The One Question-Answer Thread

[rlablan]

Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/3184075
I thought that in an artificial enviroment all the little creatures would eventually get eaten or no longer reproduce, just like water changes, in time all the essential elements are used up. I am not talking about show pieces either, maybe some roock to put in the sump .

I read an article that I believe henry posted a while ago about sand bed in our artificial environments.
It comes down to the fact that yes, they will all get eaten or die out, but it takes about an average or 5 or so years. (taking into account what fish you keep, like sand sifters, or fish like mandarins) A very established tank, if left alone (not adding rock or sand) will become depleted of these critters.
The article touched on something called a recharge kit. Some LFS apparently carry them, (none in my area,) but it is a little container of pods and weird crustaceans that are tiny and different worms and all kinda of strange things... stuff we never even knew came in LR and... All good things, of course.
The article also said that if you run a deep sand bed, that these things will need to be replaced over time as well.
Hope that helped. Maybe is henry is here, he can post this article, if he knows what I am talking about....

 

[mie]

Originally Posted by rlablan
http:///forum/post/3184101
I read an article that I believe henry posted a while ago about sand bed in our artificial environments.
It comes down to the fact that yes, they will all get eaten or die out, but it takes about an average or 5 or so years. (taking into account what fish you keep, like sand sifters, or fish like mandarins) A very established tank, if left alone (not adding rock or sand) will become depleted of these critters.
The article touched on something called a recharge kit. Some LFS apparently carry them, (none in my area,) but it is a little container of pods and weird crustaceans that are tiny and different worms and all kinda of strange things... stuff we never even knew came in LR and... All good things, of course.
The article also said that if you run a deep sand bed, that these things will need to be replaced over time as well.
Hope that helped. Maybe is henry is here, he can post this article, if he knows what I am talking about....
I have never heard of a recharge kit. This however is very facinating. I have also heard theory's that not reseeding your tank or recharging it contributes to old tank syndrome crash.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3183793
What biologic processes consume Strontium?
calcification, and the growth of animals like Acantharia ( strontium sulfate spines ) and other life forms as skeletons (such as radiolora)
was that the answer you were looking for bang or did you have another biological process in mind?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/3184131
calcification, and the growth of animals like Acantharia ( strontium sulfate spines ) and other life forms as skeletons (such as radiolora)
was that the answer you were looking for bang or did you have another biological process in mind?
I was just looking for an answer. I didn't know. Any idea how fast it's consumed?

 

[shrimpy brains]

Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/3184017
Should you re seed your tank with a few pounds of "FRESH" live rock lets say once a year?
As far as I understand it, the reason it is called live rock, is merely for the fact that it has beneficial bacteria living on it.
Yes, you can buy it with many other critters on it, but it is the bacteria that makes it considered "live". Thus, you can start a tank with lots of base(dead) rock and "seed" it with a few peices of live rock. The bacteria on the live will spread to the base rock and it all will be live.
Addind rock to a cycled tank is IMO a large risk. You may pick up pest hitchhikers, as Flower stated previously, but you also risk adding rock that will have die off. This die off may exceed the current capacity of your tank to nitrify/denitrify and may cause a spike in ammonia, trites, etc. causing more critters to die, causing a larger spike......on and on.
If your concern is adding depleted critters. Rather than adding live rock, these can be bought at lfs's, on-line, and thru fellow hobbyist, and you can easily raise them seperately and add to tank periodically. Also, adding a refugium helps, as it gives them a protected place to grow and multiply.
Just my 2 cents!

 

[mie]

This was a cool read.
http://www.ronshimek.com/deep_sand_beds.html

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Shrimpy Brains
http:///forum/post/3184170
As far as I understand it, the reason it is called live rock, is merely for the fact that it has beneficial bacteria living on it.
Yes, you can buy it with many other critters on it, but it is the bacteria that makes it considered "live". Thus, you can start a tank with lots of base(dead) rock and "seed" it with a few peices of live rock. The bacteria on the live will spread to the base rock and it all will be live.
Addind rock to a cycled tank is IMO a large risk. You may pick up pest hitchhikers, as Flower stated previously, but you also risk adding rock that will have die off. This die off may exceed the current capacity of your tank to nitrify/denitrify and may cause a spike in ammonia, trites, etc. causing more critters to die, causing a larger spike......on and on.
If your concern is adding depleted critters. Rather than adding live rock, these can be bought at lfs's, on-line, and thru fellow hobbyist, and you can easily raise them seperately and add to tank periodically. Also, adding a refugium helps, as it gives them a protected place to grow and multiply.
Just my 2 cents!
Well it takes more than just bacteria for the rock to be considered live rock (at least by MY standards). Did you know that nitrosomonas and nitrobacter are actually ubiquitous? That means that anything with surface area (that is aquarium safe) and an ammonia source will allow this bacteria to colonize. So what I'm driving at is, you don't need live rock to cycle an aquarium (if your definition of cycling is simply the nitrogen cycle). But what is the cycle? The cycle is more broad and less understood than simply the processes of ammonia fixation (ammonification), nitrification, and denitrification. There are plenty of other organisms and process that need to be considered before you can deem your aquarium cycled. Here is an example of what I'm talking about. Without live rock, you will NOT be able to get coraline algae in your aquarium (assuming you aren't adding chips or other things of that nature). You can add all the purple up in the world but it isn't going to happen. If your aquarium loses all of its coraline algae, there is nothing you can do about it except add another source of coraline algae.
To summarize what I am saying: We don't buy live rock for the bacteria because that bacteria is there all along. Try cycling an aquarium with just base rock, it takes a little longer, but it works just the same. I don't pay 4 bucks a pound for something that speeds up my cycle a little, I pay four bucks a pound for all the microorganisms (this is an awesome word because it looks pretty awkward) that make my tank awesome.
In addition, curing live rock in a bucket with a powerhead for an extended period of time prior to putting it in your tank (or sump) prevents these level swings.

 

[rlablan]

The article did touch on tank crash and said that if you purchase these regularly after the tank gets to that mature, very established point of 5 or so years, then you can avoid having a tank crash due to lack of micro CUC members and beneficial filter feeders.
Again, one thing we have to remember... LR is live, but who knows what comes on what piece? Who knows if were just getting coraline or something more? We can't know because we can't see them. I don't know anyone who looks at their LR under a microscope before they buy it.
These recharge kits, where ever they are found, is always a good idea, IMO, because all life in our artificial environments will hit that plateau stage, and it will steadily decline after that point. Adding these "fresh" critters will help the tank stay new and evolve past the point of whatever we put in there years before when we set up the tank.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3184174
Well it takes more than just bacteria for the rock to be considered live rock (at least by MY standards).
+100
Rock that only has nitrifying bacteria is just wet rock. I need the critters that keep live rock healthy. Same with sand.

 

[mie]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184182
+100
Rock that only has nitrifying bacteria is just wet rock. I need the critters that keep live rock healthy. Same with sand.
So would you agree that adding new live rock lets say yearly or every other year would suffice the reseeding process?

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184153
I was just looking for an answer. I didn't know. Any idea how fast it's consumed?
honestly, no. there are theories about why its used in calcification such as its used to precipitate caclium because it is so similar to calcium that it can cause it to precipitate. the coral or bivalve concentrates it to cause the calcium to precipitate, well thats one theory anyway. some think its just a toxin and the corals place it in their skeleton to remove it from their bodies. similar to shrimp pushing iodine out of their bodies into their exoskeleton to remove it from their system to avoid toxicity.
here is a good read for you bang
from
The Effect of Strontium on Embryonic Calcification
of Aplysia californica
JOSEPH P. BIDWELL’, ALAN KUZIRIAN2, GLENN JONES3,
LLOYD NADEAU4, AND LISA GARLAND”
Howard Hughes Medical Institute, Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution,
Wo0d.y Hole, Mussuchusetts 02543
Strontium is required for the normal embryonic development
of a variety of marine molluscs including gastropods
(Bidwell et al., 1986), bivalves (Gallager et al.,
1989), and cephalopods (Hanlon et al., 1989). Embryos
reared in the absence of strontium lack mineralized
statoliths or shell, yet the soft-tissues appear normal.
There is a critical window for strontium during embryogenesis
of the opisthobranch gastropod Aplysia caljfbrnicu
Cooper, 1863; normal mineralization requires 4 ppm
strontium [-45.7 PM, half the concentration of natural
seawater (Bruland, 1983)], lower concentrations (l-3 ppm)
or exposure to high levels (80 ppm) results in abnormal and
incomplete calcification (Bidwell et al., 1986).
another good read fior you might be
Photosynthesis and Calcification at Cellular, Organismal and Community
Levels in Coral Reefs: A Review on Interactions and Control by Carbonate
Chemistry1
JEAN-PIERRE GATTUSO,2* DENIS ALLEMAND,! AND MICHEL FRANKIGNOULLEJ
both articles are long and have alot of technical science in them I have had them favorited but I havent yet had time to read them in their entirety.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/3184234
So would you agree that adding new live rock lets say yearly or every other year would suffice the reseeding process?
It's difficult to say. It certainly would not hurt. It's a definate yes for sand because the new animals add to the diversity and migrate throughout the sand bed. I'm not sure if the same is true for live rock. Many of the rock infauna drift to the rock as larvae and never leave. These animals wouldn't be migrating to the old rocks if added to the tank. For the animals that easily reproduce they would certainly migrate from the new rock to the old rock and that could increase the rock diversity.

 

[mie]

So new live sand would be more effective than rock and obviously safer with less chance of bad hitchikers?

 

[xcali1985]

Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/3184512
So new live sand would be more effective than rock and obviously safer with less chance of bad hitchikers?
I would think so, after all most of the critters that live on the rock also live in the sand bed. There would obviously be cases where this isn't true but for the most part I would think so.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by mie
http:///forum/post/3184234
So would you agree that adding new live rock lets say yearly or every other year would suffice the reseeding process?
I try to add both new rock and sand on a fairly regular basis to keep my biodiversity up. the risk of adding new rock isnt much different from adding a coral thats attached to a peice of rock (a baby mantis shrimp can easily hide in a chunk of rubble an inch in size). if you QT and cure new rock additions you should be able to intercept various critters like mantis etc. IMO the risk after qting the rock would be negligable. since most dont QT corals before addition the risk is actually signifigantly lower than adding a wild colony of coral.

 

[mie]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
http:///forum/post/3184553
I try to add both new rock and sand on a fairly regular basis to keep my biodiversity up. the risk of adding new rock isnt much different from adding a coral thats attached to a peice of rock (a baby mantis shrimp can easily hide in a chunk of rubble an inch in size). if you QT and cure new rock additions you should be able to intercept various critters like mantis etc. IMO the risk after qting the rock would be negligable. since most dont QT corals before addition the risk is actually signifigantly lower than adding a wild colony of coral.
Thanks. I was kind of thinking that as well.

 

[pezenfuego]

REALLY odd question...odd in the sense that it is nearly irrelevant to saltwater.
The nitrogen cycle exists in freshwater as well (obviously, it even exists in soil)...
So my question pertains to this. Fish, waste, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate (plant fertilizer), plants (food), Fish.
That is a complete cycle (obviously). However, in saltwater, while the cycle may look identical, we have denitrification. Simple question: Does denitrification occur in freshwater/brackish environments?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by PEZenfuego
http:///forum/post/3184838
REALLY odd question...odd in the sense that it is nearly irrelevant to saltwater.
The nitrogen cycle exists in freshwater as well (obviously, it even exists in soil)...
So my question pertains to this. Fish, waste, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate (plant fertilizer), plants (food), Fish.
That is a complete cycle (obviously). However, in saltwater, while the cycle may look identical, we have denitrification. Simple question: Does denitrification occur in freshwater/brackish environments?
Yep.

 

[pezenfuego]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
http:///forum/post/3184842
Yep.
Such a simple, helpful, complete, and appreciated answer

 

[rlablan]

Alright, here is a ? that I want answered...
What EXACTLY (in dumb terms) is phytoplankton. Obviously, it is living... but that is all I know. What is it? and also, Why is it green?
Thanks.