing it and becoming greener) and more co2 in the fall(because the plants are not absorbing anymore)
Also how accurate do you think scientists really are at predicting the climate 1000's of years back from looking at air bubbles in glaciers, tree rings, and frozen lake sediments??
Thanks in advance, im just trying to learn a little more
 
mie

mie

Active Member
Watched "expedition alaska" on discovery channel, and it was very informative about global warming. One reason for higher temps is because the sea ice is dissapearing and it reflects like 60% of the suns rays back to space, without the sea ice it is like unpluging the air conditioner.
 
salty blues

salty blues

Active Member
Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/2577429
Watched "expedition alaska" on discovery channel, and it was very informative about global warming. One reason for higher temps is because the sea ice is dissapearing and it reflects like 60% of the suns rays back to space, without the sea ice it is like unpluging the air conditioner.
I thought it is the other way: The sea ice is melting because of global warming. I'm truly confused now. The tree huggers need to get their stories straight. They can't have it both ways.
 
sciknen

sciknen

Member
the guy two posts above got something right tooo
the earth does wobble and tilt on its axis which can cause huge changes like the earth being a big jungle to not anymore,which is what happend a very very long time ago millions of years
the temperatures are rising because the sun is going through a stage of more activity..which then causes CO2 to rise..if you look at the facts close enough you can see this
even in al gores movie you can see this
the temp line goes up and then the co2 line moves(800yrs later on average)
plus temperature has been rising since before we even had industry???
so then you know for a fact it isnt a factor and something else is causing it
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2523706
The light from the Sun passes through the atmosphere and strikes the Earth either on land or water. Some of this light is reflected and escapes back through the atmosphere. The rest of this light is mostly converted to heat which warms the Earth. For the surface of the Earth to maintain a constant temperature it must radiate the same amount of heat that it receives.
Heat is radiated by the Earth in the form of Infrared Radiation. Most of the Atmosphere is Nitrogen, (02) Oxygen, and Argon. These gasses do not absorb infrared radiation so they do not trap heat. Carbon Dioxide, Water Vapor, (03) Ozone, and Methane, absorb infrared radiation and heat up when exposed to the infrared radiation emitted by the Earth. If you have less of these gasses in the atmosphere then the atmosphere cools and the Earth radiates more heat and the surface cools. If there are more of these gasses in the atmosphere then the temperature of the atmosphere will increase.
The thing is for this concept to work you make make an impossible assumption. No other factor that contributes to tempurature changes.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/2577429
Watched "expedition alaska" on discovery channel, and it was very informative about global warming. One reason for higher temps is because the sea ice is dissapearing and it reflects like 60% of the suns rays back to space, without the sea ice it is like unpluging the air conditioner.
Because the sun shines so much on the north and south pole.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2578158
The thing is for this concept to work you make make an impossible assumption. No other factor that contributes to tempurature changes.
Please inform me as to what other factor will prevent CO2 from absorbing infrared radiation.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
From reading the information in the many posts contained in this thread I have come to the grand conclusion that if Al Gore would SHUT UP the world would be a cooler place to live.
 
sciknen

sciknen

Member
i think you could say that about alot of people
i think if bush talked less people would think he was a jackass
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/2578249
From reading the information in the many posts contained in this thread I have come to the grand conclusion that if Al Gore would SHUT UP the world would be a cooler place to live.

There's no valid arguement against your conclusion.
It wouldn't hurt if he stopped flying his private jet as well.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2578204
Please inform me as to what other factor will prevent CO2 from absorbing infrared radiation.
No I'm not saying that CO2 doesn't asbsorb radiation. I'm saying that it isn't the only factor that causes change to the climate. And for the idea that the rise in CO2 is the reason why these scientists, who someone know what the global tempurature is, attribute the raise in global tempurature. They would have to assume the other factors remain unchanged.
Lets take water vapor for example, maybe the pecentage change in water vapor increased 2x as much as last year, that is going to effect the tempurature as well. Change it more than It would have otherwise changed. But to attribute the change in temp to CO2 you have to assume that the percentage change is constant. Which is what that ideology is arguing. And there are thousands of other variables that contribute to the complex climate where we live. There is no way you can isolate CO2 and make a determination that CO2 is why the temperature is "rising".
Mathematically.
.2x+.15y+.3z-.35w= 1 Change in global tempurature.
You can't solve for y unless you know the values to x, z, and w. Unless you assume that x, z, and w are constant then you can go in and solve for y. And that is what the CO2 people assume. And it isn't a leap one can honestly take.
 
bang guy

bang guy

Moderator

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/2578926
No I'm not saying that CO2 doesn't asbsorb radiation. I'm saying that it isn't the only factor that causes change to the climate. And for the idea that the rise in CO2 is the reason why these scientists, who someone know what the global tempurature is, attribute the raise in global tempurature. They would have to assume the other factors remain unchanged.
Lets take water vapor for example, maybe the pecentage change in water vapor increased 2x as much as last year, that is going to effect the tempurature as well. Change it more than It would have otherwise changed. But to attribute the change in temp to CO2 you have to assume that the percentage change is constant. Which is what that ideology is arguing. And there are thousands of other variables that contribute to the complex climate where we live. There is no way you can isolate CO2 and make a determination that CO2 is why the temperature is "rising".
Mathematically.
.2x+.15y+.3z-.35w= 1 Change in global tempurature.
You can't solve for y unless you know the values to x, z, and w. Unless you assume that x, z, and w are constant then you can go in and solve for y. And that is what the CO2 people assume. And it isn't a leap one can honestly take.
If you read the question I was answering - "i would love for someone to show me some facts about how CO2 causes rising temp" you'll see that I was not applying my answer to anything other than "how". I never implied that it was happening nor that it was the only thing happening. I was simply answering "how" it could raise temperatures.
 
bs21

bs21

Member
ok I didn't read through this whole thread and maybe this was mentioned before but I see alot of people using the term global warming the wrong way. And thats probably because media does the same thing. So lets start from the beginning. Without "Global Warming" the suns rays/radiation penetrates the earth's atmposphere and is reflected back into space while some of the radiation is reflected back off the atmosphere back to the landsurface which causes a heating effect. This is why the earth is warm and not covered in ice or extremely hot because not all is absorbed and not all is reflected back out.
So........
With "global Warming" what happens/supposedly happens whichever you choose to believe excess grenhouse gasses that we produce like CO2 from burning of fossile fuels etc.... still allow the suns energy to penetrate the atmosphere but more of the energy that would normally be reflected back to space is trapped and reflected back to earth. Which in turn causes more of a heating effect.
So that is global warming which is a contributing factor to "GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE" along with the urban heat island effect etc etc......(assuming that you are still with me whether or not you believe it) "GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE" is the natural process that fossil records have supposedly shown takes millions of years to happen. The "natural" way is where volcanic eruptions, respiration from life forms etc... release CO2 ito the atmosphere and eventually build to high concentrations where there is a drastic climate change warming event (during the jurassic period) where the oceans have mass dieoff of microfauna which settle to the ocean floor and get buried in silt. Now these organisms being carbon based life forms stop producing CO2 through respiration and also have carbon stored in them, being carbon based, and this is one of the Earth's methods of reducing carbon levels in the atmosphere back to stable levels or low enough levels where plants are able to catch up and remove enough carbon from the atmosphere.
This is why plants make oxygen because they use the carbon to form their solid structure, being carbon based life forms and all.
more to come.........
 
bs21

bs21

Member
So now that the earth is back to a stable climate system and has stored away massive ammounts of carbon in dead life forms at the bottom of the sea and in plants the earth cools causing ice to form again at the poles which before during the bulk of the heating event the oceans here are believed to be warm enough to swim in.
So what happens to all of those dead life forms burried under silt in the ocean bottoms? Well as more and more silt is deposited increasing pressure and with pressure comes heat and over LONG periods of time we get OIL.
SO..... what is global warming and all ofthose other heating effects doing? The idea is that by burning coal oil and other fossil fuels (which is buried under the ground when the earth went through that climate change as a way to store away excess carbon from
CO2), excess methane from landfills, cow crap?, and deforestation (which would cause less plants that would be able to absorb carbon) that we are hastening the natural "GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE" process in turn leading to a faster catostrophic collapse of our climate and in turn the ecosystems around us that the crops and animals we use for food rely on not to mention the mass die off in the ocean do to salinity changes from land based ice and increased water temperature that would include the animals we keep as a hobby.
SO that is the difference between GLOBAL WARMING and GLOBAL CLIMATE CHANGE.......please do not use the two interchangeably.
ALSO as far as oil being a renewable resource.....the way the earth changed during the late jurasic and early cretacious(sp.?) that happened to cause oil to form as the end result does not mean that future events will be controlled the same way or cause the same thing to happen not to mention the millions of years it took.
IF you are interested and I'm not completely sure about this but if you want you can research some more on your own but..... the reason for the mass die off in the ocean was that during this time period the bottom of the ocean was hydrogen sulfide ( I think it was hydrogen if not something else. IT i whatever is at the bottom of Green Lake in new york i think). Anyway so the idea is that when the earth began to heat up and currents shut down or possibly a thermocline thing that caused the hydrogen sulfide to rise up from the bottom of the sea and move higher into the water column killing off sea animals and microfauna etc....
Also because of the hydrogen sulfide being at the bottom of the ocean any dieing animal would not decompose because of no living organism at those depths unlike in todays oceans. So thats why there was so much dead matter building up over time and then the huge dieoff piling on top of that also. So when we burn oil the idea is that we are releasing carbon in the form of CO2 in excess amounts into the atmosphere and plant life that absorbs carbon like natural grasslands, where now our agricultural heartland is, are not able to keep up with the ammount being put out. Now this happened before with the volcanos and such but it took longer becuse no extra sources releasing greenhouse gasses and there wasn't the ammount of deforestation going on so more plants to absorb slowing the process. So that is supposed to be why we are speeding up the whole thing. Some people say at the start of the iundustrial revolution that our CO2 lvl in the atmosphere was only 4 to 5 times that ammount of CO2 away from the last change's lvls.
Sorry about my typing skills and also I have a hard time writing anything lengthy. I tend to repeat myself a couple of times because i get off on tangents. So go ahead and flame away I don't care and I don't necissarily even agree with all of the info i provided but I was just trying to clear things up because until recently I wasn't even sure about the details of why we are being told we should be worrying and the difference between warming and change.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/2579106
If you read the question I was answering - "i would love for someone to show me some facts about how CO2 causes rising temp" you'll see that I was not applying my answer to anything other than "how". I never implied that it was happening nor that it was the only thing happening. I was simply answering "how" it could raise temperatures.
.
Yeah, I understood your post.
 
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