There is no such thing as good versus evil

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
lol, then there are a lot of false christians out there...is it hard to go to church and have them sit in the pew next to you?
yes to the first statement, no to the second question.
As soon as I'm without fault I'll start looking at the fault in others... I'm a long way from that though.
But ya, there are a lot of people who think going to church and saying they are a Christian makes it so.

 

[darthtang aw]

Good and evil is the inherrant view that one's action are good or bad. It is that simple. How do you tell the difference between good and evil or if there is a difference? That is the true debate. It is all perception and beliefs held through life. Good and evil exists to each individual, there are just different views on what is good and evil.
Let me give you an example. Very simple action that can viewed as evil or good depending upon your perception of life and the natural (or unnatural) order of things.
The other day my fiance, myself and my 4 year old son were playing Nintendo wii together. A mouse (there has been construction in the area) some how made it's way into my house and ran across the floor in the room in front of us. I own a cat.
My wife hates mice as they freak her out and they carry diseases that can be passed on to my family. So I got the cat closed the door and put it in the room with us. Five minutes went by and the cat caught the mouse. I sat and watched this occur. The cat, pounced on the mouse, It placed it in it's mouth than dropped it, the mouse tried to scurry away, the cat caught it again "crunch" then dropped it, the mouse tried to get away again. The cat caught it again. This sene played out for three minutes before the mouse went into it's death throws. Then I watched the cat proceed to eat the mouse.
Now, this action can be viewed as both good or evil. It depends on what you place a higher value on. I can viewed as evil for purposely gtting the cat to remove the mouse problem. I can be viewed as evil for allowing nature to enact it's natural cycle and watching the mouse suffer. I can be viewed as evil for being instrumental in bringing about the death of the mouse. I can be viewed as evil for not capturing the mouse and letting it go outside.
Now, I can be viewed as good for feeding my cat and allowing my cat to do what it wanted to do and what can natural to it. I can be viewed as good for causing my fiance to be at ease. I can be viewed as good for preventing my family to possibly catch a mouse carried disease. I can be viewed as good for playing a role in the denmise in a nuisance that could have gone on to plague and cause problems on another family in the neighborhood.
The main difference is values, I value my family's health and well being over that of a creature that carries diseases and poses a threat to them and the neighbors. Someone else may value the life of the living creature over their own and their family. This is the difference when discussing good and evil. There is good and evil, however it is based off of beliefs, education, moral upbringing, and what is valued most.
Good and evil exists, there may be no true definition of what is good and evil from one to the next, but it does exist...the interpretation of that which is good or evil is up to debate. That is all.
To say it does not exist is to deny right and wrong, morals, values, beliefs, and standards. Without the existance of what a person believes as good or evil, we as humans would be no different that animals with no free thought and acting purely on instinct.

 

[crimzy]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
Good and evil exists, there may be no true definition of what is good and evil from one to the next, but it does exist...the interpretation of that which is good or evil is up to debate. That is all.
To say it does not exist is to deny right and wrong, morals, values, beliefs, and standards. Without the existance of what a person believes as good or evil, we as humans would be no different that animals with no free thought and acting purely on instinct.
Your argument is that each person judge's what's good of evil for him/herself. This is similar to my point. My point was that there is no objective, inherent goodness or badness. These concepts are created by man.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Your beliefs offer you comfort. There is nothing wrong with this. However, I look at everything that I see and everything that I've learned from mine and other religions and have my own beliefs. It doesn't matter what I would RATHER believe. To an analytical mind, the emotional gratification of a certain idea shouldn't sway an opinion. Logic and reason tell me what makes sense in my belief structure.
And the reality is, even if there was a heaven or hell, it wouldn't change my behavior. My "goodness" or "badness" would be judged, I assume, by the choices that I engage in. The fact that I exercise my ability to think analytically and question religion/god is simply a product of the gifts that I've been given... by god.
And BTW, I feel that the implication that a "non-believer" is going to hell is a VERY dangerous attitude. This is the belief of the extremists and is used to justify murder. However, I guess this supports my original claim that we are all inherently similar.
I don't understand why this is a dangerous attitude. It doesn't justify murder because I believe that God knows your heart and that many people who claim to be believers are reall not.. I leave it to God to make the decision. Extremists are different because they may base their choices on religion, but it seems to me that their true goals are political.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
The trouble with these beliefs, in this life, means that it allows some to be labelled as saved and others damned. It allows us to create different values for people based on these beliefs. The beliefs do not allow for tolerance if you feel strongly. Moreover, those who hold strongest to these views feel compelled to save others. This belief is inconsistant with the concept of equality.
I can understand what you are saying...but to be unsaved is not to be damned..you still have the opportunity to be saved at any age and even on your death bed... As far as tolerance its kind of 2 sided because if you see something that is wrong than you should speak up about it... however Christianity and Judaism are tolerant based on their ideals. Jesus' ministry was targeted to the down and out, the poor, the sick, the mistreated... So it is indeed tolerant, but keep im mind that we are all human and fall short of what God wants us to be, we all sin and the fault should be placed on the person and not God.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Your argument is that each person judge's what's good of evil for him/herself. This is similar to my point. My point was that there is no objective, inherent goodness or badness. These concepts are created by man.
I totally disagree... this is not what Good and Evil is... I think we have to seperate with what is right and wrong vs. good and evil.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by crimzy
Your argument is that each person judge's what's good of evil for him/herself. This is similar to my point. My point was that there is no objective, inherent goodness or badness. These concepts are created by man.
Your conscience tells you what is good and evil right and wrong...whatever choice you make is your choice.

 

[reefreak29]

Originally Posted by reefreak29
The fact that we have natural disasters has nothing to do with God and whether there is Good or Evil. But if you don't believe in an afterlife than what do you believe in?
rylan i believe you misread what i said i was quoting what someone else had said

 

[nigerbang]

Good and Evil translates into this
Me: I kill people everyday...For pop. control
You: Your an evil person
Me: Your evil for not wanting to help with the bodies....
He who does what they want and believe that they are doing right will always see themselves as good and the other looking in will see them as evil..
As far as god goes.....Nvm..

 

[sepulatian]

Originally Posted by NigerBang
Good and Evil translates into this
Me: I kill people everyday...For pop. control
You: Your an evil person
Me: Your evil for not wanting to help with the bodies....
He who does what they want and believe that they are doing right will always see themselves as good and the other looking in will see them as evil..
As far as god goes.....Nvm..
Hmmmm, that is a quote, I cannot place from where though..........

 

[aztec reef]

Since the begining of man-kind, Man has worship the Elemental Gods cause they feared the thunder and prayed for rain. They actually believed that by praying they stoped the thunders and brought rain.. So they went on to worshipping the Heavenly Gods(in the sky) Man believed the Heavenly Gods were the resting place of their souls to be loved... and be feared... The bible says it!
"And lest thou lift up the eyes unto Heaven, and when thou seest the Sun, and the Moon, and the stars,even all the host of Heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and served them" Deutoronomy 4:19
Why do you think all previous Gods before jesus had halos on their heads too? cause they symbolize the SUN.(the son of God). I know jesus doesn't have a halo but he had the crown of thorns which represents a sun.
If you'd notice all gods worship the sun, but of course it sounds insane to worship the Sun in the 20th Century..we're more sophisticated and civilized than that..
"And God made two great lights, The greater light(Sun) to rule the day and the lesser light(moon) to rule the night" Genesis 1:17
The moon represents the female Energy and the Sun the male energy which was ment to rule ALL. Jesus= "the light of the world"
Man invented Gods not only to give humans something to worship....but also something to fear... The goal is to control people with "fear" cause people can't be controled by force so they use the form of religion, which is an ingenious form of "mind control".
Now, present world leaders are trying to play Gods worshipping the "All seeing Eye"(aka $$$)Its all part of the Illuminati civilization..(you guys know what the trilateral commision is?).. Look at the back of the $1 dollar bill, at the left side, the pyramid with the EYE.
Now look at the banner under the pyramid, Do you people know what "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" means?
FYI, it means= NEW WORLD ORDER! its the new idea for the world, US senior president George Bush announced it(decades ago)..Why do you think is in the back of the dollar???
Anyways here's a question, Jesus said: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God"
when jesus said that, the "ONLY" word of GOD was the Old testament back then ..So now you guys are reading the New testament? How accurate can the New testament be? if there was no messiah after jesus..
here's something interesting about religion..The book of mormons says: "And there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people"
mormons believe that black people are the descendents of canaan, And that darkness was a curse that God gave them for the murder of Abel.. So if you ask me that sounds like a racist GOD.
Satan's greatest trick was convincing man he didn't exist.

 

[nigerbang]

Originally Posted by sepulatian
Hmmmm, that is a quote, I cannot place from where though..........
Really...which part is a quote...wow..I was one the same wavelength as a quoted person..

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Since the begining of man-kind, Man has worship the Elemental Gods cause they feared the thunder and prayed for rain. They actually believed that by praying they stoped the thunders and brought rain.. So they went on to worshipping the Heavenly Gods(in the sky) Man believed the Heavenly Gods were the resting place of their souls to be loved... and be feared... The bible says it!
"And lest thou lift up the eyes unto Heaven, and when thou seest the Sun, and the Moon, and the stars,even all the host of Heaven, shouldest be driven to worship them, and served them" Deutoronomy 4:19
Why do you think all previous Gods before jesus had halos on their heads too? cause they symbolize the SUN.(the son of God). I know jesus doesn't have a halo but he had the crown of thorns which represents a sun.
If you'd notice all gods worship the sun, but of course it sounds insane to worship the Sun in the 20th Century..we're more sophisticated and civilized than that..
"And God made two great lights, The greater light(Sun) to rule the day and the lesser light(moon) to rule the night" Genesis 1:17
The moon represents the female Energy and the Sun the male energy which was ment to rule ALL. Jesus= "the light of the world"
Man invented Gods not only to give humans something to worship....but also something to fear... The goal is to control people with "fear" cause people can't be controled by force so they use the form of religion, which is an ingenious form of "mind control".
Now, present world leaders are trying to play Gods worshipping the "All seeing Eye"(aka $$$)Its all part of the Illuminati civilization..(you guys know what the trilateral commision is?).. Look at the back of the $1 dollar bill, at the left side, the pyramid with the EYE.
Now look at the banner under the pyramid, Do you people know what "NOVUS ORDO SECLORUM" means?
FYI, it means= NEW WORLD ORDER! its the new idea for the world, US senior president George Bush announced it(decades ago)..Why do you think is in the back of the dollar???
Anyways here's a question, Jesus said: "Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God"
when jesus said that, the "ONLY" word of GOD was the Old testament back then ..So now you guys are reading the New testament? How accurate can the New testament be? if there was no messiah after jesus..
here's something interesting about religion..The book of mormons says: "And there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people"
mormons believe that black people are the descendents of canaan, And that darkness was a curse that God gave them for the murder of Abel.. So if you ask me that sounds like a racist GOD.
Satan's greatest trick was convincing man he didn't exist.
You are so off base here. The book of Morman is a book written by a man based off of his interpretation of the Bible. There are many different theories of what the mark pf Cane was and the Bible does not say what the mark was and why people try to interpret it. The mark's purpose was to protect Cane from people wanting to mess with him or kill him. The author of the Book of Morman may be racist, but not God. You are writing about things you have heard or read, but you don't know what you are talking about. Mormans also believe that Jesus came over and taught in the Americas after he ascended into heaven. Basically the book of Morman is not at all consistant to what is in the Bible.
The pyramid on the back of the $1 is based on our founding fathers being Freemasons- and that the illumanati and new world order is based on something satanic
What you mention above about the Old Testament is way off.. your interpretation of the Bible needs work. The moon and the sun don't represent anything in those passages except what they are. In Deut. 4:19 our Moses words talking about how God created all these things and that He should be worshiped... I wish I had a Bible with me here so I could give you a better explaination. But you should be more careful w/ how you read the Bible.
One thing you are right about is the greatest feat by Satan is tricking people that he doesn't exist... which is like my reference to the Matrix. just keep reading your post... there are so many errors in it

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
rylan i believe you misread what i said i was quoting what someone else had said
my bad!

 

[clown boy]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
You are so off base here. The book of Morman is a book written by a man based off of his interpretation of the Bible. There are many different theories of what the mark pf Cane was and the Bible does not say what the mark was and why people try to interpret it. The mark's purpose was to protect Cane from people wanting to mess with him or kill him. The author of the Book of Morman may be racist, but not God. You are writing about things you have heard or read, but you don't know what you are talking about. Mormans also believe that Jesus came over and taught in the Americas after he ascended into heaven. Basically the book of Morman is not at all consistant to what is in the Bible.
The pyramid on the back of the $1 is based on our founding fathers being Freemasons- and that the illumanati and new world order is based on something satanic
What you mention above about the Old Testament is way off.. your interpretation of the Bible needs work. The moon and the sun don't represent anything in those passages except what they are. In Deut. 4:19 our Moses words talking about how God created all these things and that He should be worshiped... I wish I had a Bible with me here so I could give you a better explaination. But you should be more careful w/ how you read the Bible.
One thing you are right about is the greatest feat by Satan is tricking people that he doesn't exist... which is like my reference to the Matrix. just keep reading your post... there are so many errors in it

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
You are so off base here. The book of Morman is a book written by a man based off of his interpretation of the Bible. There are many different theories of what the mark pf Cane was and the Bible does not say what the mark was and why people try to interpret it. The mark's purpose was to protect Cane from people wanting to mess with him or kill him. The author of the Book of Morman may be racist, but not God. You are writing about things you have heard or read, but you don't know what you are talking about. Mormans also believe that Jesus came over and taught in the Americas after he ascended into heaven. Basically the book of Morman is not at all consistant to what is in the Bible.
The pyramid on the back of the $1 is based on our founding fathers being Freemasons- and that the illumanati and new world order is based on something satanic
What you mention above about the Old Testament is way off.. your interpretation of the Bible needs work. The moon and the sun don't represent anything in those passages except what they are. In Deut. 4:19 our Moses words talking about how God created all these things and that He should be worshiped... I wish I had a Bible with me here so I could give you a better explaination. But you should be more careful w/ how you read the Bible.
One thing you are right about is the greatest feat by Satan is tricking people that he doesn't exist... which is like my reference to the Matrix. just keep reading your post... there are so many errors in it
look God gave you the free will to believe what you want and whatever makes you comfortable...I have done plenty of research and not ONLY on the bible, so you may need to step off Christianity for a second and look up the facts..All books were written by Man..
About cane, i didn't interpreted it , a dedicated mormon said it..he may be wrong, that's why i don't believe in religion there's too many contradictions all over the place. how can you say that the author of mormon book could be racist when he should be a man speaking the true word of GOD (prophet). why would he or he's religion misguide people like that?
Now, if the illuminati and the new world order is something satanic, Why is it on the back of the dollar?? So that means that every person who loves the dollar is satanic? If not then you tell me what the NWO is..
So you're saying that there was NEW testament back in jesus time or that the OLD and NEW are exacly the same?
If you know the bible so well you should be able to give a good explanation without it. Now everything i have posted i can prove it goes all the way to ancient times..Now can you prove that anything in the bible is reality. i know is a great book, but is it real? what makes Christianity so perfect and superior then other religions?? just because you have been influenced by it and it seems perfect to you that doesn't make it.
Debunk me on this: The fact of the matter is that there was numerous messiahs way before jesus, do you even know about Mithra who had 12 deciples, was considered to be born by a virgin on Ded 25, also known as the "truth", "the way", "the shepperd" and "the ligh"," the redeemer", "the savoir", "the messiah", "The son of God" "sacrificial lamb for man kind"
and also said to be bread and wine, Also he did baptisms to take away "sins" of the child. He even had his principal festival on what was later to become "christian easter" at which time he was dead for 3 days and then resurected and that sacred day was Sunday.
Everything Christianity teaches comes from pagan beliefs that have existed 1000's of years before jesus was even born.
Like i said before, this messianic idea Originated in ancient Persia and that's where the Jewish and Christians concepts of savior came from..
The Orthodox Christian Hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version.
Virtually of all the elements of Christian worship is identical to the mithra.
Mithriasm is the Persian version of Christianity..

 

[rylan1]

People and so called men of God mislead people all the time... there are false prophets that claim to be preaching the Gospel but are doing the opposite..which is why it takes discernment when you follow a preacher or go to a church to see if they are actually men of God. All I have to say is "Cults"..
2nd point... not necessarily... but if you love the dollar more than you love God, or if the dollar is your god meaning that $$ is your idol, materialism, and that your life evolves around $ than yes its not of God and its part of the world which is Satan's playground basically...
3rd, Jesus was not born on Dec 25 he was born in spring, probably April or so... the reason why Christmas is celebrated during that time was to replace the pagon holiday of the winter solstice and it was that date because of convience and tradition.
4th ,here have been other prophets, but the one true Messiah is Jesus. If you read further about the subject. you'll find that there are similarities but historians have debunked that the 2 are related. Secondly, there were prophecies about a Messiah as you said 1000's of years before Jesus came, Jesus simply fulfilled the prophecy.
The New Testament came after Jesus and basically teaches the same ideas of the Old Testament, except with Jesus the same rules/practices are no longer necessary and are trumped by the blood of Jesus.
Christianity and the Bible are based on historic fact and evidence that can be found through archeology (spelling?) meaning we can find evidence outside of the Bible to support what it says...There is nothing else like it and it stands on a very strong base. If you look at all other religions there is no one like Jesus. If you measure what Jesus is compared to all other prophets, religious leaders/founders...etc... though they may be wise... they never lived a perfect/sinless life and had all the qualities of Jesus-- he is superior to all of them.

 

[aztec reef]

that's what everyone says about their religion. that their messiah is the Great one.. I'm not denying that jesus was a messiah a man of God, speaker of truth and so on. So were the other messiahs(suppousely)
asnwer this:IF jesus was really the Son of God,the superior one,who fullfilled the prophecies.. Why did he had to use the facts from previous beliefs from other messiahs in order to speak the truth..
If he was the real thing he could make his own prophecis, I don't think God needs ideas from anybody..So why would jesus follow man's ideas?
when God knows it all..it just doesn't make sense.. you would think that the Son of God would know infinity through God..Why is it that there's so much coincidences in previous messiahs? the bible isn't specia or uniquel! there's plenty more that are so similar..
I just think that jesus was another messiah, but i don't really think he was the son of God.. Even the bible talks about the Armagedon and the end of ages.. and that can be trace all the way to ancient times not just the bible.
Have you wonder why the Revelations is the last book of the bible? cause that the end of the earth's story. the tip of the piramid, the fullfilled conciousness of man-kind.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
that's what everyone says about their religion. that their messiah is the Great one.. I'm not denying that jesus was a messiah a man of God, speaker of truth and so on. So were the other messiahs(suppousely)
asnwer this:IF jesus was really the Son of God,the superior one,who fullfilled the prophecies.. Why did he had to use the facts from previous beliefs from other messiahs in order to speak the truth..
If he was the real thing he could make his own prophecis, I don't think God needs ideas from anybody..So why would jesus follow man's ideas?
when God knows it all..it just doesn't make sense.. you would think that the Son of God would know infinity through God..Why is it that there's so much coincidences in previous messiahs? the bible isn't specia or uniquel! there's plenty more that are so similar..
I just think that jesus was another messiah, but i don't really think he was the son of God.. Even the bible talks about the Armagedon and the end of ages.. and that can be trace all the way to ancient times not just the bible.
Have you wonder why the Revelations is the last book of the bible? cause that the end of the earth's story. the tip of the piramid, the fullfilled conciousness of man-kind.
Your assumptions of Christianity are so off base, I don't even know where to begin.
Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament...why would he need to make new prophecies?
Christianity doesn't profess that the book of Revelation talks about "Armageddon and the end of ages". Nowhere does Revelation state anything about the end of the world; that's just how some people interpret it. Some theories state that it was a prophesy of events in the early Church.
Also, the Catholic church has only interpreted a few passages in the bible. Anything else that you read on interpretations is some person's idea.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Your assumptions of Christianity are so off base, I don't even know where to begin.
Jesus fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament...why would he need to make new prophecies?
Christianity doesn't profess that the book of Revelation talks about "Armageddon and the end of ages". Nowhere does Revelation state anything about the end of the world; that's just how some people interpret it. Some theories state that it was a prophesy of events in the early Church.
Also, the Catholic church has only interpreted a few passages in the bible. Anything else that you read on interpretations is some person's idea.
Have you even read the bible before? do you know what revelations talk about?
NO, Why would jesus need to fulfill prophecies from and old book and not make his own..Does he really need the helping hand of some supposely prophets?
That would mean that jesus was inspired by Man, So the bible are mostly man's words nnot jesus. right?
That's like saying i'm going to make my own bible, but i will use the previous man-kind prophecies as a guideline..
FYI: revelations is a.k.a the apocalypse of john. to reveal the END.hurracanes,tornados,war,terrorism,disregard for human life,drough ect.ect. and GOD said "when you see this signs,behold" .Do you know about the 4 horseman and what they mean?
"And there went another horse that was red and power was given to him that sat thereon to take piece from the EARTH, and that they should kill one another:and there was given unto him a great sword"
"And i behold when he had opened the six seal,and lo, there was a great earthquake:and the SUN became black as sackeloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,and the stars of heaven fell unto earth,even as a fig tree castelth her untimetly figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind"..
that sounds like the ending to me!