There is no such thing as good versus evil

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Your numbers are reasonable... there were a lot of people who made it out of the towers and the pentagon. Don't forget that it took hours for the buildings to come down. But I'm not really seeing where your going here...
It did not take that long. Not nearly long enough. By the time people started to evacuate the second tower the first was ready to fall. It did not take long at all from them being hit to falling. Maybe an hour if that. Most people did not know what had happened. Please google 9-11. The pentagon had a fire in one wing. I don't realy believe that a plane hit that. Look up files of that day. I have seen some interestng evidence.

 

[aztec reef]

My question about the 9/11 is: why did building #7 collapsed just like a demolition exercise, when it wasn't even hit by anything ?
Now my philosophy on religion..I hope i don't disrespect anyone..
I believe in God but not jesus nor religion ..wait, let me explain:
See I think that every religion is a twisted version of the real word of God, As every culture has a dominate mystical religion of its own..(not to mention radicals ones)
If you guys know a little about Ancient History all ancient societies had a savior. Lets recap: Way before Christianity around 10.000BC there's was numerous Messiahs like:
Horus from Egypt,
Attis, Greece 1200BC.
Krishna,India 900BC
Dyonysus,Greece 300BC
Mithra, Persia 1200BC and many more..
ALL OF THIS GODS HAVE THE SAME SIMILARITIES AS JESUS..Like performing miracles,being borned through a virgin,12 deciples,Crucifiction,Resurections. Why? Why the change of the old testament to the new testament?
Why Jesus isntead of joshua?
If you know alittle of Astrology/science you'll know that religion has to do with the stars and constellations and nothing more.. The ancient maya and the ancient Egypt knew this, way back before religions were even created..So in other words Jesus is the "Sun" of God! literally, the savior of Man kind. The Sun is what gives Life to Earth/Humans..
Cristianity its Hybrid and it derrives from the basics of Egyptian religion as it was developed by the Romans..Which were also responsible for developing Crucifiction(on a cross) to control and manipulate people that if they commit crime or sins that's what they would go through.. Crucifiction is a way of sacrifice/public control,public manipulation if you will..Just like Aztecs sacrificed people(usually sinners/liers/corrupts) as an act of human population control..
As you may remenber Jesus was crucificed cause he commited the "simple" sin of just saying that he was the Son of God.."The king of jews" "Jesus of Nazared"..thus why he was crucified by the romans..
Noah's Ark its a Hybrid story that can be trace back all the way from Gilgamesh..
In short: God works in "Misterious ways" and people are misguided and take religion literally/radically. and that's why there so much confusion/hatred.. the word of God its not ment to be easy to understand..And it is true that People need religion, race, nationality, etc. as a way to separate ourselves from one or another's culture,race,lifestyle,beliefs,country ect..in order to keep balance on earth and keep culturism ..But we should respect everyones beliefs..
As for Karma, i think everyone writes their own destiny. "What goes around comes around".
Now ask yourself this.. Why would God make so many different religions?
Does he want us to be at war?
Why is Cristianity so similar to other religions way before it?
Which one is the correct version of the bible/religion?
Which religion is the right one?
Is religion even real or a myth?

 

[m0nk]

Just to throw a little gas in the fire...
I'm a Buddhist (former Catholic), I'm also a scientist. I don't believe in good or evil, but try to follow certain "precepts" that outline what technically could make up a "peaceful" life.
There are also some things that science and Buddhism hold similarly as ideology. Something that a few people have already noted is Karma. Now as a Buddhist I believe in Karma. As a scientist I believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed (the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in the universe is constant); it can only "relocated" in a sense. So, if you use negative energy in one way, who's to say this energy isn't stored up in a way that it's thrust back upon you?
The Buddhist idea of Karma was established by the same method that many scientific discoveries are; a primitive form of the scientific method. It was a "hypothesis" held by the Hindu religion (which spawned some of the beliefs used in Buddhism). The Buddha (as well as many of his followers) refined the belief here based on observation over time. The theory was eventually formed into a few simple statements: "We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate." This is basic Karma.
At any rate, I believe all mankind can inherently be destructive and I personally do not wish to be this way, but I acknowledge that any "negative energy" that I expelled as a younger man could come back to haunt me.

 

[nietzsche]

Originally Posted by m0nk
Just to throw a little gas in the fire...
I'm a Buddhist (former Catholic), I'm also a scientist. I don't believe in good or evil, but try to follow certain "precepts" that outline what technically could make up a "peaceful" life.
There are also some things that science and Buddhism hold similarly as ideology. Something that a few people have already noted is Karma. Now as a Buddhist I believe in Karma. As a scientist I believe that energy cannot be created or destroyed (the law of conservation of energy states that the total amount of energy in the universe is constant); it can only "relocated" in a sense. So, if you use negative energy in one way, who's to say this energy isn't stored up in a way that it's thrust back upon you?
The Buddhist idea of Karma was established by the same method that many scientific discoveries are; a primitive form of the scientific method. It was a "hypothesis" held by the Hindu religion (which spawned some of the beliefs used in Buddhism). The Buddha (as well as many of his followers) refined the belief here based on observation over time. The theory was eventually formed into a few simple statements: "We ourselves are responsible for our own happiness and misery. We create our own Heaven. We create our own Hell. We are the architects of our own fate." This is basic Karma.
At any rate, I believe all mankind can inherently be destructive and I personally do not wish to be this way, but I acknowledge that any "negative energy" that I expelled as a younger man could come back to haunt me.

recommend any books? ive been wanting to read what it was all about. i understand you on the science part, part of newton's laws.
i dont think of buddhism as a religion, more of a way of living though. i think naturally people want to tune out violence and just chill out and live in peace and harmony.
btw, who made god

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by nietzsche
recommend any books? ive been wanting to read what it was all about. i understand you on the science part, part of newton's laws.
i dont think of buddhism as a religion, more of a way of living though. i think naturally people want to tune out violence and just chill out and live in peace and harmony.
btw, who made god
Yeah, Buddhism is more of a philosophy than a religion, since there's no "church" or anything like that. You can meditate at a temple, but it's not "organized" like some of the others.
The book I started out with is "Buddhism Plain and Simple", by Steve Hagen. It's fairly well written and short. It's also tuned towards the Zen sect that people are more familiar with. Hope that helps.

 

[rylan1]

I have a couple views on about this thread, and first of all their is the extistence of both good and evil. I am a christian and I believe our world is similar in concept to the movie The Matrix in regards to good and evil and that many people who don't believe in it our unable to see based on them having "blinders" on their eyes. Their are many obvious people and things that exist in our world that is clearly evil and ones that our clearly good.
Second, I believe it is clear to see that their is a God.Those evidences our clear to see as well. I think it takes more faith to believe there is no God, than it is see the evidence that prooves there is a God. People in my opinion who don't believe either don't want something out of their control influence their lives, or are people who have to see God in person to believe
In regards to 911 and Islamists extremists... You have to know a little bit about the history of that region and what the Islam religion is based on to understand why they hate the West and dislike Christians and Jews. With this knowledge you can understand the whole dynamic that revolves around these relgious wars and the thought process of the extemists, which was an error that the Bush Admin failed to do in invading Iraq

 

[clown boy]

Have any of you actually read the Bible? God's Word? Moral standards are clearly defined there.
To say you believe in God, but you don't believe the things He said... is purely ridiculous.
If you do not believe the Bible, you simply cannot say you don't believe his word. God cannot lie.
Originally Posted by Exodus 20
1 And God spoke all these words, saying:
2 “I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.
4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
7 “You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
8 “ Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
12 “ Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.
13 “You shall not murder.
14 “You shall not commit adultery.
15 “You shall not steal.
16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
There it is. The very words of the Creator of the Universe.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Have any of you actually read the Bible? God's Word? Moral standards are clearly defined there.
To say you believe in God, but you don't believe the things He said... is purely ridiculous.
If you do not believe the Bible, you simply cannot say you don't believe his word. God cannot lie.
There it is. The very words of the Creator of the Universe.

IMO, there are 2 different approaches when speaking to (1) a person who believes in no God and (2) a person who believes in a different religion. Some people have a hard time believing that what is written in a book by men is the actual word of God. So by blasting Bible verses at them is not the best approach. I believe that there is a process in leading people to God and their understanding and relationship with God. For some people this happens very quickly but for many they do not. There are evidences that proove there is a God and that there is no way to salvation and heaven, except through Jesus.
We as people want all the answers and many of them our given to us if we seek it, however we never can know everything there is to know about God and how, what, why we exist and how everything as we know it, don't know it, or think we know it came to be.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Have any of you actually read the Bible? God's Word? Moral standards are clearly defined there.
To say you believe in God, but you don't believe the things He said... is purely ridiculous.
If you do not believe the Bible, you simply cannot say you don't believe his word. God cannot lie.
There it is. The very words of the Creator of the Universe.
These words were written by men. It is faith that leads you to believe that this is the word of god.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Second;
I will never strap a backpack full of explosives on myself and blow it up in a school bus full of kids....
No difference? I'm a lot different than that... I'm a lot "better" than that.
If this makes you sleep better at night and feel that you are more righteous than our enemies, then enjoy your comfortable perspective. However, if you look a little deeper into the nature of man, and allow yourself to consider ideas that may be a little less warm and fuzzy, then you may see that all sides have murdered, raped, stolen, and committed atrocities.
However, I'm sure you're happier thinking that the war is about the good guy versus the bad guy. I understand this inclination, however it is looking at life as if it's no more complex than a bad comic book. Let's go kill a bunch of bad guys. The war in a nutshell, right?

 

[clown boy]

Originally Posted by crimzy
These words were written by men. It is faith that leads you to believe that this is the word of god.
Not at all! Didn't you read the first line of the scripture I quoted?

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Not at all! Didn't you read the first line of the scripture I quoted?

You can say what ever you wish, but the bible was written by men and if you want to believe it is god's word then that is up to you.
You can say what ever you want to but I will never believe it's god's word and many people feel the same way. When you can show me tangible proof there is a god then I will believe but until then all you have is your blind faith.

 

[jmick]

Bible contradictions...if it is indeed God's own word then why so many contradictions?
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

 

[jmick]

Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by crimzy
If this makes you sleep better at night and feel that you are more righteous than our enemies, then enjoy your comfortable perspective. However, if you look a little deeper into the nature of man, and allow yourself to consider ideas that may be a little less warm and fuzzy, then you may see that all sides have murdered, raped, stolen, and committed atrocities.
However, I'm sure you're happier thinking that the war is about the good guy versus the bad guy. I understand this inclination, however it is looking at life as if it's no more complex than a bad comic book. Let's go kill a bunch of bad guys. The war in a nutshell, right?
You're changing the argument.
The title to this post is "there is no such thing as good and evil". That's what I'm pointing out is wrong.
When the Germans invaded Poland and began rounding up the Jews that was evil. When they began gassing millions of prisoners it was evil. The Bataan death march was evil. The trail of Tears=evil. 9-11=evil. Slavery=evil...
Without "good" and "evil" there is nothing to seperate the act of a 10 year old boy from donating his birthday money to tsunami victims to Stalin's "Purge".

 

[veni vidi vici]

Great post crimzy,
God vs satan ,Light vs Dark,Tuth vs Lies......
Matt 7:2-5 "For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged [if we judge with an evil heart or dark intent, His judgment of us will reflect it; if we judge nobly and honestly, His judgment of us will reflect that, too].
John 7:24. There, Jesus tells us to judge, but to do so righteously. Righteously means to use the Truth of the Word to discern sins and not by appearances only. In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes us to judge. Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one's behavior we must we try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.
The truth is this we are all born sinners. Romans 3:23 says “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”
I was born a sinner and i just try and work on that.This quote sticks in my head "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he" I am resposible for my choices and my actions ,thats it.Who know more than GOD? Not i.I think ill just let HIM sort um out on judgement day.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I was born a sinner and i just try and work on that.This quote sticks in my head "As a man thinketh in his heart so is he" I am resposible for my choices and my actions ,thats it.Who know more than GOD? Not i.I think ill just let HIM sort um out on judgement day.

Explain to me how you were born a sinner?

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Explain to me how you were born a sinner?
I didnt come here to explain or push my beliefs on others, only to post my thoughts.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I didnt come here to explain or push my beliefs on others, only to post my thoughts.

No explanation, how convenient…

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
No explanation, how convenient…
Well i could tell you where its at in the Bible but i dont think that would matter to you.Either you believe or you dont,that is your choice.