There is no such thing as good versus evil

[reefraff]

As long as this has degraded into a religious thread you guys ever hear of the Bahai faith? Interesting concept.
Anyway I heard a great quote about religion once. Actually was more than religion but was being used and that context when I read it.
"I hope I never become so smart that I discount, scoff at or belittle that which I am unable to understand"

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Not at all! Didn't you read the first line of the scripture I quoted?
Still a man claiming it was the word of "God".
God means different things to different people, different faiths, and different sects of different faiths, which is something that most Christians don't understand. Buddha never discounted the thought that there might be a god, he just realized that if there is a god, that god doesn't play a role in our day-to-day lives.
That still comes back to the fact that good vs. evil is a state of mind. “All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything. What we think we become.”

 

[jmick]

Doesn't it seem strange that an all powerful god would hold sins against you that were committed by your ancestors 1000's of years ago, doesn't that seem petty and small? You don't see it as a ploy/scare tactic to hook people into religion for the salvation of their souls?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
You can say what ever you wish, but the bible was written by men and if you want to believe it is god's word then that is up to you.
You can say what ever you want to but I will never believe it's god's word and many people feel the same way. When you can show me tangible proof there is a god then I will believe but until then all you have is your blind faith.
There will never be tangible proof of God's existence. One of the gifts we're given that makes us human is Free Will. We are allowed to choose whether to believe or not; God would never prove his existence to us, as that would destroy our free will. He didn't want us to be robots, praising him because we knew he's there; He wants us to choose.
So, I respect your beliefs but will choose my own.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
When the Germans invaded Poland and began rounding up the Jews that was evil. When they began gassing millions of prisoners it was evil. The Bataan death march was evil. The trail of Tears=evil. 9-11=evil. Slavery=evil...
Without "good" and "evil" there is nothing to seperate the act of a 10 year old boy from donating his birthday money to tsunami victims to Stalin's "Purge".
Interesting point... my thoughts here may, in your estimation, be a semantical argument. I stand by the first post, that the essence of human nature is violent, barbaric, cruel. That being said, the atrocities you mention in the first paragraph are no more evil than the black widow spider that kills her mate.... just chalk that up to another of the millions of examples of the violence of human nature.
The 10 year old boy donating his money is not consistent with our violent nature. This is the exercise of free will. This is similar to Martin Luther King, Jr. suggesting that violence be met with nonviolence. We do not have to act in a violent way, although we usually do.
The only reason that humankind is not necessarily destined to destroy itself is that we have the ability to lay down our arms, we have the ability to protect the environment, to conserve endangered species. These abilities are what we should strive for. However so many people are more inclined to follow the basic instinct to achieve our goals by sheer force.
If people would take responsibility for our species' barbarism, rather than distance ourselves by the thinking that, "they are just bad people", then these people would feel more compelled to combat violent tendencies. By believing that the terrorists are simply evil, we allow our minds to justify more violence. As such, peace will never be achieved because both sides feel that they are fighting "evil".

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by reefraff
As long as this has degraded into a religious thread you guys ever hear of the Bahai faith? Interesting concept.
Anyway I heard a great quote about religion once. Actually was more than religion but was being used and that context when I read it.
"I hope I never become so smart that I discount, scoff at or belittle that which I am unable to understand"
Here is another: “There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”
Religion is for people who are afraid of going to hell,Spirituality is for those who have been there.IMO

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Bible contradictions...if it is indeed God's own word then why so many contradictions?
1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
......
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7
The Bible needs to be read and interpreted in context. The Bible does not contradict itself. What you are doing is misquoting the Bible because you can not simply write part of a verse w/o using the whole verse.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The Bible needs to be read and interpreted in context. The Bible does not contradict itself. What you are doing is misquoting the Bible because you can not simply write part of a verse w/o using the whole verse.
So the bible has no contradictions..not a single one?
The biggest contradiction is between the old and new testaments...guess after having a son god really chilled out huh?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Top Ten Signs You're a Fundamentalist Christian
10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.
9 - You feel insulted and "dehumanized" when scientists say that people evolved from other life forms, but you have no problem with the Biblical claim that we were created from dirt.
8 - You laugh at polytheists, but you have no problem believing in a Triune God.
7 - Your face turns purple when you hear of the "atrocities" attributed to Allah, but you don't even flinch when hearing about how God/Jehovah slaughtered all the babies of Egypt in "Exodus" and ordered the elimination of entire ethnic groups in "Joshua" including women, children, and trees!
6 - You laugh at Hindu beliefs that deify humans, and Greek claims about gods sleeping with women, but you have no problem believing that the Holy Spirit impregnated Mary, who then gave birth to a man-god who got killed, came back to life and then ascended into the sky.
5 - You are willing to spend your life looking for little loopholes in the scientifically established age of Earth (few billion years), but you find nothing wrong with believing dates recorded by Bronze Age tribesmen sitting in their tents and guessing that Earth is a few generations old.
4 - You believe that the entire population of this planet with the exception of those who share your beliefs -- though excluding those in all rival sects - will spend Eternity in an infinite Hell of Suffering. And yet consider your religion the most "tolerant" and "loving."
3 - While modern science, history, geology, biology, and physics have failed to convince you otherwise, some idiot rolling around on the floor speaking in "tongues" may be all the evidence you need to "prove" Christianity.
2 - You define 0.01% as a "high success rate" when it comes to answered prayers. You consider that to be evidence that prayer works. And you think that the remaining 99.99% FAILURE was simply the will of God.
1 - You actually know a lot less than many atheists and agnostics do about the Bible, Christianity, and church history - but still call yourself a Christian.
So do you believe in any God or are you an atheist. Do you have to see something or hold it to know that it exists?

 

[crimzy]

On the religious realm, I would not contradict the teachings of the bible. I would not confirm them either. Religion, by its very nature, requires faith without physical proof. God does not need to prove himself to us. However, each of us choose what to believe by either (1) majority perspective, (2) family teachings, (3) independant analysis, or a combination of these. I would not discount someone who believes that the bible, or ten commandments, are the word of god. But understand that these words were interepreted, passed down through generations, translated and written by man. Faith is ok, but it is not proof.

 

[reefreak29]

First off, I do believe in god, but I don't believe in inherent goodness or evil. I don't believe in heaven and hell. I also don't believe that god is overly concerned with judging us. I mean realistically, millions of people have been killed by natural disasters. The bible tells the stories of Noah and Job, showing the ease by which people are wiped out by the higher power. I believe that death, in the eyes of god, is nothing more than a function of the natural cycle... creation, life, death, rebirth.
sorry but if you believe in God you would know there is good and evil and would also understand the judjing process that God has instore for use

 

[veni vidi vici]

Originally Posted by Jmick
So the bible has no contradictions..not a single one?
The biggest contradiction is between the old and new testaments...guess after having a son god really chilled out huh?
Hehe Im going to pray for you Jmick

 

[dksart]

This is an awesome thread! Thanks guys, for some of the most interesting reading I've had in a long time.
Good Karma to you all!

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
So do you believe in any God or are you an atheist. Do you have to see something or hold it to know that it exists?

I am certainly not an atheist, I would consider myself an agnostic. I neither believe or disbelieve in a higher power. I have seen some amazing things in my life but it's not enough for me to have faith that they were created by a god or gods.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
sorry but if you believe in God you would know there is good and evil and would also understand the judjing process that God has instore for use
This is where we will disagree. As I stated in the beginning, I don't believe that god judges us any more than we judge who's more righteous among a cluster of ants. I believe in a higher power who created us. However I believe that our understanding of right/wrong, good/evil, or simply morality, is a manmade concept.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
So the bible has no contradictions..not a single one?
The biggest contradiction is between the old and new testaments...guess after having a son god really chilled out huh?
There are so many things I would like to get to in regards to this thread, but I'll probably be unable to. I would recommend that you find a relaible resource to answer some of the questions you have.
The Old Testament and the New Testament do not contradict each other. I am not going to proclaim myself as a Bible scholar so I will be unable to answer some of your questions...But the two books represent 2 distinct eras. The one before Christ and the one after. What makes the New Testament different is that Christ is the redeemer for all of humanity and that we were waiting for him in the Old Testament. After He came it changed our relationship with God the Father and the things that were required to be saved or rightious.
In respect to the Trinity, I know that it may be confusing or may not make sense to you. There is only one God, however he makes Himself available in 3 ways. Prior to the New Testament, I believe that he made himself available to us through the Father. I can't remember if The Holy Spirt was on Earth at that time...But then He came to us through Jesus who is also God, but God in human form. Now the Holy Spirit who is also God is on Earth now.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
First off, I do believe in god, but I don't believe in inherent goodness or evil. I don't believe in heaven and hell. I also don't believe that god is overly concerned with judging us. I mean realistically, millions of people have been killed by natural disasters. The bible tells the stories of Noah and Job, showing the ease by which people are wiped out by the higher power. I believe that death, in the eyes of god, is nothing more than a function of the natural cycle... creation, life, death, rebirth.
sorry but if you believe in God you would know there is good and evil and would also understand the judjing process that God has instore for use
The fact that we have natural disasters has nothing to do with God and whether there is Good or Evil. But if you don't believe in an afterlife than what do you believe in?

 

[psusocr1]

my father always told me: NEVER get into a convo in a bar about A.) politics or B.) religion...
although we arent in a bar, i still always avoid this subject!

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
I am certainly not an atheist, I would consider myself an agnostic. I neither believe or disbelieve in a higher power. I have seen some amazing things in my life but it's not enough for me to have faith that they were created by a god or gods.
Take a look at all that is around you and I... how perfect our world is and how we have exactly all that need and more. Take a look at the systems we have in regards to the Solar System, seasons, cycles in nature. Look at the building blocks of living things with DNA, atoms, and bacteria.... Look at the fact that we have a conscience. This shows me that there was a builder, an archetict to this world. To believe that a machine as simple as a living bacteria can devlop from just mixing some chemicals is ludacris. They say that the universe is expanding and started from a big bang... ok... what created the big bang or the energy necessary for it if all was null and void?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
On the religious realm, I would not contradict the teachings of the bible. I would not confirm them either. Religion, by its very nature, requires faith without physical proof. God does not need to prove himself to us. However, each of us choose what to believe by either (1) majority perspective, (2) family teachings, (3) independant analysis, or a combination of these. I would not discount someone who believes that the bible, or ten commandments, are the word of god. But understand that these words were interepreted, passed down through generations, translated and written by man. Faith is ok, but it is not proof.
I can understand that... I tend to believe that God would not let his words be misinterpreted. If indeed the Bible is God's words...I believe that he can and will intercede in some divine way if things were changed