The presidential address 15-June-2010

ironeagle2006

Active Member
I would not say that. Some of the Democraps Elected have shown that they are playing with less than a full deck. John Conyers Nancy Pelosi Harry Reid Henry Waxman Barney Frank Chris Dodd Ted Kennedy Robert Bryd John Murtha and here in IL the Daleys the Madigans the Jones famiily the Strooger Clan the Bladoelvichs and the toppers of them all for dummies in IL would have to be the La Salle County Board was told by the County Clerk 4 years ago that a Computer Program would not work had NEVER been used by ANY GOVERMENT NATIONWIDE yet they gave the Company a Blank CHeck. Well 540K later they finally tore the Contract up AFTER NEVER GETTING THE THING TO WORK.
 

spanko

Active Member
Not sure about Darth and bionic. They have been absent since yesterday afternoon. IDK maybe we are done. Was a good discussion though don't ya think?
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3279378
I would think him purposely seeking out the marxist professors while in college would be a big hint... Spread the wealth around argument... All you have to do is look. No one in their right mind would do the things he has done economically with the intention of enriching our country... That leaves 2 options one he's as smart as a box of rocks, or he's doing it on purpose.
And well no one is that dumb...
Come on, you still using people from his past to justify your arguments? "No one in their right mind would do things he has done economically..." What did Bush do the last two years of his term to "enrich our country economically"? If anything, Obama is following some of the same trends as Carter, and most other Democrats who believed in spending money to try and fix problems. Is every President that was a spendthrift in the past considered a Marxist or Communist in your eyes?
 

spanko

Active Member
I'm sure Stdreb27 will answer you but I will throw in a few myself.
Come on, you still using people from his past to justify your arguments?
I tell my kids constantly you are who you hang with. the presidents consistent choice of people to hang with and more to be taught by and more importantly his verbalizing his beliefs show that he is a progressive - socialist - dare I say communist - in his actions.
What did Bush do the last two years of his term to "enrich our country economically
Absolutely nothing. Lost his roots to conservatism. Could this be a hazard of the job? IDK but he is not in office now, and we have to deal with the current administration.
Is every President that was a spendthrift in the past considered a Marxist or Communist in your eyes
No. Spending money unwisely is just fiscal irresponsibility. Having an agenda to nationalize the economy through government control, redistributing wealth, taxing at exorbitant rates, etc. etc. is at the least socialist if not Marxist or Communist.
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
We are not for sure YET however the Chairman of the IT commitee refused to allow a known program with a lower bid to even be discussed. So we have no clue what went on.
 

bionicarm

Active Member

Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3279458
I'm sure Stdreb27 will answer you but I will throw in a few myself.
I tell my kids constantly you are who you hang with. the presidents consistent choice of people to hang with and more to be taught by and more importantly his verbalizing his beliefs show that he is a progressive - socialist - dare I say communist - in his actions.
If you were to delve into the pasts of every single politician from your local City Council, to everyone in Congress, I guarantee you that they all had some 'shady character' they associated with in the past. There's no way you can control that. A high school classmate of mine is serving life for a multiple murder charge. One of my college roommates is serving 15 years in the Federal Pen for an extortion/money laundering scheme. So does that mean I'll become a murderer or other type of criminal? Doing this "character assassination by association" doesn't fly with me.

Absolutely nothing. Lost his roots to conservatism. Could this be a hazard of the job? IDK but he is not in office now, and we have to deal with the current administration.
I used Bush as an example of how a previous President has destroyed our economy in the same manner as Obama. Bush's fiscal policies during his last two years were the catalyst for the Recession we've been in for the last two years. I imagine if I sat down and researched every President over the last two decades, I could find major flaws with their fiscal policies that either directly or indirectly affect this country's economy that is no worse than what Obama has done so far.

No. Spending money unwisely is just fiscal irresponsibility. Having an agenda to nationalize the economy through government control, redistributing wealth, taxing at exorbitant rates, etc. etc. is at the least socialist if not Marxist or Communist.
Sure spending money unwisely is fiscally irresponsible. But again, I could probably show you examples from the past 5 President's whereby they did something 'fiscally irresponsible' as well. I suppose you're using the bailouts of the banks and automaker's as your example of 'nationalizing the economy through governemtn control'. Well sorry to burst your bubble, but Bush was the one that started the bailout debacle, and the auto bailouts have turned out to be good for both GM and Chrysler. Both of those organizations have already begun paying back their LOANS, as well as many of the bailed out banks. Yes, the government LOANED these banks and automakers the money. There was never any intention of the Federal Government maintaining control over these institutions for the long run. If any of these companies would've filed for bankruptcy, then we as American taxpayers would've been left holding the bag on the defaulted LOANS.
 

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Excuse me GM paid back their LOAN with ANOTHER LOAN. That would be like me paying off a Credit card with ANOTHER ONE WITH A HIGHER LIMIT. THEY HAVE NOT PAID THE US TAXPAYERS BACK ONE CENT.
 

spanko

Active Member
If you were to delve into the pasts of every single politician from your local City Council, to everyone in Congress, I guarantee you that they all had some 'shady character' they associated with in the past. There's no way you can control that. A high school classmate of mine is serving life for a multiple murder charge. One of my college roommates is serving 15 years in the Federal Pen for an extortion/money laundering scheme. So does that mean I'll become a murderer or other type of criminal? Doing this "character assassination by association" doesn't fly with me.
You continue to disregard the actions of the man himself, while siting others actions as a basis for your argument. We are talking about the president, his address to the nation and what I believe is his ineptitude to effectively lead this country, as well as his move towards government control.
I used Bush as an example of how a previous President has destroyed our economy in the same manner as Obama. Bush's fiscal policies during his last two years were the catalyst for the Recession we've been in for the last two years. I imagine if I sat down and researched every President over the last two decades, I could find major flaws with their fiscal policies that either directly or indirectly affect this country's economy that is no worse than what Obama has done so far.
Read the constitution, the president does not authorize spending, the congress does. The congress has been under democratic control since the election in 2007... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010400802.html ... and have controlled the spending since then.
Sure spending money unwisely is fiscally irresponsible. But again, I could probably show you examples from the past 5 President's whereby they did something 'fiscally irresponsible' as well. I suppose you're using the bailouts of the banks and automaker's as your example of 'nationalizing the economy through governemtn control'. Well sorry to burst your bubble, but Bush was the one that started the bailout debacle, and the auto bailouts have turned out to be good for both GM and Chrysler. Both of those organizations have already begun paying back their LOANS, as well as many of the bailed out banks. Yes, the government LOANED these banks and automakers the money. There was never any intention of the Federal Government maintaining control over these institutions for the long run. If any of these companies would've filed for bankruptcy, then we as American taxpayers would've been left holding the bag on the defaulted LOANS.
Again the president does not authorize spending the congress does. They could have stopped the bailouts. As for the bailouts in general IMO they never should have happened. The companies - banks - should have had to rectify their situations themselves and the taxpayer money should not have been used. As for the the government maintaining control, have a read here and tell me this is not control over private companies.
http://www.nytimes-se.com/2009/07/04...sses-congress/
 

reefraff

Active Member
Anita Dunn, Carol Browner and Vann Jones are not shadows from Obama's past, they are people appointed to his administration, two of which have been forced out after either making blatant statements such as Dunn's speech to a high school commencement where she told of Admiring Chairman Moa and Van Jones background founding a Marxist organization being exposed by the true media. One of the most frequent visitors to the White House has been the head of SEIC Andy Stern who is a product of the Democrat Socialists of America's "community organizer" training facility. His labor Secratery Helda Solis was in bed with the Democrat Socialists of America when she was a member of Congress.
But I agree, lets not judge Obama on what he did or who he hung out with years ago, unless of course the leopord hasn't changed it's spots.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006
http:///forum/post/3279466
Excuse me GM paid back their LOAN with ANOTHER LOAN. That would be like me paying off a Credit card with ANOTHER ONE WITH A HIGHER LIMIT. THEY HAVE NOT PAID THE US TAXPAYERS BACK ONE CENT.
Yep, amazing how people like to forget that small factoid.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3279467
You continue to disregard the actions of the man himself, while siting others actions as a basis for your argument. We are talking about the president, his address to the nation and what I believe is his ineptitude to effectively lead this country, as well as his move towards government control.
Read the constitution, the president does not authorize spending, the congress does. The congress has been under democratic control since the election in 2007... http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...010400802.html ... and have controlled the spending since then.
Again the president does not authorize spending the congress does. They could have stopped the bailouts. As for the bailouts in general IMO they never should have happened. The companies - banks - should have had to rectify their situations themselves and the taxpayer money should not have been used. As for the the government maintaining control, have a read here and tell me this is not control over private companies.
http://www.nytimes-se.com/2009/07/04...sses-congress/

So why are you calling Obama the Marxist or Communist if he has nothing to do with this "fiscally irresponsible' spending you're talking about? Obama has done nothing but propose solutions to Congress to figure out a way to get us out of this Recession we're in. If Congress agrees with his proposals, they created the bill, pass it into law, and he either signs it or vetos it. That's the way the process works. If you don't like the way the current process is handled, get rid of the people in Congress. Obama and any other President is nothing more than a glorified figurehead used as a way for the American people to identify the representation of our Federal Government.
Yea, yea, GM found an inventive way to 'repay' part of their debt. However, they are still beholden to repaying that Treasury Bill (or whatever it was they used to pay off one part of their note) back. The point of that bailout was to keep both GM and Chrysler viable until they could find a way to get back onto their own two feet. Conservatives wanted to take the approach of "Let them fail. That's the way Capitalism works." But you're talking about two of the largest and most influential manufacturing industries in American history. If you just "let them fail", you're losing two major competitors in the automotive industry. You think we're "hung by the short hairs" by foreign entities now, let's be completely dependent on foreign auto manufacturers for the main transportation this country uses. Not to mention, your unemployment shoots up another percentage point or two because of thousands of lost jobs. You also might as well kiss the State of Michigan goodbye, since the automotive industry represents a majority of their tax revenues and jobs.
Bank bailouts? That's a toss-up. Sure, there's other banks and insurance companies that could take up the slack of these failed financial institutions. However, if you shut down a worldwide bank like Citicorp or Bank Of America, you're affecting the lives of THOUSANDS of bank customers that have their money, credit loans, and mortgages with those banks. Not to mention the impact it would've had on Wall Street and the Stock Market.
 

spanko

Active Member
So why are you calling Obama the Marxist or Communist if he has nothing to do with this "fiscally irresponsible' spending you're talking about? Obama has done nothing but propose solutions to Congress to figure out a way to get us out of this Recession we're in. If Congress agrees with his proposals, they created the bill, pass it into law, and he either signs it or vetos it. That's the way the process works. If you don't like the way the current process is handled, get rid of the people in Congress. Obama and any other President is nothing more than a glorified figurehead used as a way for the American people to identify the representation of our Federal Government.
Because he is. His ideals, the direction he wants to take the country in, his speech, his actions all lead me to this conclusion. As for the congress, it is a congress of progressives that control it, they agree with him and will vote with him. Do you think for a minute if it were republican controlled he would be getting the things he is? Have you seen how divided along party lines the voting has been. Come on man, look at the detail. And you are correct sir, if I don't like the current government vote them out, and I will do my part to do so.
As for letting them fail, again be reasonable, they would have gone into and come out of bankruptcy. Just like any other company. As for the banks we can get into what was the catalyst that got them where they are today. Here is a history lesson for you on Mr. Barney Franks stand on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac;
"In 2002, shortly before accounting irregularities were exposed at both companies, Frank said, “I do not regard Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as problems,” The Wall Street Journal reported. After the Freddie Mac accounting scandal in 2003, Frank said, “I do not think we are facing any kind of a crisis.”"
In fact, Frank & Co. made matters worse by pushing Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to take on greater risk. They wanted more loans to people who might not qualify for traditional bank financing. And, as The Wall Street Journal has pointed out, Frank “pressured regulators to ease up on their capital requirements — which now means taxpayers will have to make up that capital shortfall.”
"These companies were forced to loan money to people who couldn’t afford it in the interest of “being fair.” Rules were relaxed and money was loaned and predictably low income families defaulted on loans that they never had any business getting in the first place and now you and I have to pay for it.
Another liberal policy and another liberal failure. And now we must all pay for it. But hell, they meant well."
And as for kissing the state of Michigan goodbye, I live here sir. We have already failed. The jobs in the automotive industry were going down south and off shore long before any bailouts happened. Why you ask. I charge the unions with this. Their incessant need to increase workers pay and benefits are what drove costs up and drove the companies away from Michigan along with the high tax rates imposed here. Just look at the unions agreements now to decrease wages and to decrease benefits now that the wheel has hit the pavement. It is another example of don't do the right thing until all ---- hits the fan. If they would have started long ago to worry about the ability of the companies to compete globally they may have, I say may have, been able to avoid a lot of this. There is an old saying, the shoot pigs and they slaughter hogs. The unions have been hogs for far too long and are now starting to their just rewards. Do some research, look up how many millions of dollars the NJEA have spent to thwart a sitting governor, Chris Christie, on the passage of his budget plan.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
You won't get any argument from me regarding unions. Those are the most corrupt instutions in the world. Why do you think they never found Hoffa's body? Unions served their purpose back in the days when major manufacturing companies were paying slave wages and making people work in unsafe and unhealthy environments. With current Federal regualtions and other 'watchdog' instituitions out there, unions no longer serve their intended purpose. If I had a job that forced me to join a union, I'd looks elsewhere, regardless of the potential benefits. In the long run, you either end up on some neverending strike, getting a small pittance and handout from your union rep to try and survive on, or you lose your job anyways because your company isn't going to bend to the union's strong-arm tactics.
That's one of the caveats of our Democratic system. When you have all three branches of our government under the control of one political party, you're always asking for nothing but trouble. Any agenda by one or more individuals can be pushed through with little or no problems when you have a 'One Party Rule'. Is that a form of Communism or Dictatorship? Maybe so. But as you stated, we as American voters made the decisions to put these people in office at the same time. If you want that 'balance of power', you need to even out the field. But I think it's a misdirection of anger or frustration when you try putting all the blame on Obama. He came into that job as an inexperienced 'rookie Senator', with many dreams and visions. Once he got the power, he was like a 'kid in a candy store', and knew he could get his dreams pushed to reality because he had the Congressional backing he needed to do it. Do I agree with everything he's implemented? Of course not. I don't trust anything any politician does completely. But I'm also not going to label him a Marxist/Communist/Socialist simply because I don't agree with everything he tries to push through.
 

spanko

Active Member
Ah we do agree on many ideas then. Good stuff. On the unions can you believe the card check thing. Just get a majority of employees in a bargaining unit sign authorization forms, or "cards," stating they wish to be represented by the union and boom it is in. My stance is if you want that it should work the other way around to, a majority of employees sign a card and the union is out.
Agree too with the idea that the checks and balances are thrown out the window when all three branches are controlled by one party, I don't care if it is democrats, republican, libertarian, or hobbits. It won't work.
My label of Mr. Obama is strictly my opinion as I stated back in post #9. A man is who he is by his actions, and the actions of this man lead me to believe he is a Marxist/Communist/Socialist or some form thereof.
 

darthtang aw

Active Member
Originally Posted by spanko
http:///forum/post/3279502
My label of Mr. Obama is strictly my opinion as I stated back in post #9. A man is who he is by his actions, and the actions of this man lead me to believe he is a Marxist/Communist/Socialist or some form thereof.
Didn't get back to this as we went to the dreamtheater/Iron Maiden show last night.
I will not deny Obama has strong left leanings/ psuedo Marxist views...full blown marxist I qam not completely sure yet...but there is no doubt he has marxist tendancies. Where I disagree is the comment that he is Evil and would gladly sacrifice U.S. lives if it would further his marxcist agenda. I have seen nothing to support this....I would conceed he purposely dragged his feet with the BP oil spill as the longer it goes on, the more harm to the environment there will be, which inturn opens more people up to the idea of "cap and trade" and "green" fuel sources that are right now inefficient.
 

reefraff

Active Member
I just see many of the Democrat party's policies moving closer and closer to socialism/marxism/communism, call it what you want.
I remember having a conversation with my cousin's uncle. He was a committee man with the Texas Democrat party. I couldn't believe this guy wasn't a Republican compared to what we had in California for Democrats at the time. When I moved to Montana it was a real awakening experience. I got heavily involved in local politics and watched the old guard Democrats try to fight off the New Party Democrats. There was a huge difference between the two and what I see at the national level in the Democrat party, especially at the top is they are controlled by the New Party types. Bill Clinton came out of Democrat Leadership Council which pushed a centrist agenda. That group has pretty much faded into obscurity.
 
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