There is no such thing as good versus evil

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
....
Mithriasm is the Persian version of Christianity..
Aztec, Aztec, Aztec....

Now, to discuss "mithraism".
The god Mithra has been around for a while. He first appears around the 1400BC mark in modern day Iran (Persia). HOWEVER, there is no direct link between the worship of Mithra in Persia and the same named Mithra in Rome. What you have done is conveniently mix the two deities. In fact, a cursory study of the two deities shows profound differences. In essence, these two religions, aside from having the same name, have no other similarities. This is important as you can't say Mithra worship, in the Roman form, is older than the teachings of Christ. They are not. Mithraism gained prominence in Western Culture as one of the "mystery" cults after the death of Christ AD.
Now, to the similarities you subscribe to: Keep in mind that these details are Roman, and date somewhere around the 100AD mark. In other words, if one religion copied another it would have to be opposite of what you proposed.
*Mithra was actually born out of a rock, not a virgin. Also an important detail is that he was born as an adult, not a baby.
*Shepards were present and did attend him. A complicated side-note is that Mithras was supposed to be born before the creation of man. I'm not well versed enough in the mystery cults to explain this apparent contradiction.
The Persian version of Mithra's birth is more detailed, but involves being born from a goddess (not a virgin)
*December 25th is a non-issue. As pointed out the Bible story makes it clear Jesus was not born in December. Furthermore, the correct date of Mithra's birth is actually December 21. Pesky Calendar errors...
*I can find absolutely no scholarly evidence of 12 disciples of Mithra; Either the Roman or Persian version. This appears to be more of an internet "fact" brought about by the fact that an early picture of Mithra worship had 12 figures dressed as zodiac symbols. Again, however, the picture is AD.
*Mithra was known as the "Mediator". I'm not aware of any early writing calling him anything else. Can you provide a source? (Pre Christ source would be best obviously...)
*Mithra did not compare himself to be "Bread and wine". That was Zarathustra.
*Mithra did not die as a sacrifice. He killed the Great Bull
*Mithra did not die and come back after 3 days.
*I can't find anything on Mithra and Baptism. Again, however, as the jews has the ritual of baptism and it was in practice at the time of Christ it's not hard to imagine other religions had similar.
Hope that helps clear the discussion.

 

[hattrick58]

That word "inherent". It's a good word, isn't it?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Have you even read the bible before? do you know what revelations talk about?
NO, Why would jesus need to fulfill prophecies from and old book and not make his own..Does he really need the helping hand of some supposely prophets?
That would mean that jesus was inspired by Man, So the bible are mostly man's words nnot jesus. right?
That's like saying i'm going to make my own bible, but i will use the previous man-kind prophecies as a guideline..
FYI: revelations is a.k.a the apocalypse of john. to reveal the END.hurracanes,tornados,war,terrorism,disregard for human life,drough ect.ect. and GOD said "when you see this signs,behold" .Do you know about the 4 horseman and what they mean?
"And there went another horse that was red and power was given to him that sat thereon to take piece from the EARTH, and that they should kill one another:and there was given unto him a great sword"
"And i behold when he had opened the six seal,and lo, there was a great earthquake:and the SUN became black as sackeloth of hair, and the moon became as blood,and the stars of heaven fell unto earth,even as a pig tree castelth her untimetly figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind"..
that sounds like the ending to me!
You've been reading too many Sci-Fi books.

Revelations is the least understood book of the Bible. Christianity does not profess that it describes the end of the world. A better explanation, as I stated earlier, is that it described some of the times in the early history of the Church.
And the prophecies in the Old Testament were there to prove that Jesus was the true Messiah. Why would Jesus make new prophecies?? He did not come to tell the future, he came to save our souls and create the Church!

 

[aztec reef]

This isn't about mithra, its about all the other messiahs way before jesus. with such similaries.
Also i didn't say that mithra was from rome... I really don't see your point cause Christianity derrives from the egyptian religion of Horus(the Sun of God)..Christianity is a Hybrid of the Egyptian religion made by the romans.
Do you even know the Zodiac Constellations? there's your 12 deciples..
maybe you should re-read the tread.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darknes
You've been reading too many Sci-Fi books.

Revelations is the least understood book of the Bible. Christianity does not profess that it describes the end of the world. A better explanation, as I stated earlier, is that it described some of the times in the early history of the Church.
And the prophecies in the Old Testament were there to prove that Jesus was the true Messiah. Why would Jesus make new prophecies?? He did not come to tell the future, he came to save our souls and create the Church!
the bible seems more of a fantasy then reality..I need proof please..
So that means that the Old testament was written by previous GODS ok..i get it! that why jesus didn't make new prophecies..lol
Ok, show me prove that jesus existed and we'll go from there..

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
This isn't about mithra, its about all the other messiahs way before jesus. with such similaries.
Also i didn't say that mithra was from rome... I really don't see your point cause Christianity derrives from the egyptian religion of Horus(the Sun of God)..Christianity is a Hybrid of the Egyptian religion made by the romans.
Do you even know the Zodiac Constellations? there's your 12 deciples..
maybe you should re-read the tread.

Originally Posted by aztec reef
Everything Christianity teaches comes from pagan beliefs that have existed 1000's of years before jesus was even born.
Like i said before, this messianic idea Originated in ancient Persia and that's where the Jewish and Christians concepts of savior came from..
The Orthodox Christian Hierarchy is nearly identical to the Mithraic version.
Virtually of all the elements of Christian worship is identical to the mithra.
Mithriasm is the Persian version of Christianity..
You do realize you're the one that brought Mithra into this. You said, in bold print, Mithraism is the Persian version of Christianity.
As for the twelve disciples, you realize there is a lot of non-Biblical evidence that they existed, right?

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
You do realize you're the one that brought Mithra into this. You said, in bold print, Mithraism is the Persian version of Christianity.

Mithra was a silmilar GOD to jesus . And yes it is the persian version of Christianity but that does NOT mean its roman like Christianity. And yes the romans got the ideas from ancient persia, thus developed Christianity from it..

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
the bible seems more of a fantasy then reality..I need proof please..
So that means that the Old testament was written by previous GODS ok..i get it! that why jesus didn't make new prophecies..lol
Ok, show me prove that jesus existed and we'll go from there..
Lol, how?? His body ascended into heaven.
Can you prove anyone existed? Can you prove to me Caesar Augustus existed? Do you still believe he existed?
Very few things can be scientifically proven besides the laws of physics.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Its called a silmilar religion. And yes it is the persian version of Christianity but that does NOT mean its roman like Christianity. And yes the romans got the ideas from ancient persia, thus developed Christianity..
Wrong. Re-read what I posted.
The Mithra version you talked about, with all the similarities, came about AFTER Christianity, not BEFORE. The Persian Mithra was very different from Christ.

 

[aztec reef]

Originally Posted by Darknes
Lol, how?? His body ascended into heaven.
Can you prove anyone existed? Can you prove to me Caesar Augustus existed? Do you still believe he existed?
Very few things can be scientifically proven besides the laws of physics.
See, that's why its a fairy tale, untill you show me prove then i'll believe it.
I believe more in UFO's then jesus. And physics can explain this, but it can't explane jesus was the Son of God or that he even existed. So as far as i'm concerned he was just another messiah..like Horus from Egypt, and like quetzalcoatl of the mayans..
at least there's hieroglyphics.. I can prove the previous GODS with hieroglyphics and stone sculptures. Can you show me hieroglyphics of jesus please.. Anyone can paint a GOD in their own image.. so paintings don't count..I want phisical proof.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
See, that's why its a fairy tale, untill you show me prove then i'll believe it.
I believe more in UFO's then jesus. And physics can explain this, but it can't explane jesus was the Son of God or that he even existed. So as far as i'm concerned he was just another messiah..like Horus from Egypt, and like quetzalcoatl of the mayans..
at least there's hieroglyphics.. I can prove the previous GODS with hieroglyphics and stone sculptures. Can you show me hieroglyphics of jesus please.. Anyone can paint a GOD in their own image.. so paintings don't count..I want phisical proof.

Do you realize how silly you sound? Think things through before you type.
I won't even go into UFO's because physics can't explain their "technology" and "travel at lightspeed".
Lol, how in your mind do hieroglyphics and statues prove to you ancient "gods" whereas the bible and statues of Jesus don't prove him??? I don't quite see the difference.

 

[jovial]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Mithra was a silmilar GOD to jesus . And yes it is the persian version of Christianity but that does NOT mean its roman like Christianity. And yes the romans got the ideas from ancient persia, thus developed Christianity from it..
Christ was Roman?

 

[nigerbang]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
See, that's why its a fairy tale, untill you show me prove then i'll believe it.
I believe more in UFO's then jesus. And physics can explain this, but it can't explane jesus was the Son of God or that he even existed. So as far as i'm concerned he was just another messiah..like Horus from Egypt, and like quetzalcoatl of the mayans..
at least there's hieroglyphics.. I can prove the previous GODS with hieroglyphics and stone sculptures. Can you show me hieroglyphics of jesus please.. Anyone can paint a GOD in their own image.. so paintings don't count..I want phisical proof.
Paintings dont count....yet hieroglyphics are paintings of the time..Stone sculptures...I have seen tons of statues of Jesus..I guess thats not good enough though..Same thing though..
"The original form of Horus was probably that of a sky god, known as "lord of the sky".
"The early Pyramid Texts specifically refer to him in solar terms as "god of the east"
"As Horakhty (Harakhty), or "Horus of the two horizons", Horus was the god of the rising and setting sun, but more particularly the god of the east and the sunrise."
Out off all the "Gods" he was I am not sure which one he was..Neither is Egypt

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
See, that's why its a fairy tale, untill you show me prove then i'll believe it.
I believe more in UFO's then jesus. And physics can explain this, but it can't explane jesus was the Son of God or that he even existed. So as far as i'm concerned he was just another messiah..like Horus from Egypt, and like quetzalcoatl of the mayans..
at least there's hieroglyphics.. I can prove the previous GODS with hieroglyphics and stone sculptures. Can you show me hieroglyphics of jesus please.. Anyone can paint a GOD in their own image.. so paintings don't count..I want phisical proof.
I've missed alot... 1st the Christian religion cannot be compared to Egyptian religion because egyptian religion had many gods. Jesus as the Light of the World has no reference to the sun... it means that He is the Truth...and is the way out of darkness or evil.
As I stated before...it is a historical fact that Jesus existed here on Earth. These facts can be supported outside the Bible, just like others from the Bible such as the kings in the Bible, prophets such as Moses, etc... There is actual proof that Pontius Pilot and the priest that condemed Jesus existed. Jesus is not a myth and His existence can be found through archeology. As for UFO's there is no crediable proof that those exist. The paintings that you see of Jesus are not really Him, He is not blue eyed and blond haired. But these things really have no significance.
The question for you is what is a messiah? These other religions that you mention and say they have messiahs, are they really. A true Messiah is a savior of all of humanity...as we are saved by His Blood... but the prophecy is yet to be fullfilled and it will be once He comes back. If you go back to the book of Exodus and research Egyptian history, the pharoh said that the God of the Hebrews was greater than their gods. All they were was idols. As for God there is physical proof of His existence, but the question is are you willing to open your eyes to see who God really is. I think people want to deny that God exists because they want to show that they are incontrol of their lives and only they influence it. God can be seen in all things, but people want to give other possiblities or explanations for this...that things just happen...

 

[clown boy]

Good read.
http://www.bibletruths.org/salvation/wordgod.html
If you have questions about anything else, I can provide you with articles for them...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Good read.
http://www.bibletruths.org/salvation/wordgod.html
If you have questions about anything else, I can provide you with articles for them...
nice link

I would like to get back to the orginal thread and the topic of Good and Evil. There is definetely a spirtual world out there that is unseen... What are peoples thoughts about angels and demons?

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
nice link

I would like to get back to the orginal thread and the topic of Good and Evil. There is definetely a spirtual world out there that is unseen... What are peoples thoughts about angels and demons?
The only angels and demons are in one's mind. There is no "real" evidence that they exist, and studies only every seem to indicate that it's in a person's head. In my opinion, as quoted before:
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything." - Buddha

 

[clown boy]

Scientists have discovered that there is another realm.

 

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by Clown Boy
Scientists have discovered that there is another realm.
I haven't heard of this, got a link? And is this "Bush-cronie" scientists or real scientists?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by m0nk
The only angels and demons are in one's mind. There is no "real" evidence that they exist, and studies only every seem to indicate that it's in a person's head. In my opinion, as quoted before:
"All that we are is the result of what we have thought. The mind is everything." - Buddha
I think that it is more to it than that and that there are things that occur outside of our thoughts and things that we fully can't comprehend. I think that that statement is more consistant to the idea that positive thought or what you think is what you will become. But isn't there evidence of supernatural occurances. I don't understand why something needs to be measured to proove its existence.