Thinking About Taking The Plunge????

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
For the return pump I would suggest mag drives. I have been through more than a few return pumps and mag drive and capcom brands have been the only ones that have lasted.
If you want to run two 600 gph hang on overflows a mag 9.5 should do the trick. Overkill on the pump GPH wise is better than purchasing too weak a pump. If the pump is to much GPH for the overflows you can always rig a ball valve to direct some flow back to the sump.
To weak of a pump and you will find that the U tubes on the overflow will begin to collect air at the tops of the u tubes. This can lead to siphon break and this is your major concern as far as water on the floor. Otherwise these hang on overflows are 99 percent reliable and will function fine even with power disruptions.
On your return line from the pump drill a small hole in the pipe just under water level of your display. This is your siphon break (necessary in only the return line from pump) in case of power outage.
The overflow in the picture is fine. I would avoid the CPR brand which are more expensive and from what I hear much more prone to siphon break problems due to there reliance on a air lift pump to operate.
For start up have your hang ons plumbed and U tubes primed. Have sump filled to capacity. Turn on return pump. You will notice water level in sump fall some what. Make sure no air is trapped in U tubes and overflows are draining. If water level in DT starts to get high and looks like its going to come over edge of display turn off pump. This means return pump is to strong for overflows and you will have to rig up a ball valve to direct some of the flow back to sump rather than up to DT.
Hopefully this wont happen you will be good to go. Now just let system run and observe for a few minutes. Make sure U tubes have good siphon and any air bubbles are quickly drawen through and down to sump. If not your pump is to weak and air will collect in top of U tubes risking siphon break and water on floor.
Ok provided everything has gone well to this point take note of the water level in your sump. It should have fallen somewhat. Take a black marker and draw a line at this water level on the side of your sump. This is your top off point when adding water. Do not exceed it.
Now for the fun part. Simulate power outage by unplugging return pump. You should here the hole you drilled in your return line suck a little air. This is your siphon break working as planned. Now wait as overflows drain down to the level you have set your inside tank boxes to and then stop draining. The water level in your sump should have returned to capacity without coming over the edge.
If all went as planned your done. Plug return pump back in and sit down and enjoy your tank for awhile.
SWEAT!!!
THANK YOU VERY MUCH!!!

but were do i get the mag drive pump?
my email is imprts4evr@yhti.net

 

[turningtim]

Are my ears ringing?
What would you like to know? I will say I prefer a center pump design.
To calc the backwash area for a sump you need to figire what will come out of the DT. So if you drill an anti-siphon hole lets just say an inch below the water surface and what ever is in the pipes will drain to the sump.
So 75 gal is 48"Lx18"Dx20"H (?) = 17280 cubic inches / 231 (cubic inches in a gallon)= 74.8 gallons.
Now 48"x18"x 1" (backwash)=864 cubic inches/231=3.74 gals.
How many inches will you need in the sump to hold 4 gals of water?
Sump size= LxWxD?=4 gals x231.......
questions?
Tim

 

[turningtim]

another design to consider

 

[murph]

Here is a plumbing diagram of how to use ball valve to redirect some flow back to the sump. Rigging like this will allow you to purchase a pump that is actually to much for the overflows but can be regulated by adjusting the ball valve.
This will mean you can max the flow to your tank to however much your overflows can handle. You can also rig a hose fitting to the ball valve for water change days with a hose directed outside or to a bathtube. Then just open ball vavle and waste water will flow to disired location.

 

[turningtim]

couple of other Q's. what are you planning to keep? How much flow do you want 10x 20x? You want to try and max flow through the sump w/o overpowering it. To much flow through the sump will result in micro bubble in the DT.
You could also do a over the top closed loop for flow and reduce the need for power heads.

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
Are my ears ringing?
What would you like to know? I will say I prefer a center pump design.
To calc the backwash area for a sump you need to figire what will come out of the DT. So if you drill an anti-siphon hole lets just say an inch below the water surface and what ever is in the pipes will drain to the sump.
So 75 gal is 48"Lx18"Dx20"H (?) = 17280 cubic inches / 231 (cubic inches in a gallon)= 74.8 gallons.
Now 48"x18"x 1" (backwash)=864 cubic inches/231=3.74 gals.
How many inches will you need in the sump to hold 4 gals of water?
Sump size= LxWxD?=4 gals x231.......
questions?
Tim
is this right teach

the sump im looking at is(29 gallon) 30x12x18=6,480cu/in
so 30x12x4=1440cu/in
but im still not possitive on what you mean buy calculating sump size that i will need

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by Murph
Here is a plumbing diagram of how to use ball valve to redirect some flow back to the sump. Rigging like this will allow you to purchase a pump that is actually to much for the overflows but can be regulated by adjusting the ball valve.
This will mean you can max the flow to your tank to however much your overflows can handle. You can also rig a hose fitting to the ball valve for water change days with a hose directed outside or to a bathtube. Then just open ball vavle and waste water will flow to disired location.
good idea

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
couple of other Q's. what are you planning to keep? How much flow do you want 10x 20x? You want to try and max flow through the sump w/o overpowering it. To much flow through the sump will result in micro bubble in the DT.
You could also do a over the top closed loop for flow and reduce the need for power heads.
im planing on have soft corals dont know if i can keep any sps type in my type of tank?
i have some yellow polyps and xenia now
ordered me some real neat zoo frags an some brain coral is coming as well soon along with some gorgonians i just would like a sump to put more of a bio load of corals
and i have 2 clowns now getting 2 more and royal gramma and mandarin
now do you mean turnover in the sump?
also i would love to keep my turnover up in my DT its at like 28 right now (along with my hangon type refugium which im getting tired of )
i would love to get ride of some of my power heads!!!
as long as i can do it that is

 

[mrinelfrlz]

thanks to everyone for the help so far
i love this hobby!!!LOL

 

[mrinelfrlz]

by the way renogaw
if you dont mind i would like to use your plan on my sump
is that cool

here is a good pic

 

[mrinelfrlz]

now im going to shread up a few boxes to make a dummy tank to see if it will fit ok

 

[turningtim]

You may want to check and see if you can have the other 2 clowns. Not sure but in that size tank you may have problems with 4.
How long has this tank been up and running? A mandrin needs lots of LR and a good supply of pods to fed. If this is not a well established tank with a good food supply the mandrin will starve.
Whats the sand bed and how LR do you have? Lights?
Corals really don't add that much load. Its more a water chem thing, the more water in the system the better balance there will be and easier to keep the water in check.
For a 29 (30x12x18)
30 x 12 x y = 4 x 231
360y = 924
y = 924/360
y= 2.56
30 x 12 x 2.56 = 921.6/231 = 3.99 gals
So you need 2.56 min in the 29 for backwash.
What design are you using? flow through or center pump?
With what you have planned I would say that 20x (DT volume) is more than enough.
Are you sure you can get the 29 under the stand. I know it will fit but can you get it in with the center brace of the stand in the way?

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
You may want to check and see if you can have the other 2 clowns. Not sure but in that size tank you may have problems with 4.
How long has this tank been up and running? A mandrin needs lots of LR and a good supply of pods to fed. If this is not a well established tank with a good food supply the mandrin will starve.
Whats the sand bed and how LR do you have? Lights?
Corals really don't add that much load. Its more a water chem thing, the more water in the system the better balance there will be and easier to keep the water in check.
For a 29 (30x12x18)
30 x 12 x y = 4 x 231
360y = 924
y = 924/360
y= 2.56
30 x 12 x 2.56 = 921.6/231 = 3.99 gals
So you need 2.56 min in the 29 for backwash.
What design are you using? flow through or center pump?
With what you have planned I would say that 20x (DT volume) is more than enough.
Are you sure you can get the 29 under the stand. I know it will fit but can you get it in with the center brace of the stand in the way?
thanks

here are all my specs i copied from another thread i started
like i said at the beginning of the thread in places my sand bed is 1/4" for the most part its still over an inch
the sand came with the tank when i bought it from a person
i have of microphona!! alot the rocks are crawling with them as well as the sand bed
up above i tell about the position of my PHs
and i pic to explain
also like i said above im switching from IO salt to OCEANIC from what ive been told its easier to manage cal.,mag.,alk., and so on also heard it helps in keeping bad algae away
my specs
75 gallon
95lbs LR
70lbs LS (have 30lbs more non live not added yet)
aqua romaro protein skimmer
hang on refugium with chaeto macro algae
400 watts total MH is x2 150watt 10,000 k,actinic x2 44 watt,x6 2 watt LED moonlights
3 PHs (mentioned above)
also the clean up crew is just under the pic of my tank with the power heads
18watt uv sterilizer
cascade canister filter 350 gph
sorry if this points to other places to look at like i said i copied it out of another thread

ps the tank has been up since 03/24/07 i wrote it down
i also swicthed from instant ocean salt to OCEANIC i like it my calcium went from 375 to 410 just after a 25% waterchange
if you want to know my chemicals they are all "kent"
testing is by SALIFERT as well
also do you think i should go with a 20 gallon high? instead i know it will fit easy

 

[turningtim]

Pics?
Seems like you pretty much set with the rest of the system. You could use the can filter for carbon phosban if you wanted.
i would see if you could get the 29 in there. Just more water volume....

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
Pics?
Seems like you pretty much set with the rest of the system. You could use the can filter for carbon phosban if you wanted.
i would see if you could get the 29 in there. Just more water volume....
cool hope that it works out putting the dummy tank together after i eat

but cant try it till tomorrow got to get to bed work tonight

 

[renogaw]

i don't mind if anyone uses my pics. i got a lot of help from this site, and if i can give some back then cool.
if you can put the 29 gallon go for it. the 20 was also my choice, but figured the more water capacity would be better. i am running into some "what ifs" about my design though. I am going to try to make a better tray for the skimmer, but i dont know how i will ever get the skimmer out of the the fuge to get a tray under it.
with the 6" baffle where the pump is, i get about 4-5" worth of water in the final chamber from the overflow when the pumps are turned off. I use the mag5 as a return pump, but the flow is semi lazy through the fuge. i'll probably end up getting a bigger pump, but for now it works. definitely go with a DSB in the center fuge, or the chaeto won't be in the flow of the water and mine wasn't growing. now that i put in a lot more sand all my macros are in the flow and it should be fine. I clipped my light onto the stand.

 

[mrinelfrlz]

were can i get a mag type pump?
imprts4evr@yhti.net

 

[renogaw]

pretty much anywhere.

 

[turningtim]

google Danner Mag-drive pumps. more than enough sellers out there.
Including Here at SWF.com! I believe there under supplies at the top left of the page.
What size are you thinking? What OF?

 

[mrinelfrlz]

Originally Posted by TurningTim
google Danner Mag-drive pumps. more than enough sellers out there.
Including Here at SWF.com! I believe there under supplies at the top left of the page.
What size are you thinking? What OF?
i will google it
the pic of the overflow is just a little lower in the thread