This is not going to help Toyota...

mantisman51

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3242880
Then I must have misunderstood you. I took it that you were insinuating that Toyota owners in general were brain dead and "unable to generate their own thoughts" as you put it.
Just recently Toyota relinquished their throne as the overall best built vehicles in the country with the highest percentage of satisfied customers. Calling someone brain dead for wanting to own one is not an accurate statement, sir.
Oh, and a Japanese car company filled the spot at the top that Toyota lost. Honda. The Japanese cars that I have owned over the years required less money to keep them on the road than thier American and European counterparts did. That is my experience with Japanese cars. If you want to hate them just because their grandparents shot at your grandparents, then that's your right, but don't call me brain dead for wanting to own a car that costs me less to operate.
Streb and SoCal, you both have proved every word I said. Streb, no other car companiy has had this frequency of killing their customers-you are attempting to justify the unjustifiable because it is blasphemy to speak poorly of your idol. All manufacturers have engineering problems-Toyota's tend to be extreme. I was a Toyota tech. SoCal,your response was a statement straight from a Toyota commercial: "lowest cost of ownership" and then a rather ridiculous attempt at labeling me as a racist. Two responses straight from the 1st book of Toyota. Can I hear Amen and hallelujah! Our Lord God Toyota hath found two servants worthy of His best!
 

mantisman51

Active Member
BTW, help me get this straight, a padded dash(that few people touch) is quality, but basic safety and health of the occupants is irrelevant in car quality? Nope, no one is brain-dead at all.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/3243499
I think dropping Pontiac was a nod to political correctness as far as doing away with the performance division. Too bad really, Pontiac had a couple pretty cool cars. Buick has always been the Grandparent car division, at least as long as I've been alive, except for the Grand National.
The reason GM dumped Pontiac for Buick is because Buick is GM's best selling model in Europe. I think their sales in Germany top any other manufacturer regarding fleet sales in that country.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3243626
Streb and SoCal, you both have proved every word I said. Streb, no other car companiy has had this frequency of killing their customers-you are attempting to justify the unjustifiable because it is blasphemy to speak poorly of your idol. All manufacturers have engineering problems-Toyota's tend to be extreme. I was a Toyota tech. SoCal,your response was a statement straight from a Toyota commercial: "lowest cost of ownership" and then a rather ridiculous attempt at labeling me as a racist. Two responses straight from the 1st book of Toyota. Can I hear Amen and hallelujah! Our Lord God Toyota hath found two servants worthy of His best!
lol, dude, you wanna go back in history, how about fords exploders that liked to flip? That offed a few people...
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3243919
It was Firestone Wilderness tires that were underinflated. It had nothing to do with Ford engineering.
Actually they did extensive tests on that year of Explorer, and found the vehicle to be top heavy. When they got the Explorer up to a certain speed, then started swerving back and forth, you could see the truck start to lean until it flipped over.
Don't like that one? How about the exploding Pinto? Ford didn't put enough structural steel around the gas tank, and several of those puppies literally exploded when they were rear-ended.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by mantisman51
http:///forum/post/3243919
It was Firestone Wilderness tires that were underinflated. It had nothing to do with Ford engineering.
which is precisely my point, if you can't engineer a vehicle to be able to survive a blowout without wrecking, you suck...
 

aquaknight

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3243939
Actually they did extensive tests on that year of Explorer, and found the vehicle to be top heavy. When they got the Explorer up to a certain speed, then started swerving back and forth, you could see the truck start to lean until it flipped over.
You can stage any test to get the result you want
. Remember Consumer Reports getting busted after they reported that the Mitsubishi Montero was prone to rolling over?? Then that video tape leaked out, where you can see it wasn't a normal situation, they were deliberately trying to roll the SUV (they had catch wheels attached), and when it finally did tip, you could hear them scream "we finally got it!!"
While the "I-Beam" front suspension in those Explorer's were bad, it isn't anything out of line. The very design of an SUV is prone to rolling over. If you repeatedly hack at the wheel of pretty much any 90's SUV, they'll roll to. The problem with the Firestones, was tread separation, not a sudden flat. I remember as a kid when this issue was a hot button, and they were doing tests on the Explorer/Firestones. They would only have a valve on the tire to let the air out. It's not remotely the same, when the tread separates, that tire loose all grip. A flat tire still has quite a decent amount of grip.
However in the end, the sole reason for those rollovers, is poor driver training. I can guarantee you every driver that rolled their Explorer did the same thing. The tire let go, and they jabbed the brakes and steering heavily to the shoulder. The slightlest amount of training would have told them the proper thing to do after the tire lets go, is just to take you foot off the gas, lightly steer to the shoulder and gently apply the brakes.
Originally Posted by bionicarm

http:///forum/post/3243939
Don't like that one? How about the exploding Pinto? Ford didn't put enough structural steel around the gas tank, and several of those puppies literally exploded when they were rear-ended
Not just Pintos, but the real cheese is the Crown Vic's that every police officer used to use. Few years ago this topic flared up, and they were claiming that new braces installed in the trunk would prevent this, but it fizzled out of the news. I bet as a whole, because of the dangerous work environment, Crown Vic's are worse then those Pintos by the numbers.
 

socal57che

Active Member
Originally Posted by stdreb27
http:///forum/post/3244009
which is precisely my point, if you can't engineer a vehicle to be able to survive a blowout without wrecking, you suck...
Dude, that's funny.
Some explorers were also recalled because a brake switch near the master cylinder leaked, overheated, and burst into flames.
and

Very classy.
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Originally Posted by AquaKnight
http:///forum/post/3244034
You can stage any test to get the result you want
. Remember Consumer Reports getting busted after they reported that the Mitsubishi Montero was prone to rolling over?? Then that video tape leaked out, where you can see it wasn't a normal situation, they were deliberately trying to roll the SUV (they had catch wheels attached), and when it finally did tip, you could hear them scream "we finally got it!!"
While the "I-Beam" front suspension in those Explorer's were bad, it isn't anything out of line. The very design of an SUV is prone to rolling over. If you repeatedly hack at the wheel of pretty much any 90's SUV, they'll roll to. The problem with the Firestones, was tread separation, not a sudden flat. I remember as a kid when this issue was a hot button, and they were doing tests on the Explorer/Firestones. They would only have a valve on the tire to let the air out. It's not remotely the same, when the tread separates, that tire loose all grip. A flat tire still has quite a decent amount of grip.
However in the end, the sole reason for those rollovers, is poor driver training. I can guarantee you every driver that rolled their Explorer did the same thing. The tire let go, and they jabbed the brakes and steering heavily to the shoulder. The slightlest amount of training would have told them the proper thing to do after the tire lets go, is just to take you foot off the gas, lightly steer to the shoulder and gently apply the brakes.
Not just Pintos, but the real cheese is the Crown Vic's that every police officer used to use. Few years ago this topic flared up, and they were claiming that new braces installed in the trunk would prevent this, but it fizzled out of the news. I bet as a whole, because of the dangerous work environment, Crown Vic's are worse then those Pintos by the numbers.
The Consumer Report studies I saw showed how the Explorer was top heavy. They got these long bars with wheels on the ends of them, and installed them on the Explorer at around door-handle height. They then drove the Explorer at various speeds through a line of cones, doing a zig zag like you do on a ski slalom course. When they reached speeds in the 50's, you could see the Explorer literally tilt from side-to-side, and the wheels at the end of the bars would be touching the road. They did the very same test with the Chevy Trailblazer, Toyota 4Runner, and a couple of other SUV's on the market at the time, and they hardly tilted if any at all.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by socal57che
http:///forum/post/3244042
Dude, that's funny.
Some explorers were also recalled because a brake switch near the master cylinder leaked, overheated, and burst into flames.
and

Very classy.

Just so you know, I was joking around and being a little rediculous...
Originally Posted by AquaKnight

http:///forum/post/3244034
Not just Pintos, but the real cheese is the Crown Vic's that every police officer used to use. Few years ago this topic flared up, and they were claiming that new braces installed in the trunk would prevent this, but it fizzled out of the news. I bet as a whole, because of the dangerous work environment, Crown Vic's are worse then those Pintos by the numbers.
Kinda like these sudden accelerations, I thought that was blown out of proportion too. They were freaking out because if those guys guy rear ended, the dang tire iron was going threw the gas tank, and bursting into flames... I mean seriously come on.
 

mrdc

Active Member
The Amish must be onto something ... you don't hear about sudden acceleration of the horse and buggy!
 

stdreb27

Active Member
lol, so now more info is coming about this character who's prius had problems. And this guy is up a creek financially...
 

bionicarm

Active Member
Yea, I was just reading about this:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,589090,00.html
Here's a couple of items in the article that do sound curious --
"It's tough for us to say if we're skeptical," Don Esmond, senior vice president of automotive operations for Toyota Motor Sales, said Thursday. "I'm mystified in how it could happen with the brake override system."
Esmond said all Priuses are equipped with a computer system that cuts power to the wheels if the brake and gas pedals are depressed at the same time — something Sikes was doing."
So was there a complete failure of the computer, or is this guy lying about standing on the brakes?
"Asked why he didn't simply put his car in neutral, Sikes said: "You had to be there. I might go into reverse. I didn't know if the care would flip. I had no idea how it would react.""
How would putting the car in neutral cause the car to flip? If he tried to push the stick from neutral to reverse, he'd have to try and slam it in pretty hard for the reverse transmission to engage.
 

stdreb27

Active Member
Originally Posted by bionicarm
http:///forum/post/3244258
How would putting the car in neutral cause the car to flip? If he tried to push the stick from neutral to reverse, he'd have to try and slam it in pretty hard for the reverse transmission to engage.
Assuming proper operation, remember these are electrical, not mechanical shifter. I think the intent of the statement was to suggest a possible reason not to shift it into neutral. Basically saying the guy was scared to shift it out of drive because he was scared he'd shift it into reverse...
You know it doesn't mean that it has to make sense, after all he already made a dumb decision and purchased a prius...
 
Top