There is no such thing as good versus evil

rylan1

Active Member
But in regards to the Good and Evil thing... Islam was created/founded because Mohammed believed that people of Judaism and Christianity were becoming capitalists and materialistic. That these ways were evil. Also that Christians and Jews misinterpreted the words of Jesus and the Torah. They believe that children are born Muslims and are converted by their parents... basically they believe that others are corrupt and that without us the world would be a much better place.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
But in regards to the Good and Evil thing... Islam was created/founded because Mohammed believed that people of Judaism and Christianity were becoming capitalists and materialistic. That these ways were evil. Also that Christians and Jews misinterpreted the words of Jesus and the Torah. They believe that children are born Muslims and are converted by their parents... basically they believe that others are corrupt and that without us the world would be a much better place.
Where did you get this info from Rylan?
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by psusocr1
my father always told me: NEVER get into a convo in a bar about A.) politics or B.) religion...
although we arent in a bar, i still always avoid this subject!
Thanks for your input psu... this really contributes a lot to the conversation. You don't get involved, huh... when are you moving to France anyway?
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
Interesting point... my thoughts here may, in your estimation, be a semantical argument. I stand by the first post, that the essence of human nature is violent, barbaric, cruel. That being said, the atrocities you mention in the first paragraph are no more evil than the black widow spider that kills her mate.... just chalk that up to another of the millions of examples of the violence of human nature.
The 10 year old boy donating his money is not consistent with our violent nature. This is the exercise of free will. This is similar to Martin Luther King, Jr. suggesting that violence be met with nonviolence. We do not have to act in a violent way, although we usually do.
The only reason that humankind is not necessarily destined to destroy itself is that we have the ability to lay down our arms, we have the ability to protect the environment, to conserve endangered species. These abilities are what we should strive for. However so many people are more inclined to follow the basic instinct to achieve our goals by sheer force.
If people would take responsibility for our species' barbarism, rather than distance ourselves by the thinking that, "they are just bad people", then these people would feel more compelled to combat violent tendencies. By believing that the terrorists are simply evil, we allow our minds to justify more violence. As such, peace will never be achieved because both sides feel that they are fighting "evil".
A spider does not have free will. Therefore it cannot be good or evil. A person chooses how to behave.
Without "good" or "evil" our decisons would be based solely on our own desires. You speak of laying down arms, conserving species, etc. Why does it matter? Without a conscience we should be free to do anything we want within the framework of arbitrary and whimsical laws.
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Where did you get this info from Rylan?
Most is based on prior knowledge from who knows where...I have some aquaintences w/ people who believe in that faith.... You can also go to wikapedia or other online source... wikapedia or ask.com and put in what is islam
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
Also that Christians and Jews misinterpreted the words of Jesus and the Torah. They believe that children are born Muslims and are converted by their parents... basically they believe that others are corrupt and that without us the world would be a much better place.
I was more interested in this statement
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by 1journeyman
A spider does not have free will. Therefore it cannot be good or evil. A person chooses how to behave.
Without "good" or "evil" our decisons would be based solely on our own desires. You speak of laying down arms, conserving species, etc. Why does it matter? Without a conscience we should be free to do anything we want within the framework of arbitrary and whimsical laws.
Your remarks are kinda right on... which goes back to biblical days... and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.. maybe God intended for humans to be more like animals in respect to their nature. But because of the Fall of man, we gained the knowledge of Good and Evil (Conscience) which corrupts us and makes us sinful by nature...so yes the things our ancestors did.. does affect us because once this happened...it can not be changed and it affects everything from that day on. I believe that before the Fall we could have direct conversations with God and when the Fall occured it placed a void b/w man and God- and also allowed evil to enter the world through Satan whom in the Fall was casted out of heaven and is now angry w/ God because of God's love of humans.
 

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
Here is another: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell,Spirituality is for those who have been there.IMO
"Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell,Spirituality is for those who have been there"
Garry Busey right?
 

rylan1

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
I was more interested in this statement
what about it?
As I stated the religions have the same root and are essentially branches. Muslims don't believe in the Trinity which is why they don't believe in Jesus as God. But the Trinity is not 3 seperate Gods as to what Muslims believe Christians are saying. If God can be in all things and everywhere he can exist in different forms in different places. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet and that Mohammad was the last and greatest prophet. Jesus is said to be the Savior because he meets the 412 (I can't remember if this is the right #) prophecies said that the one true savior would be/do. No one else does this which is why he is the Savior. there have been others but none like Jesus. Jews believe that the Savior is still coming and that he will be a person and not a god. They believe that the Messiah will build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isaiah 2:4), where as Christians believe he will do this in the Second Coming.
 

rylan1

Active Member
What would you rather be???
If there is a heaven and hell... would you rather die being a non believier who will suffer the consequences or someone who believes and vice versa... If there is no heaven and hell what does it matter because you would never know...so if that makes sense I would rather die being a believer because I would have more to loose as a non-believer.
 

jmick

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
What would you rather be???
If there is a heaven and hell... would you rather die being a non believier who will suffer the consequences or someone who believes and vice versa... If there is no heaven and hell what does it matter because you would never know...so if that makes sense I would rather die being a believer because I would have more to loose as a non-believer.

Do you feel that all nonbelievers will go to hell regardless of the person they are, even if they lived better lives then most christains? Also do only christains go to heaven or do Jews and Muslims also go...they more or less believe in the same god right?
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
What would you rather be???
If there is a heaven and hell... would you rather die being a non believier who will suffer the consequences or someone who believes and vice versa... If there is no heaven and hell what does it matter because you would never know...so if that makes sense I would rather die being a believer because I would have more to loose as a non-believer.
Your beliefs offer you comfort. There is nothing wrong with this. However, I look at everything that I see and everything that I've learned from mine and other religions and have my own beliefs. It doesn't matter what I would RATHER believe. To an analytical mind, the emotional gratification of a certain idea shouldn't sway an opinion. Logic and reason tell me what makes sense in my belief structure.
And the reality is, even if there was a heaven or hell, it wouldn't change my behavior. My "goodness" or "badness" would be judged, I assume, by the choices that I engage in. The fact that I exercise my ability to think analytically and question religion/god is simply a product of the gifts that I've been given... by god.
And BTW, I feel that the implication that a "non-believer" is going to hell is a VERY dangerous attitude. This is the belief of the extremists and is used to justify murder. However, I guess this supports my original claim that we are all inherently similar.
 

crimzy

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
What would you rather be???
If there is a heaven and hell... would you rather die being a non believier who will suffer the consequences or someone who believes and vice versa... If there is no heaven and hell what does it matter because you would never know...so if that makes sense I would rather die being a believer because I would have more to loose as a non-believer.
The trouble with these beliefs, in this life, means that it allows some to be labelled as saved and others damned. It allows us to create different values for people based on these beliefs. The beliefs do not allow for tolerance if you feel strongly. Moreover, those who hold strongest to these views feel compelled to save others. This belief is inconsistant with the concept of equality.
 

dogstar

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
And BTW, I feel that the implication that a "non-believer" is going to hell is a VERY dangerous attitude. This is the belief of the extremists and is used to justify murder. However, I guess this supports my original claim that we are all inherently similar.
Crimzy, could you explain this a little more...
Though I dont expect anyone to understand my religion unless they have recieved my spirit...
You may call me an extreamist, your right to do so, but I dont justify murder in any form.
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
"Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell,Spirituality is for those who have been there"
Garry Busey right?

Nope lol AA
 

1journeyman

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
The trouble with these beliefs, in this life, means that it allows some to be labelled as saved and others damned. It allows us to create different values for people based on these beliefs. The beliefs do not allow for tolerance if you feel strongly. Moreover, those who hold strongest to these views feel compelled to save others. This belief is inconsistant with the concept of equality.
Crimzy, these kind of discussions are based on perspective. Primarily, whether or not one believes in tha validity of the Bible.
You really can't try to discuss the Christian faith while excluding what the Bible says.
 

seasalt101

Active Member
Originally Posted by crimzy
The trouble with these beliefs, in this life, means that it allows some to be labelled as saved and others damned. It allows us to create different values for people based on these beliefs. The beliefs do not allow for tolerance if you feel strongly. Moreover, those who hold strongest to these views feel compelled to save others. This belief is inconsistant with the concept of equality.
ok i've watched this thread now since it started there is good and there is evil mother theresa vs jeffrey dahmer, hitler vs ghandi now everyone is different we know that but in some people there is a cruel streak (michael vick) if there was no good vs evil there would be no legal system there is the human level of it, the spiritual level in my opinion exist also i believe in the bible so, i believe in god and in the devil heaven and hell do i have proof no is there proof the world is billions of years old no, carbon dating does not go that far back it is a relatively new science there is no proof it works till it is recorded that way for at least 1000 years tree rings are proven as accurate, now back to whatever my rant is all religions think theirs is the right one if it didn't there would be no following in it it is up to each individual to decide which one if any he wants to follow (cater it to their own belief is usually how the average joe does it) me personally god calls you, you know you have been called there is no mistake about it he does not mix words when i 1st was diagnosed with cancer i had a vision and was told i would make it i was not sedated so i believe this even though it is hard, painful, mentally draining i believe this so yes faith comes into play, i'm rambleing i know but if there was no good vs evil how do we have real heroes out there (not sports heroes, real heroes) and in the same token we have some evil demented people out there too, and it takes the good to take out the evil jmo...tobin
 

veni vidi vici

Active Member
Originally Posted by Rylan1
what about it?
As I stated the religions have the same root and are essentially branches. Muslims don't believe in the Trinity which is why they don't believe in Jesus as God. But the Trinity is not 3 seperate Gods as to what Muslims believe Christians are saying. If God can be in all things and everywhere he can exist in different forms in different places. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet and that Mohammad was the last and greatest prophet. Jesus is said to be the Savior because he meets the 412 (I can't remember if this is the right #) prophecies said that the one true savior would be/do. No one else does this which is why he is the Savior. there have been others but none like Jesus. Jews believe that the Savior is still coming and that he will be a person and not a god. They believe that the Messiah will build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28). Gather all Jews back to the Land of Israel (Isaiah 43:5-6). Usher in an era of world peace, and end all hatred, oppression, suffering and disease. (Isaiah 2:4), where as Christians believe he will do this in the Second Coming.
To be more specific i wanted to know where you got this info from . I never heard this before .i was interested in the statement "They believ that children are born Muslim." Im assumeing you meant Chritians and Jews believe this? Im just curious as to where this info originated from.
Originally Posted by Rylan1

Also that Christians and Jews misinterpreted the words of Jesus and the Torah. They believe that children are born Muslims and are converted by their parents... basically they believe that others are corrupt and that without us the world would be a much better place.
 

darknes

Active Member
Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
To be more specific i wanted to know where you got this info from . I never heard this before .i was interested in the statement "They believ that children are born Muslim." Im assumeing you meant Chritians and Jews believe this? Im just curious as to where this info originated from.
I never heard this either, but I think he meant that Muslims believe their children are born Muslim.
 
Top