There is no such thing as good versus evil

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
He was "flying under the radar" because of what the expectations were of the coming Messiah.
The Jewish leaders were threatened because His teachings called out their hypocrisy. They wanted a political Messiah, not a religious one.
Again, the world changed dramatically after His death. Alexander conquered the known world. Ceasar ruled a vast empire, etc. Yet, Christianity has had a far more lasting impact.
If his words were indeed that powerful and insightful to his VAST following there is NO WAY he could fly under the radar. His acts and words would have traveled a great distance and would have been the wonder of the age, which would have come to be of note long before he had died, not 30-100 years later.
If they were so threatened of him then why is there no comtempory mention of him?

 

[reefreak29]

ok you obviosly got that from a web sight , if you knew that much about the bible you would be a christian. so im going to go through every one of those just give me time to type
#1- I counted twice and count 14 abraham,isaac,jacob,judah,perez,hezron,ram,amminadab,nahshon,salmon,boaz,obed,jesse,david
#2, not all of the words from jesus are written down , this saying may have been past thruogh oral communication through the apostals.as it says in john 21,25 if all the things jesus did was written down the whole world could not contain the books.
#3. mathew 8:13 - jesus healed a young servant of a roman officer.mark 1:29, jesus healed peters mother in law. mark 1:40, jesus healed a different man with leprosy that approched him

#4 its athoritative when it was written that the officer came it was really his servant . when a police officer comes to your house hes not representing himself hes representing the police department, plus luke goes into far more depth then mathew.
#5 again mathew wrote mathew and luke wrote luke, mathew was written 5 years after luke. anyhow if the person read a little further in chapter 50 he said his girl was dead.
#6 mark records that the deciples were to take nothing with them except walking sticks,while mathew and luke records that jesus said not to take walking sticks. matthew and luke were refering to a club used for protection whereas mark was refering to a shepards crook. in any case the point in all 3 accounts were the same the deciples were to leave at once without extensive preperation and trusting in gods care.
#7. thATS WAY OFF in john chapter 1;29 john said 3 times i didnt know he was the messiah(wonder where they got that from)
#8 mark records that john and james went to jesus in matthew there mother went there is no contridiction here both mother and sons were in agreement in requisting honered places in christs kingdom.

 

[clown boy]

Ah... no one wants to answer my question... what's the matter? Afraid?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
ok you obviosly got that from a web sight , if you knew that much about the bible you would be a christian. so im going to go through every one of those just give me time to type
I'd bet there are many people who can cite passages from the bible who are not christains. Yes, I got it from a website and if you want I can add 100's more??

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Ah... no one wants to answer my question... what's the matter? Afraid?

I don’t see how your question pertains to the discussion.

 

[clown boy]

It does. You'll see.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by Jmick
If his words were indeed that powerful and insightful to his VAST following there is NO WAY he could fly under the radar. His acts and words would have traveled a great distance and would have been the wonder of the age, which would have come to be of note long before he had died, not 30-100 years later.
If they were so threatened of him then why is there no comtempory mention of him?
Jmick, at what age did Jesus perform these miracles? And what age was he crucified? IIRC within 3-5 years.
He had no VAST following while he was alive BTW.
Please remember, there was no internet back then. Not even fax machines.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
Jmick, at what age did Jesus perform these miracles? And what age was he crucified? IIRC within 3-5 years.
He had no VAST following while he was alive BTW.
Please remember, there was no internet back then. Not even fax machines.
And I suppose that people didn't travel and wouldn't tell the amazing stories to people in other places? I suppose that people in the markets, temples and other gathering areas wouldn't talk and gossip? Word spreads very quickly, even with out the aid of the internet.
He didn't perform the mircles and if A Jesus was crucified it wasn't the Man/God you worship.

 

[clown boy]

It did! Haven't you read the new testament? It was the talk everywhere!

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
2) Is Paul lying? In Acts 20:35 Paul told people "to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, 'It is more blessed to give than to receive.'" Since Jesus never made such a biblical statement, isn’t Paul guilty of deception?
3) When did the leper become not a leper? (Matthew 8:13 & 8:14) Jesus healed the leper before visiting the house. (Mark 1:29-30 & 1:40-42) Jesus healed the leper after visiting Simon Peter’s house.
4) Who approached Jesus? (Matthew 8:5-7) The Centurion approached Jesus, beseeching help for a sick servant. (Luke 7:3 & 7:6-7) The Centurion did not approach Jesus. He sent friends and elders of the Jews.
I'm not going to attempt to address all these, and I'm not a Bible expert, so I'm going to take your word that these passages are really saying this.
2. Not all of Jesus' spoken words are in the Bible. As most books of the bible were written after his death, all his teachings were most likely passed by word of mouth. Jesus could have easily said this, but it wasn't put in one of the books of the Bible. Also, there were hundreds of different books written at the time...Paul could have taken it from one of them.
3,4. These both can be explained the same. As stated, the books of the Bible were written many years after Jesus' death. Some events could have been put in the wrong order by one of the writers. Is the sequence of events important? No, the meaning and Jesus' teachings are what's important.
I'm not sure if you're aware, but there was probably a book written by another person that scholars call 'Q'. Three of the 4 books from the NT were based off this 'Q' book. It is known that these three are very similar, whereas the fourth book has some differences.

 

[groupergenius]

Originally Posted by Jmick
And I suppose that people didn't travel and wouldn't tell the amazing stories to people in other places? I suppose that people in the markets, temples and other gathering areas wouldn't talk and gossip? Word spreads very quickly, even with out the aid of the internet.
He didn't perform the mircles and if A Jesus was crucified it wasn't the Man/God you worship.

OK your just not getting the point. THEY RODE FRIGGIN CAMELS!!!!!
It's not like they jumped in their SUV's and hit the coast for the weekend and told the big story. These folks lived, worked, prayed, traveled, and died in an area the size of Georgia.

 

[reefreak29]

ok #9- matthew mentions a donkey and a cult while the other gospals mention only a colt . this was the same event, but matthew was focusing on the prophecy from zechariah 9:9 where a donkey and a colt were mentioned. he shows how jesus' actions fullfilled the prophets words thus giving another indication that jesus was the messiah. when jesus entered on a donkeys colt he affirmed his messianic royalty as well as his humility.
#10-11- who cares two people writing if the words were identical i would be worried, the message is still the same
#12 neither says hes elijah but he took on his prophetic role(they dug deep for that one

)
#13-joseph and mary were second or third cousins joseph was the son of jacob in mathew joseph was the son of heli in luke there two different ancestors records heli was the father in law of joseph . ok im tired there answers to every question you have. the problem is people interpret the meanings differently but it clearly does not contradict itself
so again do you have any PROOF that the bibloe contradicts itself

 

[clown boy]

Alright, since no one else wants to answer my question, I will for them.
Let's just say that you know 1% of all the knowledge in the world. In reality, we probably know less.
Is it possible that in the 99% that you don't know that there is satisfactory evidence for the Creator?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
It did! Haven't you read the new testament? It was the talk everywhere!
Well, according to your fellow Christians there wasn't talk everywhere and it was an underground movement (would be curious how that assumption was made). Perhaps the Idol that was Jesus/figure head of Christianity was much more powerful then the man who may have lived and embellishing stories/tales was a benefit?
So has the burden of proof in this discussion...when it comes to historical evidence I don't think it's me. Hearsay is hearsay and until you have something of substance your points are rather mute. Answer these four questions.
Why are there no writings of Jesus that date to the TIME HE LIVED?
Why no sculptures, drawings or paintings?
Why did it take so long after his death to write the gospels and why in Greek, instead of either Latin or Hebrew?
Finally, why are Christians so desperate to find physical evidence of Jesus...the Shroud of Turin, the Burial Box of James and the Fictional Letters of Pontius Pilate?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
OK your just not getting the point. THEY RODE FRIGGIN CAMELS!!!!!
It's not like they jumped in their SUV's and hit the coast for the weekend and told the big story. These folks lived, worked, prayed, traveled, and died in an area the size of Georgia.
They had sea travel as well and many nomadic people, people were not static at this time, there was movement from city to city and to suggest otherwise is silly. It may have taken them longer but they still did...commerce is a wonderful thing, yes?

 

[jmick]

Reefreak, I applaud you digging into this and for that I will give you a few more to sink you teeth into and FYI, I have hundreds and hundreds more I am sure there are a few who appreciate what I am doing here...2nd and 3rd hand knowledge has it's flaws.
Here are a few of the contradictions:
Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)
Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh 24:19, and Nah 1:2)
Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor 12:20)
Should we tell lies?
Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8)
1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)
Should we steal?
Ex. 20:15 Thou shalt not steal. (Lev. 19:13)
Ex. 3:22. And ye shall spoil the Egyptians. (Ex. 12:35-36; Luke 19:29-33)
Shall we keep the Sabbath?
Ex. 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (Ex. 31:15; Num. 15:32,36)
Is. 1:13 The new moons and the Sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity. (John 5:16; Matt. 12:1-5)
Shall we make Graven images?
Ex. 20:4. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven...earth...water. (Lev. 26:1)
EX. 25:18 And thou shalt make two cherubims of gold, of beaten work shalt thou make them.
Are we "saved" through works?
Eph. 2:8,9 For by grace are ye saved through faith...not of works. (Rom. 3:20, 28; Gal. 2:16)
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.(Matt. 19:16-21)
Should good works be seen?
Matt. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works. (I Peter 2:12)
Matt. 6:1-4 Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them...that thine alms may be in secret. (Matt. 23:5)
Should we own slaves?
Lev. 25:45-46 Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy...and they shall be your posession...they shall be your bondmen forever. (Gen. 9:25; Ex. 21:2,7; Joel 3:8; Luke 12:47; Col. 3:22)
Is. 58:6 Undo the heavy burdens...break every yoke. (Matt. 23:10)
Does God change his mind?
Mal. 3:6. For I am the Lord; I change not. Num. 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. (Ezek. 24:14; James 1:17)
Ex. 32:14. And the Lord repented of the evil which he had thought to do unto his people. (Gen. 6:6; Jonah 3:10; Sam. 2:30-31; II Kings 20:1-6; Num. 16:20-35)
Are we punished for our parent's sins?
Ex. 20:5 For I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generations. (Ex. 34:7)
Ezek. 18:20 The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father.
Is God good or evil?
Psa. 145:9. The Lord is good to all. (Deut. 32:4; James 1:13)
Is. 45:7 I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things. (Lam 3:38; Jer. 18:11; Ezek. 20:25)
Is God Peaceable?
John 14:27 Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you. (Luke 2:14; Acts 10:36)
Matt. 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth, I came not to send peace, but a sword. (Matt. 10:35-37; Luke 22:36)
Was Jesus trustworthy?
John 8:14 Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true.
John 5:31 If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Shall we call people names?
Matt. 5:22 Whosoever shall say Thou fool, shall be in danger of hellfire.
Matt. 23:17 (Jesus said) Ye fools and blind.
Has anyone seen God?
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at anytime. (Ex 33:20; Tim. 6:16; John 6:46; I John 4:12)
Gen. 32:30 For I have seen god face to face. (Ex. 33:11, 23; Is. 6:1; Job 42:5)
How many gods are there?
Deut. 6:4 The Lord or God is one Lord.
Gen. 1:26 And God said, let us make man in our image.(Gen. 3:22; I John 5:7)
Are we all sinners?
Rom. 3:23 For all have sinned. (Rom. 3:10; Psa.14;3)
Job 1:1 There was a man... whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright. (Gen. 7:1; Luke 1:5-6)

 

[clown boy]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Well, according to your fellow Christians there wasn't talk everywhere and it was an underground movement (would be curious how that assumption was made).
Not at all. It was when persecution started, but before that, it was talked about everywhere.
Originally Posted by Jmick
Why are there no writings of Jesus that date to the TIME HE LIVED?
Because it wasn't until after he died, rose, and ascended that the world truly grasped his great significance.
Originally Posted by Jmick
Why no sculptures, drawings or paintings?
There are. Drawings have been found in the ancient underground church.
Originally Posted by Jmick
Why did it take so long after his death to write the gospels
Immediately after the Resurrection, Jesus gave the apostles the commission to spread the Good News. This they did... with passion. Naturally, when they had time in old age would be a good time to write everything.
Originally Posted by Jmick
and why in Greek, instead of either Latin or Hebrew?
At that time. every educated person, even in the farthest foreign country, knew Greek. Not so with Latin and Hebrew...
Originally Posted by Jmick
Finally, why are Christians so desperate to find physical evidence of Jesus...the Shroud of Turin, the Burial Box of James and the Fictional Letters of Pontius Pilate?
We aren't. But as with all groups, there are some in there who give it a bad name by the claims they make...

 

[clown boy]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Reefreak, I applaud you digging into this and for that I will give you a few more to sink you teeth into and FYI, I have hundreds and hundreds more I am sure there are a few who appreciate what I am doing here...2nd and 3rd hand knowledge has it's flaws.
Here are a few of the contradictions:
Should we kill?
Ex. 20:13 Thou shalt not commit murder.
Ex. 32:27 Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, put every man his sword by his side...and slay every man his brother...companion..neighbor.(See also 1 Sam. 6:19; 15:2,3; Num. 15:36)
Ex 20:5 "...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God..." (see also Ex 34:14, Deut 4:24, Josh 24:19, and Nah 1:2)
Gal 5:19-20 "Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are...jealousy..." (See also 2 Cor 12:20)
Should we tell lies?
Ex. 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness.(Prov. 12:22; Rev. 21:8)
1 Kings 22:23 The Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee. (II Thess. 2:11; Josh. 2:4-6 with James 2:25)
...................
.........etc, etc,,
All of those have been taken out of context... do you want a refutal for each one?

 

[reefreak29]

jmic i can give you an answer to your hundreds and hundreds of so called contridictions. the person that wrote all thes down does not understand the bible and is just trying to prove something he cant prove, because of ignorance. did u ac tually reaqd all thes scriptcures yourself there clearly easy to figure out .

 

[clown boy]

I can answer too.