The Top 40.................

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40/120#post_3490487
Sorry, I don't need "morality police" determining what is moral or immoral.
Was it ethical to run up $5 trillion in 8 years like Bush?
The only reason Solyndra is "unethical" in your mind is because they failed as a business. Would you say the same thing if they suceeded beyond expectations? I never delved into whatever happened to that organization, and why the did what they did. When you're trying to be successful in a brand new "controversial" market, things like that happen. You have all the disbelievers that solar power is a waste of money, that there's no profit in it. Unless you can find a company like Solyndra that has the balls to at least advance that technology, it never will have a chance to grow.
You're telling me the Olympic tax exemption wasn't a bipartisan affair?
Solyndra is an issue because,
One of 0bama's major contributors was a major investor
The Bush administration had already determined it was a bad bet yet within weeks of taking office 0bama was pushing for the loan to be approved
Once the company had gone over the edge and was headed for bankruptcy the 0bama administration inexplicably changed the terms of the loan so investors would be paid back first, before taxpayers which is something not normally done even if the company doesn't appear to be headed for bankruptcy.
Yeah, nothing there to be concerned about

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392751/the-top-40/120#post_3490457
How do you know?
That's the problem. No one does know, and there's really no way of finding out, That's the beauty of investing in these types of funds and locations. Romney's worth what, $245 million? You think the government knows where every single dime of that is located? I could have a million stuffed in my mattress, pull it out, take it to the Caymans and stick it in one of these tax free investments, and the government wouldn't have a clue that I have it down there. Cayman government doesn't care. They won't tax my profits, and aren't obligated to tell anyone how many profits or losses I made on my million dollars.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/120#post_3490496
If you don't need morality police to determine what is moral...then why are your panties all wedged up over a legal tax action? Abortion is currently legal....yet you supportthat because it is legal, regardless of morality involved with the issue. Once again. you pick and chose which morals you chose to fllow as they suit your desired argument and agenda. if his legal tax evasion is a moral issue....aren't you the same person that wants government out of moral decisions?
No, the solyndra deal was unethical regardless if they had succeeded or failed. Read the reasons why they got the money and how. Obviously it isn't viable, otherwise it wouldn't have to be funded by the government and the consumer wouldn't be offerred huge tax breaks and a return on their solar purchase if it was viable. I live in the friggin desert. I have sun more than most in this country. yet, the industry that makes and sells this technology, is the highest paying consumer of electricity when compared to other manufacturers. One would think a solar panel company would be able to produce their own power....Irony?
Bush never claimed he would reduce the deficit in his terms. Obama claimed he would cut it in half his first term....woops, really screwed that one up. Maybe he meant increase it by half?
Lets try this a different way. What has Obama done for this country in four years.
When one is complaining about people paying their fair share and wanting to raise taxes...then turn around and make select people tax exempt....i call that unethical hypocrisy.
When did Obama say he'd cut the deficit in half his first term? His original plan was over 10 years, and even then it wasn't going to get cut in half.
What has he done? He developed a viable health care plan that will allow 45+ million individuals who currently can't afford healthcare have alternatives to do so. The same healthcare plan allows dependents stay on their parents insurance until they're 26, and doesn't allow insurance providers to deny anyone due to pre-existing conditions. He pulled GM and Chrysler out of definite failure, and whether you believe they're doing good now or not, it saved hundreds of thousands of jobs, kept several municipalities from going bankrupt, as well as keeping busineses and the real estate market viable in the cities where manufacturing plants reside. He got Bin Laden, pretty much helped get rid of Ghadafi, and if he holds up his plan, will have us completely out of Iraq and Afghaniustan by next year. Anything else he's tried to pass has been stymied due to a stubborn Republican-led House that's only goal the last 2 years is making Obama a one-term President. Without compromise between the House and Senate, it won't matter who you have in the White House. If Romeny gets elected, and the Republicans don't win back the Senate, he'll be as useless as you claim Obama has been the last four years.
What "select people are tax exempt"?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/120#post_3490497
failed economic policy? After four years?
yet you give this President a pass using the same criteria? Really? Hypocrisy at its finest. Double the employment rate than under bush's first four years, still in two wars....A floundering economy with no significant positive growth in the last year? But Obama is your guy....I get it. He doesn't have to atleast match the first four years of Bush.
You heard nothing about his cayman connections because his running opponent didn't need to drudge up an issue that holds no bearing on the state of the country. Kerry's opponent (Bush) ran on his record ....Unlike Obama....
When you start an Administration with an economy that's in a major recession, what do you expect? You live with this "I want it now" mentality. Do you honestly think McCain could've done any better with the crap he would've ben handed from Bush? As I said, Obama has had a plan from the get-go to get out of the Middle East. The Republican War Mongers keep playing the "we need our presense in that region to quell the threat of terrorism". Our presense won't do squat to keep something from happening again. Romney is one of the most wealthiest Presidential candidates that has ever run for that office. The country has been divided over the last several years with this class warfare, and the gap between the poor and wealthy has grown larger and larger every year. So of course Romney's wealth will be scrutinized, because he claims to be for the working/middle class, yet he can't relate to those individuals because he's never been in their position.

 

[darthtang aw]

When did Obama say he'd cut the deficit in half his first term?  His original plan was over 10 years, and even then it wasn't going to get cut in half.
February 23 2009 a little over one month in office he made this promise. And it was before the stimulus. He promised to cut the deficit he inherited. Has he done this? The speech was about unsustainable deficits.

 

[darthtang aw]

That's the problem.  No one does know, and there's really no way of finding out,  That's the beauty of investing in these types of funds and locations.  Romney's worth what, $245 million?  You think the government knows where every single dime of that is located?  I could have a million stuffed in my mattress, pull it out, take it to the Caymans and stick it in one of these tax free investments, and the government wouldn't have a clue that I have it down there.  Cayman government doesn't care.  They won't tax my profits, and aren't obligated to tell anyone how many profits or losses I made on my million dollars.
Yet you have no problem voting for Kerry. Kerry is still the richest man in the senate. You voted for him caman accounts and all. And would do it again in 2004 even if you knew that then. That is a tall glass of hypocrisy you are swallowing still.

 

[darthtang aw]

When you start an Administration with an economy that's in a major recession, what do you expect?  You live with this "I want it now" mentality. Do you honestly think McCain could've done any better with the crap he would've ben handed from Bush?  As I said, Obama has had a plan from the get-go to get out of the Middle East.  The Republican War Mongers keep playing the "we need our presense in that region to quell the threat of terrorism".  Our presense won't do squat to keep something from happening again.  Romney is one of the most wealthiest Presidential candidates that has ever run for that office.  The country has been divided over the last several years with this class warfare, and the gap between the poor and wealthy has grown larger and larger every year.  So of course Romney's wealth will be scrutinized, because he claims to be for the working/middle class, yet he can't relate to those individuals because he's never been in their position. 
You brag about Obama removing Ghadafi yet chastise the previous administration for similar action. Since we have had a military precence in the middle east has there been a successful terrorist attack against U.S. citizens civilians? How can you sAy it has made no difference. If we had no mid east precence would we have received the intel and been able to get ossama? You can possibly argue cost for our precence in the middle east, but to say it makes no difference is naive and foolish.

 

[mantisman51]

Secondly, Bush inherited the dotcom recession AND the insane Slick Willy "peace dividend" budget cuts that had gutted our Army, Navy and Marines to be incapable of our post WWII goal of maintaining a force large enough to fight a 2 front war. Obama and the democrats said Bush and the Republicans had drove up the debt and deficit and were right. So their solution was to spend a bunch more and increase the debt and deficit. So, enough excuses. Obama said if he hadn't turned the economy around in 3 years, and he had a super majority his first 2 years, he shouldn't be reelected. Well, he failed. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and take him at his word and get his sorry butt back to a community center in South Chicago.

 

[darthtang aw]

  Romney is one of the most wealthiest Presidential candidates that has ever run for that office.  The country has been divided over the last several years with this class warfare, and the gap between the poor and wealthy has grown larger and larger every year.  So of course Romney's wealth will be scrutinized, because he claims to be for the working/middle class, yet he can't relate to those individuals because he's never been in their position. 
Of course the gap widens...if I invest 3 million and get a 3% return and you only invest 1000 and get a 3% return how big is the divide going to grow? especially since the 1970's there was a major shift to a global economy. allowing those with the means to make money in other economies. Now tell me..what possible government policy can correct this? Use logic for once instead of emotion. Delve deep into your testosterone instead of the rampant estrogen coursing in your veins. Then ask yourself what Obama has done to correct this huge "issue".
And stop blaming the repub lican congress. Clinton worked with a republican congress and got things done. Reagan worked with a Democrat congress and got things passed...hell even bush was able to work with the democrats in his last to years.....but then again, maybe if he hadn't we might not have this recession. Blaming congress for obama's failure to lead and get things done is an excuse. Past Presidents had the same issue and got it done.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490563
Yet you have no problem voting for Kerry. Kerry is still the richest man in the senate. You voted for him caman accounts and all. And would do it again in 2004 even if you knew that then. That is a tall glass of hypocrisy you are swallowing still.
I voted for him the same reason you voted for McCain in 2008. I didn't like Bush's policies, and he was a train wreck for this nation (which he proved). Kerry was the only viable option to vote for, with the exception of not voting at all.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490565
You brag about Obama removing Ghadafi yet chastise the previous administration for similar action. Since we have had a military precence in the middle east has there been a successful terrorist attack against U.S. citizens civilians? How can you sAy it has made no difference. If we had no mid east precence would we have received the intel and been able to get ossama? You can possibly argue cost for our precence in the middle east, but to say it makes no difference is naive and foolish.
Please. How many failed attempts have been made directly on US soil since we started that trumped-up war? Just because they weren't successful doesn't mean they didn't try. Most of those foiled attempts are credited to Homeland Security, not our troops fighting "ghosts" in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are no safer today against terroristics threats than we were before 9/11. If you honestly believe we are, you're doing nothing more than drinking the Bush Kool-Aide. Bush went after Hussein as a vendetta for his failed attempt trying to assisinate his Daddy. Plain and simple.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490569
Of course the gap widens...if I invest 3 million and get a 3% return and you only invest 1000 and get a 3% return how big is the divide going to grow? especially since the 1970's there was a major shift to a global economy. allowing those with the means to make money in other economies. Now tell me..what possible government policy can correct this? Use logic for once instead of emotion. Delve deep into your testosterone instead of the rampant estrogen coursing in your veins. Then ask yourself what Obama has done to correct this huge "issue".
And stop blaming the repub lican congress. Clinton worked with a republican congress and got things done. Reagan worked with a Democrat congress and got things passed...hell even bush was able to work with the democrats in his last to years.....but then again, maybe if he hadn't we might not have this recession. Blaming congress for obama's failure to lead and get things done is an excuse. Past Presidents had the same issue and got it done.
Past Presidents didn't have to deal with radical oppositions like Boehner and McConnell, and this new wave of Independents called the Tea Party that have fractured the Republican Party itself. Did Clinton or Bush have to deal with a House that blatently stated that their entire mission over the second half of their first terms would be to do nothing else but find ways to make sure they didn't get elected to a second term?

 

[darthtang aw]

Past Presidents didn't have to deal with radical oppositions like Boehner and McConnell, and this new wave of Independents called the Tea Party that have fractured the Republican Party itself.  Did Clinton or Bush have to deal with a House that blatently stated that their entire mission over the second half of their first terms would be to do nothing else but find ways to make sure they didn't get elected to a second term?
Newt Gingrich and an impeachment...................Really? Clinton dealt with it and got things done.
.
Interesting, no comment or rebuttal about the widening gap? Most likely because it is not truly an issue that can be "corrected".

 

[darthtang aw]

I voted for him the same reason you voted for McCain in 2008.  I didn't like Bush's policies, and he was a train wreck for this nation (which he proved).  Kerry was the only viable option to vote for, with the exception of not voting at all.
i didn't vote for mcCain. His policies left me lacking as well. You had another option,nader,who was arguing against the war, unlike kerry who stated we needed to stay in the Middle East.
If Bush was a Train wreck, obama didn't bother cleaning up the wreck, he has blew up the track.

 

[darthtang aw]

Please.  How many failed attempts have been made directly on US soil since we started that trumped-up war?  Just because they weren't successful doesn't mean they didn't try.  Most of those foiled attempts are credited to Homeland Security, not our troops fighting "ghosts" in Iraq and Afghanistan.  We are no safer today against terroristics threats than we were before 9/11.  If you honestly believe we are, you're doing nothing more than drinking the Bush Kool-Aide.  Bush went after Hussein as a vendetta for his failed attempt trying to assisinate his Daddy.  Plain and simple.
failed attempts. yes they tried. of course they tried. How many of those attempts were caught by homeland security based off intel gathered in the middle east? How many cells and training camps have been destroyed in the middle east? If you don't believe our military in in the middle east hasn't contributed to the intel gathering, then you are naive.
if Hussein was wrong to remove...so was Khadaffi.....plain and simple.
if we are no safer, do away with homeland security and every pieceof legislation in the patriot act. Do away with drone surveilance, etc.Is this what you are truly stating?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490584
failed attempts. yes they tried. of course they tried. How many of those attempts were caught by homeland security based off intel gathered in the middle east? How many cells and training camps have been destroyed in the middle east? If you don't believe our military in in the middle east hasn't contributed to the intel gathering, then you are naive.
if Hussein was wrong to remove...so was Khadaffi.....plain and simple.
if we are no safer, do away with homeland security and every pieceof legislation in the patriot act. Do away with drone surveilance, etc.Is this what you are truly stating?
We didn't need to lose thousands of American and civilian lives, and spend over a trillion dollars on a war to gain "intel" about Al Qaeda and whatever the five or more other Muslim terrorist factions that have a target on our backs.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490582
Newt Gingrich and an impeachment...................Really? Clinton dealt with it and got things done.
.
Interesting, no comment or rebuttal about the widening gap? Most likely because it is not truly an issue that can be "corrected".
Tell that to the thousands of Occupy Wall Street and other "disfranchised" Americans who disagree with your oponion.

 

[darthtang aw]

Tell that to the thousands of Occupy Wall Street and other "disfranchised" Americans who disagree with your oponion.
Oh, the people that want everything for free? The same people that took over parks and trashed them, using them as public bathrooms and not having a care about their community that they were defecating in or their neghbor they were harming by siome of their actions? Those people? What can I say, some people are ignorant and operate off emotion instead of logic which turns them into moronic buffoons.
regardless what they "think" it does nothing to make my statement any less true, and you know that. Otherwise you would have refuted it with your own opinion and facts, instead of pointing at an activist group and saying "tell them that".

 

[darthtang aw]

We didn't need to lose thousands of American and civilian lives, and spend over a trillion dollars on a war to gain "intel" about Al Qaeda and whatever the five or more other Muslim terrorist factions that have a target on our backs.
Finally, a solid argument instead of a baseless argument. Is it the money or the lives which is more important?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40/140#post_3490536
That's the problem. No one does know, and there's really no way of finding out, That's the beauty of investing in these types of funds and locations. Romney's worth what, $245 million? You think the government knows where every single dime of that is located? I could have a million stuffed in my mattress, pull it out, take it to the Caymans and stick it in one of these tax free investments, and the government wouldn't have a clue that I have it down there. Cayman government doesn't care. They won't tax my profits, and aren't obligated to tell anyone how many profits or losses I made on my million dollars.
So why would he risk declaring any investments there if some are hidden there? Seems pretty foolish. Fact is we know a lot more about Romney's finances and taxes than we do 0bama's early adult life and college years