There is no such thing as good versus evil

[m0nk]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
I think that it is more to it than that and that there are things that occur outside of our thoughts and things that we fully can't comprehend. I think that that statement is more consistant to the idea that positive thought or what you think is what you will become. But isn't there evidence of supernatural occurances. I don't understand why something needs to be measured to proove its existence.
Dunno about that. I've always had some interest in the paranormal, but I've seen Ghost Hunters quite a few times and they never seem to have compelling evidence.

 

[jmick]

I've missed alot... 1st the Christian religion cannot be compared to Egyptian religion because egyptian religion had many gods. Jesus as the Light of the World has no reference to the sun... it means that He is the Truth...and is the way out of darkness or evil.
As I stated before...it is a historical fact that Jesus existed here on Earth. These facts can be supported outside the Bible, just like others from the Bible such as the kings in the Bible, prophets such as Moses, etc... There is actual proof that Pontius Pilot and the priest that condemed Jesus existed.QUOTE]
I would like to see records from the time he was said to have lived that mention Jesus, from what I have read there are none. I believe there are NO contempory Roman records that show that Pontius Pilate executed anyone named Jesus. All the documents that mention Jesus were written after his life by unknown authors or by people by who had never met him. So, we have no eye witness accounts of him and if I am not mistaken, the Romans of the time were educated and most likely would have made some mention of the man and I'd guess the Jews would have as well. Don't bring the writing of Josephus Flavious into this either, he was born well after the crucifixion of Jesus which would make his writings hearsay at best.

 

[rylan1]

The authors are not unknown, and they the diciples had 1st hand eye witness accounts such as Luke, John, Mark..etc.
Pontius Pilot- 1st many historians argued that Jesus and the story of the Resurrection was untrue because there was no historical evidence of Pontius.. but evidence has been found with his name in archeology and prooves he was the govenor of Israel during the 1st century AD..
But what evidence do you need because there is overwhelming evidence for the existence of Jesus Christ, both in secular and Biblical history.The first-century Roman Tacitus, who is considered one of the more accurate historians of the ancient world, mentioned superstitious "Christians " ("named after Christus" which is Latin for Christ), who suffered under Pontius Pilate during the reign of Tiberius. Suetonius, chief secretary to Emperor Hadrian, wrote that there was a man named Chrestus (or Christ) who lived during the first century (Annals 15.44 ).
Writings less than 200 years after events took place are considered very reliable evidences. Further, the vast majority of scholars (Christian and non-Christian) will grant that the Epistles of Paul (at least some of them) were in fact written by Paul in the middle of the first century A.D., less than 40 years after Jesus' death. In terms of ancient manuscript evidence, this is extraordinarily strong proof of the existence of a man named Jesus in Israel in the early first century A.D.
It is also important to recognize that in 70 A.D., the Romans invaded and destroyed Jerusalem and most of Israel, slaughtering its inhabitants. Entire cities were literally burned to the ground! We should not be surprised, then, if much evidence of Jesus' existence was destroyed. Many of the eye-witnesses of Jesus would have been killed. These facts likely limited the amount of surviving eyewitness testimony of Jesus.
Here are some non christian sources:
Julius Africanus
Thallus
Pliny the Younger
The Babylonian Talmud
Lucian of Samosata
Tacitus
Flavius Josephus
Other Religions such as Judism and Islam also acknowledge that He existed.
Several historians wrote that there was a mysterious total eclipse of the sun--during a full moon--when Jesus was crucified. As many people know, it is impossible for an eclipse of the sun to occur during a full moon, yet this event was supported by more than one writer. This is astonishing evidence that something supernatural took place that day

 

[aztec reef]

all i have to say, read the Kabbalah. Which talks about the "Tree of life". its an ancient scripture that came from babylon and Ancient Egypt from the time of the farrows..and it even talks about modern Quantum Physiscs.. how could ancients know modern Quantum Physics?
"it is a historical fact that Jesus existed here on Earth"
oh, really? are you talking about the holy grail?
I think jesus was just another Solar messiah.. Don't get confused here cause i believe in God but not jesus.. Jesus was made up so that civilazions would worship a supposly incarnated God. Or son of god or "God of Sun"..
Doesn't jesus say, "I and my father are one" John 10:30
It sounds alot better in present day to worship a Human species God(like us) then to worship an alien or the Sun..

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
all i have to say, read the Kabbalah. Which talks about the "Tree of life". its an ancient scripture that came from babylon and Ancient Egypt from the time of the farrows..and it even talks about modern Quantum Physiscs.. how could ancients know modern Quantum Physics?
"it is a historical fact that Jesus existed here on Earth"
oh, really? are you talking about the holy grail?
I think jesus was just another Solar messiah.. Don't get confused here cause i believe in God but not jesus.. Jesus was made up so that civilazions would worship a supposly incarnated God. Or son of god or "God of Sun"..
Doesn't jesus say, "I and my father are one" John 10:30
3 errors to avoid
a. Don’t come to a conclusion at the price of a proper interpretation. Don’t make the bible say what you want it to say. Don’t read preconceived ideas into a given passage of scripture.
b. Avoid superficial interpretation. What does it mean, not what does it mean to me? Avoid clumsy handling of the scripture. 1 Tim 5:17
c. Avoid spiritualizing the bible. Spiritualizing the bible is the idea that what is hidden is the actual meaning not what is on the surface.
Exegesis not Eisegesis The word exegesis means "to draw the meaning out of" a given text. Exegesis may be contrasted with eisegesis, which means to read one's own interpretation into a given text
As I said there is historical fact that Jesus existed here on Earth by many different non christian sources... Your concept of God and Jesus is highly inaccurate. If you really seek the truth, I would advise the above.

 

[clown boy]

The bible is full of Scientific facts that were written before Scientists ever figured them out.
1. The Shape of the Earth
1. "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in" (Isaiah 40:22, NIV).
1. This may or may not be construed to support the spherical shape of the earth. The horizon is a circle and a circle is flat.
2. The Earth is suspended in nothing
1. "He spreads out the northern[skies] over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing,"(Job. 26:7, NIV).
1. This is particularly interesting, considering that the cosmology of other cultures at that time did not have the earth suspended in nothing, but rather upon pillars, or people, or animals.
3. The Stars are Innumerable
1. "He took him outside and said, 'Look up at the heavens and count the stars -- if indeed you can count them.' Then he said to him, 'So shall your offspring be'" (Gen. 15:5, NIV).
4. The Existence of Valleys in the Seas
1. "The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils" (2 Sam. 22:16, NIV).
5. The Existence of Springs and Fountains in the Seas
1. "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the second month -- on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and the floodgates of the heavens were opened" (Genesis 7:11, NIV). See also Gen. 8:2; Prov. 8:28.
6. The Existence of Water Paths (Ocean Currents) in the Seas
1. "O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!...When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,...You made him [man] ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet...the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas" (Psalm 8:1,3,6,8, NIV).
7. The Hydrologic Cycle
1. "He wraps up the waters in his clouds, yet the clouds do not burst under their weight" (Job. 26:8, NIV).
2. "He draws up the drops of water, which distill as rain to the streams; the clouds pour down their moisture and abundant showers fall on mankind" (Job. 36:27-28, NIV)
3. "The wind blows to the south and turns to the north; round and round it goes, ever returning on its course. All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again" (Ecclesiastes 1:6-7, NIV).
8. The Concept of Entropy
1. "In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded" (Psalm 102:22-26, NIV).
9. The Nature of Health, Sanitation, and Sickness
1. The listing for this section is too large for this page. But the scriptural references are Leviticus 12-14.
Reference: http://www.carm.org/bible/ms_science.htm

 

[aztec reef]

Rylan & Clownboy You're entitle to your own opinions..but you need help!
here's the Truth!!!
There's an upper force that we live in, we are the Egolistic part of it that is opposite to it. Our Ego has evolved for the last 1000's of years in this planet. At the END of this development you would reach a state(of mind) that we should meet with this other force.(the upper force)
This upper force is totally Good, Caring,Giving ect. ect.. and this Great force created us opposite to itself as "egoists" in order that the ego would develop in us to a point where we can reveal that our Nature is destructive..And that there's nothing worse than it!. And that we would want to brake out of this egocentric state of mind and we would want to become like it(the upper force).
We are ONE soul, One egoistical desire that was created by the upper one as one desire, "the desire to enjoy" And we were shattered by millions of parts called individual souls, and they are what developes this whole process.
We need to correct ourselfs and become like the creator, And that means that we must unify together..
really, In the Egotistical manner which we're devided, we hate one another, And our correction is to be the opposite.. As we should see that our EGO is destructive and we would want to connect back together.
Our choice is wether to evolve one way or the other. In all of the development of Humanity until this time was without any freedom of choice, People were simply carring out what the Ego told them to do.
EGO=DNA
People Now such as myself have the desire that is for something beyond this world, We can't fullfill our selfs with anything that we can find in this world. So i ask my self, Why do I exist? I have the freedom of choice either to continue the path of suffering like it has always been before or I can evolve towards the goal that is calling me.
When Humans reach the Immense destructive Ego of our times, (that's already starting to show) You'll see how bad it is!!
There are two ways to deal with it:
First, To evolve either through the beatings that we receive, which is basiclly how people live their lifes now, they run away from suffering all the time. where do you run to? well, Anywhere! as long as it is away from whatever is hurting you! right? or you could reveal the form/goal by the method of kabala scriptures, And you develop on that in order to attrack to your development..
First way:is the past of evolution and that's called the path of suffering..
Second way:is the "path of Light" The path of Spiritual development..The higher state of mind..the tip of the pyramid, the revelation, the end of the human -kind chapter..
The minute You discover the "wisdom" You'll find your more corrected and more advanced state of mind. Whenever that happends to you, You'll eventually be drawn to more advance stages..
I suggest you read the Kabala, there's many versions..a good one is: The book of Zohar. Do that and you won't need any kind of affliction cause you'll be drawn to more advance stages..
As for scientists, they all read the kabala, even Albert Eistein (who was a jewish) read it..
"The bible is full of Scientific facts that were written before Scientists ever figured them out".
Clownboy, yeah I know, the Ancients figured out all the science (comunicating with the upper force) NOT the bible..nor jesus.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
The authors are not unknown, and they the diciples had 1st hand eye witness accounts such as Luke, John, Mark..etc.
Pontius Pilot- 1st many historians argued that Jesus and the story of the Resurrection was untrue because there was no historical evidence of Pontius.. but evidence has been found with his name in archeology and prooves he was the govenor of Israel during the 1st century AD..
I am sorry, what you gave is all hearsay. No has agrued about the existense of Pilot but you can not say because he did indeed exist that Jesus also did. After all, the historians of his time had mention of him in writting but none of Jesus...
This is by Jim Walker:
WHAT ABOUT WRITINGS DURING THE LIFE OF JESUS?
What appears most revealing of all, comes not from what got later written about Jesus but what people did not write about him. Consider that not a single historian, philosopher, scribe or follower who lived before or during the alleged time of Jesus ever mentions him!
If, indeed, the Gospels portray a historical look at the life of Jesus, then the one feature that stands out prominently within the stories shows that people claimed to know Jesus far and wide, not only by a great multitude of followers but by the great priests, the Roman governor Pilate, and Herod who claims that he had heard "of the fame of Jesus" (Matt 14:1)". One need only read Matt: 4:25 where it claims that "there followed him [Jesus] great multitudes of people from Galilee, and from Decapolis, and from Jersulaem, and from Judaea, and from beyond Jordon." The gospels mention, countless times, the great multitude that followed Jesus and crowds of people who congregated to hear him. So crowded had some of these gatherings grown, that Luke 12:1 alleges that an "innumberable multitude of people... trode one upon another." Luke 5:15 says that there grew "a fame abroad of him: and great multitudes came together to hear..." The persecution of Jesus in Jerusalem drew so much attention that all the chief priests and scribes, including the high priest Caiaphas, not only knew about him but helped in his alleged crucifixion. (see Matt 21:15-23, 26:3, Luke 19:47, 23:13). The multitude of people thought of Jesus, not only as a teacher and a miracle healer, but a prophet (see Matt:14:5).
So here we have the gospels portraying Jesus as famous far and wide, a prophet and healer, with great multitudes of people who knew about him, including the greatest Jewish high priests and the Roman authorities of the area, and not one person records his existence during his lifetime? If the poor, the rich, the rulers, the highest priests, and the scribes knew about Jesus, who would not have heard of him?
Then we have a particular astronomical event that would have attracted the attention of anyone interested in the "heavens." According to Luke 23:44-45, there occurred "about the sixth hour, and there was darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour, and the sun was darkened, and the veil of the temple was rent in the midst." Yet not a single mention of such a three hour ecliptic event got recorded by anyone, including the astronomers and astrologers, anywhere in the world, including Pliny the Elder and Seneca who both recorded eclipses from other dates. Note also that, for obvious reasons, eclipses can't occur during a full moon (passovers always occur during full moons), Nor does a single contemporary person write about the earthquake described in Matthew 27:51-54 where the earth shook, rocks ripped apart (rent), and graves opened.
Matthew 2 describes Herod and all of Jerusalem as troubled by the worship of the infant Jesus. Herod then had all of the children of Bethlehem slain. If such extraordinary infanticides of this magnitude had occurred, why didn't anyone write about it?
Some apologists attempt to dig themselves out of this problem by claiming that there lived no capable historians during that period, or due to the lack of education of the people with a writing capacity, or even sillier, the scarcity of paper gave reason why no one recorded their "savior." But the area in and surrounding Jerusalem served, in fact, as the center of education and record keeping for the Jewish people. The Romans, of course, also kept many records. Moreover, the gospels mention scribes many times, not only as followers of Jesus but the scribes connected with the high priests. And as for historians, there lived plenty at the time who had the capacity and capability to record, not only insignificant gossip, but significant events, especially from a religious sect who drew so much popular attention through an allegedly famous and infamous Jesus

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Here are some non christian sources:
Julius Africanus
Thallus
Pliny the Younger
The Babylonian Talmud
Lucian of Samosata
Tacitus
Flavius Josephus
Other Religions such as Judism and Islam also acknowledge that He existed.
Several historians wrote that there was a mysterious total eclipse of the sun--during a full moon--when Jesus was crucified. As many people know, it is impossible for an eclipse of the sun to occur during a full moon, yet this event was supported by more than one writer. This is astonishing evidence that something supernatural took place that day
NON-CHRISTIAN SOURCES
Virtually all other claims of Jesus come from sources outside of Christian writings. Devastating to the claims of Christians, however, comes from the fact that all of these accounts come from authors who lived after the alleged life of Jesus. Since they did not live during the time of the hypothetical Jesus, none of their accounts serve as eyewitness evidence.
Josephus Flavius, the Jewish historian, lived as the earliest non-Christian who mentions a Jesus. Although many scholars think that Josephus' short accounts of Jesus (in Antiquities) came from interpolations perpetrated by a later Church father (most likely, Eusebius), Josephus' birth in 37 C.E., well after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus, puts him out of range of an eyewitness account. Moreover, he wrote Antiquities in 93 C.E., after the first gospels got written! Therefore, even if his accounts about Jesus came from his hand, his information could only serve as hearsay.
Pliny the Younger, a Roman official, got born in 62 C.E. His letter about the Christians only shows that he got his information from Christian believers themselves. Regardless, his birth date puts him out of the range of eyewitness accounts.
Tacitus, the Roman historian's birth year at 64 C.E., puts him well after the alleged life of Jesus. He gives a brief mention of a "Christus" in his Annals (Book XV, Sec. 44), which got written around 109 C.E. He gives no source for his material. Although many have disputed the authenticity of Tacitus' mention of Jesus, the very fact that his birth happened after the alleged Jesus and wrote the Annals during the formation of Christianity, shows that his writing can only provide us with hearsay accounts.
Suetonius, a Roman historian, born in 69 C.E. mentions a "Chrestus," a common name. Apologists assume that "Chrestus" means "Christ" (a disputable claim). But even if Seutonius had meant "Christ," it still says nothing about an earthly Jesus. Just like all the others, Suetonius' birth occurred well after the purported Jesus. Again, only hearsay.
Talmud: Amazingly some Christians use brief portions of the Talmud, (a collection of Jewish civil a religious law, including commentaries on the Torah), as evidence for Jesus. They claim that Yeshu (a common name in Jewish literature) in the Talmud refers to Jesus. However, this Jesus, according to Gerald Massey actually depicts a disciple of Jehoshua Ben-Perachia at least a century before the alleged Christian Jesus. [Massey] Regardless of how one interprets this, the Palestinian Talmud got written between the 3rd and 5th century C.E., and the Babylonian Talmud between the 3rd and 6th century C.E., at least two centuries after the alleged crucifixion! At best it can only serve as a controversial Christian and pagan legend; it cannot possibly serve as evidence for a historical Jesus.
The above sources get quoted the most as "evidence" for Jesus by Christians. All other sources (Christian and non-Christian), some of which include: Mara Bar-Serapion (cira 73 C.E.), Ignatius (50 - 98? C.E.), Polycarp (69 - 155 C.E.), Clement of Rome (? - cira 160 C.E.), Justin Martyr (100 - 165 C.E.), Lucian (circa 125 - 180 C.E.), Tertullian (160 - ? C.E.), Clement of Alexandria (? - 215 C.E.), Origen (185 - 232 C.E.), Hippolytus (? - 236 C.E.), and Cyprian (? - 254 C.E.). All these people got born well after the alleged death of Jesus. Not one of them provides an eyewitness account, all of them simply spout hearsay.
As you can see, apologist Christians embarrass themselves when they unwittingly or deceptively violate the rules of historiography by using after-the-event writings as evidence for the event itself. Not one of these writers gives a source or backs up his claims with evidential material about Jesus. Although we can provide numerous reasons why the Christian and non-Christian sources prove spurious, and argue endlessly about them, we can cut to the chase by simply looking at the dates of the documents and the birth dates of the authors.

 

[rylan1]

So let me understand this...are you now saying (denying) that Jesus ever existed? Are you saying that all these people are wrong? There are several sources mentioned, there is historical evidence that tells about the events (earthquakes, eclipse) that occured after the cruxifiction. I also mentioned that Jerulselm was destroyed and burned in 70AD and that many documents were destroyed. But if you take all the evidence that is out there and weigh it, the most educated answer or conclusion that can be formulated is that He did exist. But if you read the contents of the Bible and the characters of the Bible, you can come to the conclusion that they are real people, real kingdoms, real battles, etc, etc....How can you question the existence of Jesus if you accept the characters around him such as Caphis and Pilot? Your arguement is not based on history because the evidence is there, the conclusion that you've made is simply a denial on your part to accept was is true. Now even if you do accept that he lived on Earth or if you find more credible proof such as a photograph, you'll continue to try to find ways to discredit Him. You say that all Christians have is heresay, but what do you have? Are there documents from this time that say he never existed?
Another nonchristian source are the gnostics...
There are eyewitness accounts in the Bible also, you argue that because these people are christians that there story is not crediable, IMO if I was a non-christian and witnessed these things I would be a christian...
This arguement is a lame one and all historical evidence points to its validity.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Aztec Reef
Rylan & Clownboy You're entitle to your own opinions..but you need help!
here's the Truth!!!
There's an upper force that we live in, we are the Egolistic part of it that is opposite to it. Our Ego has evolved for the last 1000's of years in this planet. At the END of this development you would reach a state(of mind) that we should meet with this other force.(the upper force)
This upper force is totally Good, Caring,Giving ect. ect.. and this Great force created us opposite to itself as "egoists" in order that the ego would develop in us to a point where we can reveal that our Nature is destructive..And that there's nothing worse than it!. And that we would want to brake out of this egocentric state of mind and we would want to become like it(the upper force).
We are ONE soul, One egoistical desire that was created by the upper one as one desire, "the desire to enjoy" And we were shattered by millions of parts called individual souls, and they are what developes this whole process.
We need to correct ourselfs and become like the creator, And that means that we must unify together..
really, In the Egotistical manner which we're devided, we hate one another, And our correction is to be the opposite.. As we should see that our EGO is destructive and we would want to connect back together.
Our choice is wether to evolve one way or the other. In all of the development of Humanity until this time was without any freedom of choice, People were simply carring out what the Ego told them to do.
EGO=DNA
People Now such as myself have the desire that is for something beyond this world, We can't fullfill our selfs with anything that we can find in this world. So i ask my self, Why do I exist? I have the freedom of choice either to continue the path of suffering like it has always been before or I can evolve towards the goal that is calling me.
When Humans reach the Immense destructive Ego of our times, (that's already starting to show) You'll see how bad it is!!
There are two ways to deal with it:
First, To evolve either through the beatings that we receive, which is basiclly how people live their lifes now, they run away from suffering all the time. where do you run to? well, Anywhere! as long as it is away from whatever is hurting you! right? or you could reveal the form/goal by the method of kabala scriptures, And you develop on that in order to attrack to your development..
First way:is the past of evolution and that's called the path of suffering..
Second way:is the "path of Light" The path of Spiritual development..The higher state of mind..the tip of the pyramid, the revelation, the end of the human -kind chapter..
The minute You discover the "wisdom" You'll find your more corrected and more advanced state of mind. Whenever that happends to you, You'll eventually be drawn to more advance stages..
I suggest you read the Kabala, there's many versions..a good one is: The book of Zohar. Do that and you won't need any kind of affliction cause you'll be drawn to more advance stages..
As for scientists, they all read the kabala, even Albert Eistein (who was a jewish) read it..
"The bible is full of Scientific facts that were written before Scientists ever figured them out".
Clownboy, yeah I know, the Ancients figured out all the science (comunicating with the upper force) NOT the bible..nor jesus.

you believe this?
Why? All this is saying is that we need to be balanced?
EGO=DNA... with all do respect, this notion seems silly to me. It sound like Froidian (spelling?) psycobabal.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
So let me understand this...are you now saying (denying) that Jesus ever existed? Are you saying that all these people are wrong? There are several sources mentioned, there is historical evidence that tells about the events (earthquakes, eclipse) that occured after the cruxifiction. I also mentioned that Jerulselm was destroyed and burned in 70AD and that many documents were destroyed. But if you take all the evidence that is out there and weigh it, the most educated answer or conclusion that can be formulated is that He did exist. But if you read the contents of the Bible and the characters of the Bible, you can come to the conclusion that they are real people, real kingdoms, real battles, etc, etc....How can you question the existence of Jesus if you accept the characters around him such as Caphis and Pilot? Your arguement is not based on history because the evidence is there, the conclusion that you've made is simply a denial on your part to accept was is true. Now even if you do accept that he lived on Earth or if you find more credible proof such as a photograph, you'll continue to try to find ways to discredit Him. You say that all Christians have is heresay, but what do you have? Are there documents from this time that say he never existed?
Another nonchristian source are the gnostics...
There are eyewitness accounts in the Bible also, you argue that because these people are christians that there story is not crediable, IMO if I was a non-christian and witnessed these things I would be a christian...
This arguement is a lame one and all historical evidence points to its validity.
Please come up with one historical writing or mention that dates to the TIME HE LIVED, not AFTER. You can not, every thing written about Jesus was by people who were born after he died and is HEARSAY (do you know what HEARSAY means)? I think it is plausable that a man named Jesus did live but he was not the son of god and did not perform the great acts he was reported to. Why do I say this? If he did, then there would have been many writings about it in the annuals of history that date to the time he did them, not after. He was reported to have a vast following, don't you think that there would be many people able to write about his "miracles" and write they would. As to the earthquake and Eclipse you mention, there are NO reports of them taking place at the time where were supposed to have happened, all of these events were written about long after they occured, odd isn't it?
"If we have a coupling with historical people and locations, then we should also have some historical reference of a Jesus to these locations and people. But just the opposite proves the case. The Bible depicts Herod, the Ruler of Jewish Palestine under Rome as sending out men to search and kill the infant Jesus, yet nothing in history supports such a story. Pontius Pilate supposedly performed as judge in the trial and execution of Jesus, yet no Roman record mentions such a trial. The gospels portray a multitude of believers throughout the land spreading tales of a teacher, prophet, and healer, yet nobody in Jesus' life time or several decades after, ever records such a human figure. The lack of a historical Jesus in the known historical record speaks for itself."J Walker.

 

[jmick]

Consider this....
"IF JESUS, THEN WHY NOT HERCULES?
If a person accepts hearsay and accounts from believers as historical evidence for Jesus, then shouldn't they act consistently to other accounts based solely on hearsay and belief?
To take one example, examine the evidence for the Hercules of Greek mythology and you will find it parallels the "historicity" of Jesus to such an amazing degree that for Christian apologists to deny Hercules as a historical person belies and contradicts the very same methodology used for a historical Jesus.
Note that Herculean myth resembles Jesus in many areas. Hercules got born as a human from the union of God (Zeus) and the mortal and chaste Alcmene, his mother. Similar to Herod who wanted to kill Jesus, Hera wanted to kill Hercules. Like Jesus, Hercules traveled the earth as a mortal helping mankind and performed miraculous deeds. Like Jesus who died and rose to heaven, Hercules died, rose to Mt. Olympus and became a god. Hercules gives example of perhaps the most popular hero in Ancient Greece and Rome. They believed that he actually lived, told stories about him, worshiped him, and dedicated temples to him.
Likewise the "evidence" of Hercules closely parallels that of Jesus. We have historical people like Hesiod and Plato who mentions Hercules. Similar to the way the gospels tell a narrative story of Jesus, so do we have the epic stories of Homer who depict the life of Hercules. Aesop tells stories and quotes the words of Hercules. Just as we have a brief mention of Jesus by Joesphus in his Antiquities, Joesphus also mentions Hercules (more times than Jesus), in the very same work (see: 1.15; 8.5.3; 10.11.1). Just as Tacitus mentions a Christus, so does he also mention Hercules many times in his Annals. And most importantly, just as we have no artifacts, writings or eyewitnesses about Hercules, we also have nothing about Jesus. All information about Hercules and Jesus comes from stories, beliefs, and hearsay. Should we then believe in a historical Hercules, simply because ancient historians mention him and that we have stories and beliefs about him? Of course not, and the same must apply to Jesus if we wish to hold any consistency to historicity." J. Walker

 

[earlybird]

jmick,
Great write up but are you sure "we also have nothing about Jesus"? Is Pontius Pilate only written about in the Bible? Surely there's got to be historical evidence from Rome's perspective about the trial? I dunno I could be wrong.

 

[groupergenius]

Been a long time since I went to Church, but from what I remember, the Bible teaches love and understanding. Love thy neighbor and stuff like that.
Don't recall anything about kill thy neighbor because they don't believe in God.
Just sayin'....

 

[rylan1]

Who is J Walker?
The Gospels are first hand accounts by people who walked,talked, and ate with Jesus.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by earlybird
jmick,
Great write up but are you sure "we also have nothing about Jesus"? Is Pontius Pilate only written about in the Bible? Surely there's got to be historical evidence from Rome's perspective about the trial? I dunno I could be wrong.
No, Pilate was a real man and he is in the annuals of history during the time he lived and after. There is nothing about the Trial of Jesus recorded in Roman Records. Truth be told, I would like to be proven wrong, I think it'd be amazing if he truly did exist as the man written about in the bible. I am looking for hard facts and dates and at this time there are none that record Jesus during the time he lived. Many of the places and events in the bible are true but they don't mean anything, you could easily plug any character in and write stories about him but without records that is all you have is a story.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
Who is J Walker?
The Gospels are first hand accounts by people who walked,talked, and ate with Jesus.
When were the Gospels written and who wrote them?

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by GrouperGenius
Been a long time since I went to Church, but from what I remember, the Bible teaches love and understanding. Love thy neighbor and stuff like that.
Don't recall anything about kill thy neighbor because they don't believe in God.
Just sayin'....

Who's saying that?
Nobody Here....

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by Jmick
No, Pilate was a real man and he is in the annuals of history during the time he lived and after. There is nothing about the Trial of Jesus recorded in Roman Records. Truth be told, I would like to be proven wrong, I think it'd be amazing if he truly did exist as the man written about in the bible. I am looking for hard facts and dates and at this time there are none that record Jesus during the time he lived. Many of the places and events in the bible are true but they don't mean anything, you could easily plug any character in and write stories about him but without records that is all you have is a story.
Josphesus happens to be leading historian on Pilot as well? Hmmm