This is not going to help Toyota...

stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by Zsalinas
http:///forum/post/3243101
This whole story is crazy. The ridiculous part is the only advice he was given was to jam the brakes and pull the E-brake to make the car stop. How in the hell did nobody think to put the car in NEUTRAL?! You can be driving at any speed and put a car into neutral. I know he must have been panic stricken but by the time my prius got all the way up to 90 mph that would've crossed my mind.
I was wondering about that myself...
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3242923
Then well, you ain't buying no Japanese car, that's for sure. The Lexus SC430 is a relic from the past that thankfully will be put down in July.
That's why Corvette was the winner in that category. I'm not opposed to giving credit where credit is due. Corvette is the best bang for the buck when it comes to performance sports cars.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243013
but unless you guy German do the Japs really have a good 50k+ luxury sports car? I think Caddy and the Germans still have that market pretty well sewn up.
I agree, but the plastic in BMWs has always seemed sub-par to me. The leather is great, but cheesy cupholders and brittle plastics have no place in a luxury car. Cadillac has an advantage over the Germans in ******** plastics dept for sure. Cadillac is one of the strongest scoring american brands. So is Buick...like anyone cares about Buick.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by Zsalinas
http:///forum/post/3243101
This whole story is crazy. The ridiculous part is the only advice he was given was to jam the brakes and pull the E-brake to make the car stop. How in the hell did nobody think to put the car in NEUTRAL?! You can be driving at any speed and put a car into neutral. I know he must have been panic stricken but by the time my prius got all the way up to 90 mph that would've crossed my mind.

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243103
I was wondering about that myself...
Go test drive a prius. The shift control is electronic, not mechanical. All the shifter does is send input to the PCM.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Originally Posted by Zsalinas
http:///forum/post/3243101
This whole story is crazy. The ridiculous part is the only advice he was given was to jam the brakes and pull the E-brake to make the car stop. How in the hell did nobody think to put the car in NEUTRAL?! You can be driving at any speed and put a car into neutral. I know he must have been panic stricken but by the time my prius got all the way up to 90 mph that would've crossed my mind.
I originally heard he tried and couldn't but during the interview the guy said he didn't think of it. Yet another example of the nanny state we have become. There have been a few people who thought to grab the damn cell phone and call for help but couldn't think to try neutral?
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243111
Go test drive a prius. The shift control is electronic, not mechanical. All the shifter does is send input to the PCM.
lol, I don't think I'll pass for a future prius owner... Hense why you think computer issues?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243135
lol, I don't think I'll pass for a future prius owner... Hense why you think computer issues?
I think it's an electrical issue, but may not necessarily be a software issue alone. We know that resistance changes with heat and that an electrical connection is often prone to corrosion and possible increased resistance due to a poor connection of the terminals. Voltage spikes from the alternator can also play a role. There was an issue on some mid 90s Chrysler products where police radar would interfere with the ignition system and cause a stumble in some vehicles. The fix was to insulate the engine wiring harness with a grounded metal casing (to eliminate interference from radar guns) and reflash the PCM. Using a rheostat to control an electric motor which actuates the throttle blades via processor seems like a lot of opportunities for failure. Give the PCM power over transmission gear selection and throw in PCM controlled start up/shut down....

BTW, Toyota is not alone in it's use of completely computer controlled systems. PCMs have controlled ignition, fuel (including pumps), transmissions, cooling and starter control in cars across the board for years.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243139
I think it's an electrical issue, but may not necessarily be a software issue alone. We know that resistance changes with heat and that an electrical connection is often prone to corrosion and possible increased resistance due to a poor connection of the terminals. Voltage spikes from the alternator can also play a role. There was an issue on some mid 90s Chrysler products where police radar would interfere with the ignition system and cause a stumble in some vehicles. The fix was to insulate the engine wiring harness with a grounded metal casing (to eliminate interference from radar guns) and reflash the PCM. Using a rheostat to control an electric motor which actuates the throttle blades via processor seems like a lot of opportunities for failure. Give the PCM power over transmission gear selection and throw in PCM controlled start up/shut down....

BTW, Toyota is not alone in it's use of completely computer controlled systems. PCMs have controlled ignition, fuel (including pumps), transmissions, cooling and starter control in cars across the board for years.
That is what creeps me out about these completely electrically controlled cars. I have a ghost in my wife's Mazda and it seems to be blowing tranny's...
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243144
That is what creeps me out about these completely electrically controlled cars. I have a ghost in my wife's Mazda and it seems to be blowing tranny's...
Heat is the #1 cause of automatic transmission failure. Has the trans cooler been flushed thoroughly before the transmissions were reinstalled? Are any trans cooler lines pinched? Sometimes they partially clog and don't allow proper cooling. The cooler can also recontaminate a fresh transmission with debris. The torque converter MUST be replaced along with the trans to keep it from contaminating the new trans, too. The PCM or transmission controller needs to be reflashed with the latest software, too. It also needs to relearn values such as clutch volume index. This needs to be done with a capable scantool and road test.
I'd like to see a return to throttle cables...and ignition switches that actually kill power to electrical systems.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243149
Heat is the #1 cause of automatic transmission failure. Has the trans cooler been flushed thoroughly before the transmissions were reinstalled? Are any trans cooler lines pinched? Sometimes they partially clog and don't allow proper cooling. The cooler can also recontaminate a fresh transmission with debris. The torque converter MUST be replaced along with the trans to keep it from contaminating the new trans, too. The PCM or transmission controller needs to be reflashed with the latest software, too. It also needs to relearn values such as clutch volume index. This needs to be done with a capable scantool and road test.
I'd like to see a return to throttle cables...and ignition switches that actually kill power to electrical systems.
you ever seen a tranny, supposedly being completely rebuild, randomly not go into first gear, when being shifted to drive after sitting overnight?
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243165
you ever seen a tranny, supposedly being completely rebuild, randomly not go into first gear, when being shifted to drive after sitting overnight?
Failure to engage first gear after sitting overnight. Other than the first engagement, it works fine? Once it initially goes into 1st, does it work fine until sitting overnight?
Does it engage first manually? (pulling the shifter into low gear)
My first thought is that you have a sticking valve or debris in the valve body. Once the trans warms up, the valve frees up and works until sitting again. After using the scanner to check for DTCs and solenoid operation, the first thing I would do is remove and inspect the valve body, clean it, and retest. I'm not sure if your transmission is hydraulic or electronically shifted. That would make a difference in the way I approached it. The low/reverse piston could also be sticking in the bore. Chrysler A-604s had a huge problem with that and would slam into low gear after making a stop. Replacing the low/reverse piston seal fixed them. This is less likely unless it doesn't shift into low as you come to a stop the night before.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member

Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243013
but unless you guy German do the Japs really have a good 50k+ luxury sports car? I think Caddy and the Germans still have that market pretty well sewn up.
No. The only lux sports coupe from Japan is the SC430, which is not really a competitor in any way to the German coupes. If you want a lux sports coupe there really is only one car, the Mercedes SL.
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243110
That's why Corvette was the winner in that category. I'm not opposed to giving credit where credit is due. Corvette is the best bang for the buck when it comes to performance sports cars.
I agree, but the plastic in BMWs has always seemed sub-par to me. The leather is great, but cheesy cupholders and brittle plastics have no place in a luxury car. Cadillac has an advantage over the Germans in ******** plastics dept for sure. Cadillac is one of the strongest scoring american brands. So is Buick...like anyone cares about Buick.

The thing with Bimmer's is that they are a lux only brand in America. We tend to not realize that in Germany/Europe, they have complete ranges of cars, and when BMW brings some models over there's some confusion. I know a buddies 2006 330i has a manual passenger seat! Every friggin Taurus since 95 has had a power seats.
The other thing is people expect to jump into a bargain basement BMW and be oodled the same way as the premium models. Sorry but a $35,000 325i ain't no where near a 7-series. A 4-cylinder Z4 is not a 6-series.
Buick and Cadillac. Cadillac is still around solely because of two models, the Escalade and the CTS. During the 2000's in the SUV races, there wasn't a hotter SUV then an Escalade. About mid 2000 when cars sales gained some ground back the new CTS was a large success.
Buick, I am unsure why GM saved thisbrand instead of the others, but all the new Buicks are very good. The Buick Enclave is by far my favorite Crossover, size, powertrain, world-class ********. The new LaCrosse and upcoming sporty Regal are good cars too.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member

Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3243311
No. The only lux sports coupe from Japan is the SC430, which is not really a competitor in any way to the German coupes. If you want a lux sports coupe there really is only one car, the Mercedes SL.
The thing is Bimmer's is that they are a lux only brand in America. We tend to not realize that in Germany/Europe, they have complete ranges of cars, and when BMW brings some models over there's some confusion. I know a buddies 2006 330i has a manual passenger seat! Every friggin Taurus since 95 has had a power seats.
The other thing is people expect to jump into a bargain basement BMW and be oodled the same way as the premium models. Sorry but a $35,000 325i ain't no where near a 7-series. A 4-cylinder Z4 is not a 6-series.
Buick and Cadillac. Cadillac is still around solely because of two models, the Escalade and the CTS. During the 2000's in the SUV races, there wasn't a hotter SUV then an Escalade. About mid 2000 when cars sales gained some ground back the new CTS was a large success.
Buick, I am unsure why GM saved this among the others, but all the new Buicks are very good. The Buick Enclave is by far my favorite Crossover (though admittedly I have crossovers). The new LaCrosse and upcoming sporty Regal are good cars too.
I dunno why they aren't more popular, but I love driving my grandpa's Lincoln towncar. Duel pipes, has a nice little rumble to it, and it much stiffer than the floating caddy's. It doesn't feel like you're gonna bounce off the road...
I just don't understand why they feel the need to kill good motors. Like the 3800. GM hit a home run on that motor. When I was selling parts, on the rare occasion that someone would come in with that car, all they would ever do is buy coil packs and spark plugs. We had one that had 300k on it with no major repairs. The car just finally got totaled.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243313
I dunno why they aren't more popular, but I love driving my grandpa's Lincoln towncar. Duel pipes, has a nice little rumble to it, and it much stiffer than the floating caddy's. It doesn't feel like you're gonna bounce off the road...
Because the Town Car is an dinosaur. It's still based, pretty heavily, on a platform (Panther) that dates back to 1978. It still has a friggn solid axle rear suspension! It is also expensive, for 2010 there's two models MSRP is $46,900 for the base, $52,900 for the Signature L model. That's nuts. It's also grossly underpowered, it's 4.6L V8 makes 239hp with dual exhaust.
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3243313
I just don't understand why they feel the need to kill good motors. Like the 3800. GM hit a home run on that motor. When I was selling parts, on the rare occasion that someone would come in with that car, all they would ever do is buy coil packs and spark plugs. We had one that had 300k on it with no major repairs. The car just finally got totaled.
Again, pretty much solely because "it's old." The 3800 is a OHV motor, and it's been thoroughly drilled into the consumer's head that SOHC or Dual cam motors are so much better and so much more advanced. You can't slap v-tekkk onto a OHV motor
. In all serious, OHC motors have a number of benefits more popular to today's consumers. They run a lot smoother, can get better MPG, and are more about screaming to redline then tons of torque out of the hole.
3800's are great motors though, especially the supercharged versions. A few hours in the driveway, and you have a 400+hp tire shredder.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3243311
The thing with Bimmer's is that they are a lux only brand in America. We tend to not realize that in Germany/Europe, they have complete ranges of cars, and when BMW brings some models over there's some confusion. I know a buddies 2006 330i has a manual passenger seat! Every friggin Taurus since 95 has had a power seats.
The other thing is people expect to jump into a bargain basement BMW and be oodled the same way as the premium models. Sorry but a $35,000 325i ain't no where near a 7-series. A 4-cylinder Z4 is not a 6-series.
Selling them as a luxo should mean they lose the cheesy plastics regardless of price. A $10,000 Kia has better plastics than a $35K Bimmer. Don't even mention I-Drive. You may as well be piloting the space shuttle while attempting to drive.
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3243311
Buick, I am unsure why GM saved thisbrand instead of the others, but all the new Buicks are very good. The Buick Enclave is by far my favorite Crossover, size, powertrain, world-class ********. The new LaCrosse and upcoming sporty Regal are good cars too.
Buick should have been dropped and Pontiac kept. They could have still made the same basic cars and given them a Poncho fender badge. I don't understand that decision either. Pontiac buyers seem to be very loyal. Buick is so often seen as old peoples cars. I would think that GM would lose a lot of younger buyers....buyers that grow old and keep buying Pontiacs.
 
aquaknight

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243330
Selling them as a luxo should mean they lose the cheesy plastics regardless of price. A $10,000 Kia has better plastics than a $35K Bimmer. Don't even mention I-Drive. You may as well be piloting the space shuttle while attempting to drive.
Something has to give. If there was everything in a $35k Bimmer, why would anyone spend money on the bigger models? So if that means that the lower end models have cheaper interiors, that's the goal of a Bimmer. Function over form. You still get the engineering, the why the door slams shut, the way the car rides and handles, etc. BMW has always been known to trail behind the other two Germans in interiors (Benz and Audi).
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3243330
Buick should have been dropped and Pontiac kept. They could have still made the same basic cars and given them a Poncho fender badge. I don't understand that decision either. Pontiac buyers seem to be very loyal. Buick is so often seen as old peoples cars. I would think that GM would lose a lot of younger buyers....buyers that grow old and keep buying Pontiacs.
Yep, it just would have made sense. Chevy is the general mass market cars (of course with the couple SS variants and Camaro/Corvette), Pontiac is the performance division, and Cadillac is the high-end mark. The thing with keeping Buick around is that it's also a luxury division, and you're cross-competing with Cadillac. There's no way anyone can tell me the new Regal isn't going to draw some customer from a CTS.
About Pontiac loyalists, the thing is Pontiac was headed in a direction they didn't want. The Pontiac guy wanted that 3800 in a 4-door FWD larger sedan. The GTO, G8 and Solstice all were RWD, V8 powered or 4-cyl. in the Solstice. It didn't matter that those 3 cars were among the best cars GM has offered in a long time and were truly world class competitiors, they wanted that boring FWD 6-cyl. 4-door that happened to go decently faster if you mushed the throttle.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
I think dropping Pontiac was a nod to political correctness as far as doing away with the performance division. Too bad really, Pontiac had a couple pretty cool cars. Buick has always been the Grandparent car division, at least as long as I've been alive, except for the Grand National.
 
socal57che

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3243499
I think dropping Pontiac was a nod to political correctness as far as doing away with the performance division. Too bad really, Pontiac had a couple pretty cool cars. Buick has always been the Grandparent car division, at least as long as I've been alive, except for the Grand National.
Buick also had the GSX Stage 1. They were scary fast.
linky link... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq7Ler99a4A
 
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