The Top 40.................

bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489619
Ever try to find a doc that accepts medicare? I didn't think so. Even before 0bama's raid on the fund it was hard. Now doctors are going to refuse to accept any new medicare patients, that is a sure bet. If it cost you 75.00 to provide a service and you were only going to be paid 55.00 what would you do?
I'm not on Medicare, so I couldn't tell you. A doctor that has to charge $75 just for a simple office visit to survive aparently doesn't know how to run a business. My INternal Medicine doc has a very nice office in one of the nicer areas of San Antonio. His office even has it's own internal lab to perform blood work and urinalysis draws so that I don't have to go to another location to get it done. The difference is he shares office space with six other doctors. His normal office visit rate for someone with no insurance is $60. Lab work goes for around $125. He serves many elderly patients who I assume are on Medicare.
Everyone on the Right claims Medicare is broke and it needs to be dismantled, EXCEPT for those that are already on it. Now they want to hand me some voucher, and expect me to believe these same doctors you claim won't accept new Medicare patients, will happily accept me. Again, how are these voucher's being paid for?
 
bubblegurl

bubblegurl

Member
Fair enough Darth, there some extremely important issues your country is dealing with, most of my family lives in the US and I know what they are up against with health care problems. Educating the public is critical to support whatever changes are deemed necessary. We had a premier that ran this province who cut back services, taxed the people and got it out of debt, the only province in this country that was debt free, until his predecessor wracked it right back up in less than 5 years. It was painful, oh my, I had to pay more school fees, bussing fees for my kids, more money off my cheques, but it worked and slowly the money came back to us. This was the richest province in the country and it has become a joke, in my opinion anyway. Don't get me wrong we were not hit nearly as bad as the rest of the world with the recession, it impacted us, but we bounced out of it within months.
I'm just saying there is more that can been done than just sitting here. Most people wait for someone else to step up, do the work, see what happens and then whine about the fallout.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489625
How many views do these threads get? People that don't post in them read them. And it just might make them think "I never looked at it that way" or "that is some good information."
Discussing over the net does reach people. The last election, there were several that came here and rallied and debated for obama...after the election, they disappeared.....you don't think their points discussed on this forum, assisted getting Obama elected?
Please. You make it sound like this little-known forum is the next Facebook. Trust me, nothing ever stated on this forum influences my political decisions as to who I think can do the best job for this country. There's this little forum in my local newspaper that allows individuals to voice their opinions on any of the issues discussed in the paper. There's this sect of about 8 Octogenarians that have taken over the forum, and if you listen to them, the end of the world will occur if Obama is re-elected. They live off of conspiracy theories, and follow the addage, "If someone tells you something enough times, you'll begin to believe it." They take your little Top 40 as gospel, and even if you show them viable proof that what they claim is false, they go into this denial phase and begin tossing insults and accusations. It's like talking to a brick wall. Their minds were made up four years ago. I could take a wild guess and say you are in the same boat as them. Nothing anyone could say to you would change your mind.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
Please.  You make it sound like this little-known forum is the next Facebook. In what way did I imply this? You take one point and always take it to the extreme. And you have the balls to say this about me? Whatever.
Trust me, nothing ever stated on this forum influences my political decisions as to who I think can do the best job for this country
I could take a wild guess and say you are in the same boat as them. Nothing anyone could say to you would change your mind.
Because your liberal mind will never allow you to accept a republican or conservative might have a decent idea. You have your mind made up walking into any discussion. And you call me closeminded? I have changed my position based on arguments and debates made here. Who is close minded?
The 40 list, you counter acted a few, still leaves many more you claim to be able to counter argue. Some of your stated counter arguments were a stretch. But how do you counter the one's coming from Obamas own mouth?
 
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Actually, no it wouldn't have. $179/2 weeks for premiums. With deductibles and co-pays, we would have paid about $18k of it anyways, not to mention the years of premiums. The health insurance offered by service companies(American Express call center in my case) is almost worthless. The minimum insurance offered in Obamacare will be about the same. We will be better off to pay the $950 a year "tax" and hope even more that we don't get sick or injured seriously. And the rates are going to be much higher by 2014. This steaming pile doesn't solve anything. It just gives the leeches even more perks for not working, while those of us who support ourselves are punished even more.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489631
I'm not on Medicare, so I couldn't tell you. A doctor that has to charge $75 just for a simple office visit to survive aparently doesn't know how to run a business. My INternal Medicine doc has a very nice office in one of the nicer areas of San Antonio. His office even has it's own internal lab to perform blood work and urinalysis draws so that I don't have to go to another location to get it done. The difference is he shares office space with six other doctors. His normal office visit rate for someone with no insurance is $60. Lab work goes for around $125. He serves many elderly patients who I assume are on Medicare.
Everyone on the Right claims Medicare is broke and it needs to be dismantled, EXCEPT for those that are already on it. Now they want to hand me some voucher, and expect me to believe these same doctors you claim won't accept new Medicare patients, will happily accept me. Again, how are these voucher's being paid for?
The point is if the doc isn't paid enough to make a profit he isn't going to provide the services. I am in an unusual situation. I am on Medicare and Worker's comp. Last time I ordered crutches the supplier had to bargain with the Workers comp insurance. Workers Comp pays Medicare rates PLUS 15%. At that rate harringtons would have lost money on the crutches.
Contrary to what you might hear Medicare doesn't overpay docs for services. Cutting that even further is going to for all but the most efficient operations out of the market. So who get's screwed in the end? The patient.
Also the voucher system is intended to be for a closed market where insurers are capped at a certain rate in order to qualify to be in the program.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489628
So I guess you want our Federal Government to dictate how many kids a person is allowed to have? Sounds like Communist China to me. Nothing like a little stereotyping to make your day.
No, just make them work for what they are given. Let them take on the 2nd job even if it's picking up trash and dog poop in the park.
 
sweat90lx

sweat90lx

Member
Flower I understand what you are saying. Im not saying to eliminate all government assistance. People need help with the ridiculous prices of healthcare but I dont think the government can manage to handle something this costly without extreme amounts of waste. I also think it will cost you and me more when it goes through.
Bubblegurl I would like to do more but not sure how other than to voice my opinion and try to educate myself and others. This forum like every other I am on has a wide variety of people from different areas and backgrounds. I am a simple person and lived my entire life in the deep south so my views and ideas are usually different. When the recession hit it had a huge impact on my life.
I see it as the more government we have the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer and there will be no middle class. Either you have money or you depend on the government.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40#post_3489629
Why would they have to dictate how many kids they are allowed to have?
Reef's the one complaining about people having kids before they can afford them. I'm assuming he's talking about these individuals who supposedly pop out kids just to collect welfare checks. You think China restricts people as to how many kids they can have simply due to concerns of over-population? It's also a financial burden on their country. Ergo, they dictate how many children a family can have (at least they di at one time). So do the Feds start dictating to anyone who collects welfare that they can only have a set amount, regardless of how many mouths they have to feed?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489636
In what way did I imply this? You take one point and always take it to the extreme. And you have the balls to say this about me? Whatever.
Because your liberal mind will never allow you to accept a republican or conservative might have a decent idea. You have your mind made up walking into any discussion. And you call me closeminded? I have changed my position based on arguments and debates made here. Who is close minded?
The 40 list, you counter acted a few, still leaves many more you claim to be able to counter argue. Some of your stated counter arguments were a stretch. But how do you counter the one's coming from Obamas own mouth?
You're the one who said, "you don't think their points discussed on this forum, assisted getting Obama elected?" You countered this by the number of "hits" this forum receives, regardless if someone responds to a comment or not. Sounded to me like you think there's all these people who hit this forum, and they were some swing vote for Obama in 2008.
I voted for Bush in 2000.
I wasn't going to waste my time refuting all 40 of those exaggerated excuses to hate Obama. I showed why a few were for the most part factually incorrect. My logic is, if those statements were flawed, the rest of them had no merit. However, I will be the first to agree that there are several of Obama's policies that are flawed, and the result didn't turn out as expected (i.e Solyndra). However, Conservatives and Republicans believe Obama is supposed to be this perfectionist, and every policy or law that he implements is supposed to work flawlessly. Anyone knows that the Federal Government is an imperfect system. I don't care whose running the show. Republicans keep trying to push the multitude of Bush's failures under the rug, and play the deflection game of "Well the Democrats ran Congress, blah, blah, blah." So the Republicans have held the House for two years, absolutely nothing has been done, and they still deflect "Well the Senate has been controlled by the Democrats..." The Republicans always use the "Democrats Blame Game" for their own failed policies. They don't have the balls to ever admit that they're wrong. To them it's "My way or the highway". I can't count the number of times on one hand where Boehner has ever tried to compromise with Obama on any major policy. Their arrogance and pompous attitudes are one of the reasons I have such disdain for that party.
Unless the Republicans can get both Romney elected and win back the Senate, Romney will be nothing more than a lame duck President. None of his radical policies will ever get past the Senate. If both do happen, then we'll finally have the opportunity for them to either "put up or shut up". Unfortunately, the only thing that will happen is Romney will reverse eveything Obama has done (which will waste the first two years), then he'll essentially push the same agenda's that Bush stuffed down our throats the last two years of his presidency. The rich will continue to get their breaks, our healthcare system will continue to only be available to those that can afford it, and their religious-oriented social issues will set this country back 100 years.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489644
Actually, no it wouldn't have. $179/2 weeks for premiums. With deductibles and co-pays, we would have paid about $18k of it anyways, not to mention the years of premiums. The health insurance offered by service companies(American Express call center in my case) is almost worthless. The minimum insurance offered in Obamacare will be about the same. We will be better off to pay the $950 a year "tax" and hope even more that we don't get sick or injured seriously. And the rates are going to be much higher by 2014. This steaming pile doesn't solve anything. It just gives the leeches even more perks for not working, while those of us who support ourselves are punished even more.
Have you bothered to look at the coverage you'll receive for that $988 on the ACA Plan? Of course not.
Didn't you say you made around $28K/year? After you take the standard deductions, you're one of those 47% of Americans that don't pay any taxes. How is that any different from these "leeches who don't work"?
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489653
The point is if the doc isn't paid enough to make a profit he isn't going to provide the services. I am in an unusual situation. I am on Medicare and Worker's comp. Last time I ordered crutches the supplier had to bargain with the Workers comp insurance. Workers Comp pays Medicare rates PLUS 15%. At that rate harringtons would have lost money on the crutches.
Contrary to what you might hear Medicare doesn't overpay docs for services. Cutting that even further is going to for all but the most efficient operations out of the market. So who get's screwed in the end? The patient.
Also the voucher system is intended to be for a closed market where insurers are capped at a certain rate in order to qualify to be in the program.
A doctor isn't going to go run to the unemployment line because he can only make 120% in profits as opposed to 200%. I went to a Neurologist a few months back for numbness in my legs and arms. The guy spent a total of 15 minutes running little wheels up and down my arms and legs, tapping sharps pins on my feet and hands, and making me do some other simplistic motion tests. His "professional opinion" couldn't come up with anything conclusive, and he handed me a prescription for some drug that was supposed to help with my nervous system, and said if the symptoms didn't diminish, he could set me up with a CAT Scan or MRI to look further. When I got my statement from my insurance provider, his normal rate was $250 for that office visit. This guy's been in practice for more than 10 years. I think all the loans he took out to obtain his specialty degree are paid off. If I hadn't had insurance, he'd effectively would've made $1000/hr for seeing me. Yea, I'll see him in the bread lines on TV..
So you don't think that these providers won't be claiming they're going to have to shut down their buinesses if they're capped at how much they can charge for a policy? You don't think they won't have a cap as to how many people they'll insure before it affects their bottom line? You're talking about millions of Baby Boomers coming into the Medicare roles over the next 10 - 15 years. If these providers are capped, some of the one's at the tail end won't have anyone available to go to. Then what? Oh that's right, the plan also states if you want better coverage than what your allottment will pay, that money comes out of YOUR pocket. So they'll be stuck with the premium plans, an have to spend half their retirement income paying the premiums.
 
ironeagle2006

ironeagle2006

Active Member
Everyone this is how I deal with being on Medicare and my Family since I am declared Disabled deals with Medicaid and my wifes company does not Offer Health Insurance. I have Epilepsy and that is the reason I am on SSDI and therefore on Medicare with Medicaid as a Secondary insurance. For my Family all they have is Medicaid. Here is what it is like to go to the Doc. Luckily we have a Peditrican that will take Medicaid here in town however she is NOT taking anymore Patients with it so we have her only because we are an Established Paitent with her. Any new ones have to go about 30 Miles to see one.
Now for my Wife and I our Primary Doc is 30 Miles away as NO DOCS in my town will take Medicaid for Payment and no Docs are Taking NEW MEDICARE Patients at this time. I need to see a Neurologist Despartily as I have NOT SEEN ONE IN OVER 3 YEARS. Nearest one I could get to take me is 1 Hour away. Nearest Dentist for my Kids that will see us and take their Insurance is 40 MINS away. Nearest one for my Wife and I is 1 HOUR away. There are 15 Dentists in this town and NONE will take Medicaid as Payment why it does NOT COVER their COSTS to do so. That and it takes 6 MONTHS to get Payment. So you want to wait 6 Months to get paid.
Bionic you Scream about Medical Costs you have a Clue what MalPractice Insurance is anymore for a Doctor. I have a Classmate that is ONE he pays close to 200K a Year for HIS and he is Just a Freaking General Practice Doc. For a Specialist your talking cost to 500K a YEAR in Malpractice insurance.
I get Bombarded all day long if you take this Drug this Drug call this Number we can SUE to get you Money. We need TORT REFORM in this country so freaking bad it is UNBELIVEABLE. When 20 Years after something happens some Lawyer can SUE a Doctor for something he may have done NO WONDER Docs are hanging it up. I had 3 ask me to join a Class Action because I took an Anti Seizure Drug that caused me to Puke are Lawyers that Desparate to get a Case.
 
flower

flower

Well-Known Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironeagle2006 http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489701
Everyone this is how I deal with being on Medicare and my Family since I am declared Disabled deals with Medicaid and my wifes company does not Offer Health Insurance. I have Epilepsy and that is the reason I am on SSDI and therefore on Medicare with Medicaid as a Secondary insurance. For my Family all they have is Medicaid. Here is what it is like to go to the Doc. Luckily we have a Peditrican that will take Medicaid here in town however she is NOT taking anymore Patients with it so we have her only because we are an Established Paitent with her. Any new ones have to go about 30 Miles to see one.
Now for my Wife and I our Primary Doc is 30 Miles away as NO DOCS in my town will take Medicaid for Payment and no Docs are Taking NEW MEDICARE Patients at this time. I need to see a Neurologist Despartily as I have NOT SEEN ONE IN OVER 3 YEARS. Nearest one I could get to take me is 1 Hour away. Nearest Dentist for my Kids that will see us and take their Insurance is 40 MINS away. Nearest one for my Wife and I is 1 HOUR away. There are 15 Dentists in this town and NONE will take Medicaid as Payment why it does NOT COVER their COSTS to do so. That and it takes 6 MONTHS to get Payment. So you want to wait 6 Months to get paid.
Bionic you Scream about Medical Costs you have a Clue what MalPractice Insurance is anymore for a Doctor. I have a Classmate that is ONE he pays close to 200K a Year for HIS and he is Just a Freaking General Practice Doc. For a Specialist your talking cost to 500K a YEAR in Malpractice insurance.
I get Bombarded all day long if you take this Drug this Drug call this Number we can SUE to get you Money. We need TORT REFORM in this country so freaking bad it is UNBELIVEABLE. When 20 Years after something happens some Lawyer can SUE a Doctor for something he may have done NO WONDER Docs are hanging it up. I had 3 ask me to join a Class Action because I took an Anti Seizure Drug that caused me to Puke are Lawyers that Desparate to get a Case.
I'm afraid the area you live in has a great deal to do with your lack of places to go. Here in Illinois doctors who accept medicaid and medicare are a dime a dozen...take your pick. HOWEVER...finding a doctor for old folks is a challenge. My mother's doctor is turning 90 and is retiring. I can't find a doctor that wants to take on a new elderly patient. My own doctor of 23 years won't even consider adding her to the list. Her doctor has one to send her to that he recommended, but she doesn't like him...BIG SIGH.
I do indeed agree about medicines, they save your life and 10 years later every lawyer and his brother wants you to join in and sue. I had a massive heart attack because at 22 when I gave birth I was bleeding to death, I was saved by a medication that stopped the bleeding...three months later I had a blood clot that caused the heart attack. This medicine was not discovered to cause heart problems until 10 years later and they had a base for tracing the cause. They wanted me to sue, but I would have died in child birth without the medicine that at the time was considered safe...I didn't agree to sue.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flower http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489704
I'm afraid the area you live in has a great deal to do with your lack of places to go. Here in Illinois doctors who accept medicaid and medicare are a dime a dozen...take your pick. HOWEVER...finding a doctor for old folks is a challenge. My mother's doctor is turning 90 and is retiring. I can't find a doctor that wants to take on a new elderly patient. My own doctor of 23 years won't even consider adding her to the list. Her doctor has one to send her to that he recommended, but she doesn't like him...BIG SIGH.
I do indeed agree about medicines, they save your life and 10 years later every lawyer and his brother wants you to join in and sue. I had a massive heart attack because at 22 when I gave birth I was bleeding to death, I was saved by a medication that stopped the bleeding...three months later I had a blood clot that caused the heart attack. This medicine was not discovered to cause heart problems until 10 years later and they had a base for tracing the cause. They wanted me to sue, but I would have died in child birth without the medicine that at the time was considered safe...I didn't agree to sue.
Here in the Denver area it is hard to find a Medicare doc. I called at least a half dozen docs before I found one who would accept medicare. Once I got on a Medicare advantage plan it was easy but 0bama is killing those.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Read one of bionics posts by accident-had to clear Mozilla's history. Anyway, that was the year she was down. With her income and me not working now, it is about $10k more and we have been paying about $2500 a year in Federal taxes. But even so, in the year we were at $28k a year, we still had to pay about $500 in Federal taxes. So, as usual, wrong again. Secondly, I am not concerned if only the wealthy pay taxes. That was the way income taxes were sold to the country when the Constitutional amendment allowing payroll taxes was passed. The big selling point was "only the rich will have to pay". Rush Limbaugh, back 10 or so years ago when I used to listen to him, explained what a con job the payroll tax was and how that was how it was advertized. Now that the Republicans want to cut taxes more, they have switched tactics. My only complaint with the current system is that it encourages people not to work-the Feds will pay you to live in poverty(thanks LBJ). I would like to see all personal income tax repealed, but with LBJ's permanent poor now living off the productive, it's probably not feasible. But, frankly, the fact that only the wealthy may eventually pay Federal income taxes; I think that's a step in the right direction.
p.s. Sorry fellow Conservatives. I have always said I was a conservative, but not a Republican, so I don't carry water for any party.
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
The Duggars get by on corporate sponsorships. He has stated over and over that he hasn't, and won't, take government money. BTW, I was raised Pentecostal Holiness, like them. Dresses for chicks and long sleeve shirts and long pants only for guys and no jewelry or makeup. And I came from a family of 16 kids.
 
bionicarm

bionicarm

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/392751/the-top-40/20#post_3489719
Read one of bionics posts by accident-had to clear Mozilla's history. Anyway, that was the year she was down. With her income and me not working now, it is about $10k more and we have been paying about $2500 a year in Federal taxes. But even so, in the year we were at $28k a year, we still had to pay about $500 in Federal taxes. So, as usual, wrong again. Secondly, I am not concerned if only the wealthy pay taxes. That was the way income taxes were sold to the country when the Constitutional amendment allowing payroll taxes was passed. The big selling point was "only the rich will have to pay". Rush Limbaugh, back 10 or so years ago when I used to listen to him, explained what a con job the payroll tax was and how that was how it was advertized. Now that the Republicans want to cut taxes more, they have switched tactics. My only complaint with the current system is that it encourages people not to work-the Feds will pay you to live in poverty(thanks LBJ). I would like to see all personal income tax repealed, but with LBJ's permanent poor now living off the productive, it's probably not feasible. But, frankly, the fact that only the wealthy may eventually pay Federal income taxes; I think that's a step in the right direction.
p.s. Sorry fellow Conservatives. I have always said I was a conservative, but not a Republican, so I don't carry water for any party.
Wow! A whopping $500 in taxes. So you berate someone who pays less (not sure how that' possible) or no taxes, yet your contribution to our national debt is probably .0000000000001%.
 
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