j21kickster
Active Member
Have you guys seen this before? Pretty Sick if you ask me.
This is sad!
- Thread starter j21kickster
- Start date
steamboat1569
Member
Yes, I think it is sad.
But, I may be thinking that because I am in this hobby.
I hate to say it, but I have a belt buckle and a bolo tie that has a scorpion wrapped in acrylic. I guess I would be as guilty.
Never really thought of the idiocy of it.
Guess it's just man's domination of everything on the planet, and he shows it through his stupidity.
But, I may be thinking that because I am in this hobby.
I hate to say it, but I have a belt buckle and a bolo tie that has a scorpion wrapped in acrylic. I guess I would be as guilty.
Never really thought of the idiocy of it.
Guess it's just man's domination of everything on the planet, and he shows it through his stupidity.
jonthefb
Active Member
What about he chinese believing that ground up dried seahorses brewed into a tea form is a type of aphrodisiac? I really dont understand things such as this. Oh by the way last night on animal planet they had a special on the komodo dragon;s habitat in Indonesia, and they also focused a little on the reefs there. Beautiful cinematography until they showed how some fisherman make a living by using cyanide to stun, and ultimately catch fishes for the aquarium trade. The saddest shot ever was of them doing this to a medium sized snowflake eel. the poor little guy was lifeless as they fought to unwrap him from his coral head. That made me feel very sad about being in this hobby and supporting individuals like this who have no knowledge of the repercussions of their actions, and that most of the fish they catch will soon die. They also showed footage of them playing with a stunned triggetfish, tossing him around in the water, as his fins and body just kinda wriggled around. Sad stuff.
jon
jon
iechy
Member
While I agree that that is disgusting, it really isn't that much different than leather coats or snakeskin jackets. It's only more explicit. I still wish people didn't do it though. I wear and eat dead animals, I'll admit, but I don't take joy out of displaying dead carcasses. (I won't shed any tears for the snakes though...they creep me out)
The cyanide poisoning is also very sickening and we should, as responsible fishkeepers who claim to care about them, be sure to only buy from dealers who don't deal with those type of people. The stores I deal with have signs up stating that their fish are all net caught or captive bred and that they do not support cyanide poisoning. I take them at their word and hope that they are honest.
If we are going to kill things for fun and show off their bodies then lets use people who fly into buildings as our victims
The cyanide poisoning is also very sickening and we should, as responsible fishkeepers who claim to care about them, be sure to only buy from dealers who don't deal with those type of people. The stores I deal with have signs up stating that their fish are all net caught or captive bred and that they do not support cyanide poisoning. I take them at their word and hope that they are honest.
If we are going to kill things for fun and show off their bodies then lets use people who fly into buildings as our victims
blanchelola
New Member
People who do not understand the value of living creatures are very sad to me.
joe's reefer
Member
thats just said.what are u goin to do with a dead dries up seahorse anyways???
joebuckmaster
Member
Hey guys I do not want to open a can of worms, but I am a avid deer hunter I do have alot of pics of the deer I have killed I also have a monster buck on my wall. However I do not kill just to kill the animal. We(my family and friends) eat the meat. It is also a very expensive sport or hobbie whichever you like to call it. It is just a way of life. I really enjoy being out in the woods with nature. Sorry if I sound bitter but that is just the way I feel.
jonthefb
Active Member
joe i totally agre with you. i too hunt on occasion, and fish, but the problem i have with seahorse is that they are rapidly becoming an endangered species. Another problem with horses is that there are still species that have yet to be discovered and scientifically cataloged. If these dried horses were coming from a farm that reared them, i wouldnt have as much of a problem. More than likely, however, they are being plucked out of the wild, and are thinning an ever smaller population. Not to mention the fact that they are breaking up mated
[hr]
that have been together for who knows how long. Seahorses are one of teh only species of animals that form pair bonds for life, and unlike humans, if they break up a pair bond the seahorse left in the wild perishes, as it is unable to ever find a suitable mate. sad stuff, this is why i have a prob with the above photo. I'm not sure if the scorpiions or snakes that are used in similar trinkets are endangered or not (maybe im just naiieve to this fact), but im almost 100 percent positive that if the horse wasnt farm raised then its probably on a threatened or endangered list, or even worse, is an unidentified species!
jon
[hr]
that have been together for who knows how long. Seahorses are one of teh only species of animals that form pair bonds for life, and unlike humans, if they break up a pair bond the seahorse left in the wild perishes, as it is unable to ever find a suitable mate. sad stuff, this is why i have a prob with the above photo. I'm not sure if the scorpiions or snakes that are used in similar trinkets are endangered or not (maybe im just naiieve to this fact), but im almost 100 percent positive that if the horse wasnt farm raised then its probably on a threatened or endangered list, or even worse, is an unidentified species!
jon
steamboat1569
Member
I agree with that philosophy also. I hunt and I fish, but I do not try to put the deer, moose, or pike, into a yo yo.
Before you say it - that was a joke!LOL
Before you say it - that was a joke!LOL
iechy
Member
I don't think there is anything wrong with hunting or fishing myself. I don't do it because I don't have the heart to but I appreciate that someone does it for me so I can have my steaks. What I object to is the senselessness of killing animals for no reason as with the yo-yo. What is the purpose of taking that life? Although it is "only a seahorse" I think all life should be more dignified than to end up as a toy.
steamboat1569
Member
I think you hit the nail on the head, iechy!
Senseless
Senseless
Senseless
Senseless
Senseless
Senseless
overanalyzer
Active Member
I love this board for topic likes this.
I think Sartre said we are chained with our freedom. Since American society is based upon freedom then we only have one way to stop these types of behaviors is to not purchase these products. What I imagine is my mother or mother-in-law seeing this as cute and being a nice addition to the Under the Sea theme for the nursery. They figure it is harmless and do not put any thought in to the actual procurement of the seahorses. Also, why would they be allowed to sell it if it were harmful to the seahorses ..... because it is a free market economy.
Though I do not hunt I do fish (catchand release because the wife don't like fish).
I think Sartre said we are chained with our freedom. Since American society is based upon freedom then we only have one way to stop these types of behaviors is to not purchase these products. What I imagine is my mother or mother-in-law seeing this as cute and being a nice addition to the Under the Sea theme for the nursery. They figure it is harmless and do not put any thought in to the actual procurement of the seahorses. Also, why would they be allowed to sell it if it were harmful to the seahorses ..... because it is a free market economy.
Though I do not hunt I do fish (catchand release because the wife don't like fish).
j21kickster
Active Member
I agree that killing of animals can be justified. When it is true in nature and for a good purpose. Seahorses are reaching lower and lower numbers as they are collected for diff reasons. Cattle for example are not in low numbers and although i have read some of the bad things about cattle raising for leather and food it still dosent compare to making toys of dead seahorses. Catching a catfish to have a nice dinner isnt wrong. It is by all means natural. If it wasnt for the variety af foods we have aided by technonlgy, humans would be hunting a forraging for food on their own, plants as well as animals. I read that article, about the neon tetras in necklaces ,and the gold fish in the girls high heels. It just dissapoints me that people will do those things to animals for a quick sale.
adrian
Active Member
Interesting topic, I think its kinda ironic that people would moan about this sort of thing, especially those who have trophy bucks on their walls and keep reef tanks in their homes, not to mention that most of us use a lot of leather products. seems to me that the above sea rider trinket is meant for decoration and discussion, much like our reef tanks, and the heads of dead animals people display on walls, im not referring to any reefer in particular, Im sure there are quite a few of you with a mounted animal on the wall. I love venison and did quite a bit of hunting when I lived in MI, and I love to fish, saltwater no doubt. True there is a difference when it comes to hunting, using a dead seahorse for display, and keeping a reef tank, but in any case the animal is removed from its natural enviroment for our own pleasure. We hunt for food, while the hunters of the stone age hunted to survive, we hunt for pleasure, nothing stops us from going to the grocery store to get some meat or a fish for dinner. What gets me about hunting is most hunters take the head of the dead animal shot down with an advanced piece of weaponary, and hang it above a mantel so it can be shown off to friends and family, mostly to impress them, to say "look at this animal that I mowed down with a semi automatic rifle and claimed as my own, yeah we ate it, but check out all those points!". Then of course we dont hang every animal we shoot on the wall, only those that are worhty, ie only the most beautiful ones, as if the one with the large rack was tougher to shoot than the button buck. I think it would be a little more natural if we went after that deer with a
[hr]
, or a rock, or better yet with our bare hands, it would really be a trophy then Reefkeeping, a hobby that focuses on removing creatures from the wild to be put on display in aquariums for our pleasure so we can say "look at all these beautiful fish and corals, sure they dont have near as much room and opportunity to recreate as they did in the ocean, but check out those colors!". We will pay top dollar for a certain coral or fish, just like some may top dollar for a dead sea horse in a tire. True we keep our animals alive, for a period of time, but ultimately they die for our pleasure, rarely does an animal live out its natural life span in captivity, and they rarely contribute to the survival of wild populations. Same goes for the seahorse, and the trophy buck. There is no gray area here, we have all crossed the line to some degree, some worse than others, I think our reef tanks are a little more good natured than that seahorse, and most hunters eat what they kill before they stuff it, but in any case mother nature did not create animals to be put on display whether it be on a wall, in a glass tank, or a paperweight, or whatever purpose that seahorse serves, if any. Its not natural to any degree. Another thing is that people from other countries have different cultures and beliefs from us, and you cannot judge them for snorting a dead sea horse or the gal stone from a bear if they think its going to make mr happy a little more excited, its what they believe in. Just like we believe we need to breed and slaughter cattle in order to survive, a creature some cultures consider sacred. You also have to put a litle more thought into something like cyanide collecting, can you balme these people who use cyacnide to collect fish for the aquarium trade? Most of them come from very poor countries and many of them eat the same fish we keep in our tanks, they think were crazy for paying top dollar for their dinner. Of course they are going to use the easiest meathod to capture as many fish as possible. Can you imagine what these people actually make on each fish or coral, I bet its less than pennies on the dollar, and when your collecting fish to support your family woud you rather net each individual fish or catch dozens with cyanide and optimize your profit. Its kind like those who cry about sweat shops, yet sport shoes made in another country buy a 12 year old girl making $.08 an hour. If we didnt wear tennis shoes these sweat shop wouldnt exist, and If it wasnt for our hobby their would be no cyanide collecting. Cyanide collection is a disgusting practice, I am in no way defending it, I'm just trying to make a point. There are a lot of people who frown on us as reefkeepers, so what gives us the right to frown on someone elses beliefs. Just my opinion, sorry for the ramble, Im getting off my soap box now, Happy Reefing
[hr]
, or a rock, or better yet with our bare hands, it would really be a trophy then
Reefkeeping, a hobby that focuses on removing creatures from the wild to be put on display in aquariums for our pleasure so we can say "look at all these beautiful fish and corals, sure they dont have near as much room and opportunity to recreate as they did in the ocean, but check out those colors!". We will pay top dollar for a certain coral or fish, just like some may top dollar for a dead sea horse in a tire. True we keep our animals alive, for a period of time, but ultimately they die for our pleasure, rarely does an animal live out its natural life span in captivity, and they rarely contribute to the survival of wild populations. Same goes for the seahorse, and the trophy buck. There is no gray area here, we have all crossed the line to some degree, some worse than others, I think our reef tanks are a little more good natured than that seahorse, and most hunters eat what they kill before they stuff it, but in any case mother nature did not create animals to be put on display whether it be on a wall, in a glass tank, or a paperweight, or whatever purpose that seahorse serves, if any. Its not natural to any degree. Another thing is that people from other countries have different cultures and beliefs from us, and you cannot judge them for snorting a dead sea horse or the gal stone from a bear if they think its going to make mr happy a little more excited, its what they believe in. Just like we believe we need to breed and slaughter cattle in order to survive, a creature some cultures consider sacred. You also have to put a litle more thought into something like cyanide collecting, can you balme these people who use cyacnide to collect fish for the aquarium trade? Most of them come from very poor countries and many of them eat the same fish we keep in our tanks, they think were crazy for paying top dollar for their dinner. Of course they are going to use the easiest meathod to capture as many fish as possible. Can you imagine what these people actually make on each fish or coral, I bet its less than pennies on the dollar, and when your collecting fish to support your family woud you rather net each individual fish or catch dozens with cyanide and optimize your profit. Its kind like those who cry about sweat shops, yet sport shoes made in another country buy a 12 year old girl making $.08 an hour. If we didnt wear tennis shoes these sweat shop wouldnt exist, and If it wasnt for our hobby their would be no cyanide collecting. Cyanide collection is a disgusting practice, I am in no way defending it, I'm just trying to make a point. There are a lot of people who frown on us as reefkeepers, so what gives us the right to frown on someone elses beliefs. Just my opinion, sorry for the ramble, Im getting off my soap box now, Happy Reefing
broomer5
Active Member
Just to toss this into the discussion.
I don't neccesarily see the connection between hunting or fishing, and making toys out of dead seahorses.
If the natural habitat for a given species of wild animal is reduced to a point where it is near impossible to sustain a healthy population, or sustainable yield, then harvesting the excess for whatever man decides to do with them, is a wise and appropriate course of action.
It's called wildlife managment, and is the foundation of most all hunting programs.
Due to the lack of natural preditors, and the limited available food supply, a given parcel of land can only sustain a given number of animals. It's called the "carrying capacity" for that parcel of land.
Same holds true for the sea, although on a much larger scale.
There is a certain number of animals that can survive within this parcel of land. When the number of animals is greater than the carrying capacity of the land can handle - starvation and disease occurs, and you are left with a population of animals that are in worse shape overall.
This is why most departments of natural resources develop a hunting program - to keep the number of animals down - to not exceed the carrying capacity - and to maintain a healthy sustainable population of wild animals for that given area.
Deer tags are issued. Daily fish limits are established. Only so many animals are to be taken during certain times of the year, by certain hunting/fishing methods.
It's not all about one's rights to hunt. It's also about man taking responsibility for destroying so much of these animals natural habitat - and man trying to figure out a managable way to keep the population healthy.
Hunting is a way to harvest these animals, allowing the surviving animals a much better chance to grow to maturity and reproduce, while at the same time providing recreation and food to man.
Fewer healthy animals compared to more unhealthy starving ones.
As far as fishing and harvesting animals from the ocean for man to eat or use, the ocean is a vast natural resource, and has been providing us food and products since the beginning. It's only when man exceeds his take, and doesn't allow for the population to sustain itself, do we start getting into trouble.
It's true for most every species. Of course certain species have been determined to be endangered, and the taking of these animals should be managed, or prohibited. This along with habitat protection is the key to allowing them a chance of survival.
I've hunted before, and didn't enjoy it all that much. It was not too tough for me to blast quail out of the sky with a shotgun as the trained Brittany spaniel flushed out the birds. I do like to fish for bass and crappie in some old farm ponds around here. Hard to beat that in my opinion. I catch and release unless we're camping and want a good fresh fish dinner. Hard to beat that too. I buy my license each year, and hopefully that money helps to support the management of the animals I take.
Hunting or the removal of wild animals by any means, either from the sea or from the land is a balancing act. If the balance act fails, and man continues to pull from this resource, without understanding what can happen - populations dwindle to a point of near or complete extinction. If the practice is stopped, or a certain number of animals are protected, then it's possible to maintain these animals and slowly increase their numbers.
American Bison, American Bald Eagle, North American Wolves and
Whales seem to be the ones that get the most attention here in the states. There are hundreds/thousands of other animals that do not get the attention, but still need to either be managed or protected.
I'm still having a difficult time understanding the point of taking a live seahorse or any animal for that matter, killing it, then placing it's dead body in a mold, pouring acrylic over it, and making a yo yo. I suppose the only point is someone wanting to make some money, at the expense of these creatures lives.
Unless these seahorses are raised in captivity for this reason - I don't agree with this practice.
I don't neccesarily see the connection between hunting or fishing, and making toys out of dead seahorses.
If the natural habitat for a given species of wild animal is reduced to a point where it is near impossible to sustain a healthy population, or sustainable yield, then harvesting the excess for whatever man decides to do with them, is a wise and appropriate course of action.
It's called wildlife managment, and is the foundation of most all hunting programs.
Due to the lack of natural preditors, and the limited available food supply, a given parcel of land can only sustain a given number of animals. It's called the "carrying capacity" for that parcel of land.
Same holds true for the sea, although on a much larger scale.
There is a certain number of animals that can survive within this parcel of land. When the number of animals is greater than the carrying capacity of the land can handle - starvation and disease occurs, and you are left with a population of animals that are in worse shape overall.
This is why most departments of natural resources develop a hunting program - to keep the number of animals down - to not exceed the carrying capacity - and to maintain a healthy sustainable population of wild animals for that given area.
Deer tags are issued. Daily fish limits are established. Only so many animals are to be taken during certain times of the year, by certain hunting/fishing methods.
It's not all about one's rights to hunt. It's also about man taking responsibility for destroying so much of these animals natural habitat - and man trying to figure out a managable way to keep the population healthy.
Hunting is a way to harvest these animals, allowing the surviving animals a much better chance to grow to maturity and reproduce, while at the same time providing recreation and food to man.
Fewer healthy animals compared to more unhealthy starving ones.
As far as fishing and harvesting animals from the ocean for man to eat or use, the ocean is a vast natural resource, and has been providing us food and products since the beginning. It's only when man exceeds his take, and doesn't allow for the population to sustain itself, do we start getting into trouble.
It's true for most every species. Of course certain species have been determined to be endangered, and the taking of these animals should be managed, or prohibited. This along with habitat protection is the key to allowing them a chance of survival.
I've hunted before, and didn't enjoy it all that much. It was not too tough for me to blast quail out of the sky with a shotgun as the trained Brittany spaniel flushed out the birds. I do like to fish for bass and crappie in some old farm ponds around here. Hard to beat that in my opinion. I catch and release unless we're camping and want a good fresh fish dinner. Hard to beat that too. I buy my license each year, and hopefully that money helps to support the management of the animals I take.
Hunting or the removal of wild animals by any means, either from the sea or from the land is a balancing act. If the balance act fails, and man continues to pull from this resource, without understanding what can happen - populations dwindle to a point of near or complete extinction. If the practice is stopped, or a certain number of animals are protected, then it's possible to maintain these animals and slowly increase their numbers.
American Bison, American Bald Eagle, North American Wolves and
Whales seem to be the ones that get the most attention here in the states. There are hundreds/thousands of other animals that do not get the attention, but still need to either be managed or protected.
I'm still having a difficult time understanding the point of taking a live seahorse or any animal for that matter, killing it, then placing it's dead body in a mold, pouring acrylic over it, and making a yo yo. I suppose the only point is someone wanting to make some money, at the expense of these creatures lives.
Unless these seahorses are raised in captivity for this reason - I don't agree with this practice.
iechy
Member
Adrian,
There is a difference IMO. Hunters and fisherman usually eat their "kills" they don't just make a trinket out of them for show. I also don't agree that it is the same as keeping a reef. While there is a small bit of truth to it, it is still very much different. WE at least try to be conscientious owners of the animals we keep. My only reason to try and keep everything alive is not just because I don't want to waste money (although it is a concern) but because it is the right thing to do if I am going to take responsibility for it's life.
Again IMO the killing of animals is not necessarily wrong. If it is done for food or clothing or shelter or protection or blah blah blah. In fact this is the natural way of things. It is how we made it this far and it is how all of the creatures we are fascinated with keeping in little glass boxes in our homes have made it that far as well.
Just my opinion...suprising myself since I'm sounding alot less conservative than usual...I'll have to fix that
There is a difference IMO. Hunters and fisherman usually eat their "kills" they don't just make a trinket out of them for show. I also don't agree that it is the same as keeping a reef. While there is a small bit of truth to it, it is still very much different. WE at least try to be conscientious owners of the animals we keep. My only reason to try and keep everything alive is not just because I don't want to waste money (although it is a concern) but because it is the right thing to do if I am going to take responsibility for it's life.
Again IMO the killing of animals is not necessarily wrong. If it is done for food or clothing or shelter or protection or blah blah blah. In fact this is the natural way of things. It is how we made it this far and it is how all of the creatures we are fascinated with keeping in little glass boxes in our homes have made it that far as well.
Just my opinion...suprising myself since I'm sounding alot less conservative than usual...I'll have to fix that