This is why I H A T E partisan politics...

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/100#post_3502315
Sometimes you amaze me with your simple ignorance-literal, not metaphorical. WE WERE INVITED BY THE SOUTH VIETNAMESE WHEN NORTH VIETNAM, RUSSIA AND CHINA BROKE A PEACE TREATY AND INVADED SOUTH VIETNAM! There ya go. Even a Stalinist like you can understand that if it's loud enough.
Invited? Why would we go into a war invited? Talk about ignorance. US involvement was between 1955 and 1975. The French actually occupied South Vietnam until around 1954. The only military involvement Russia and China had was they supplied training and aircraft to the North, and they trained the Vietcong, WHO INVADED SOUTH VIETNAM. It was the Tonkin Gulf incident that gave Johnson the "ammo" to get the US totally involved in Vietnam in 1964. The war itself wasn't about making Vietnam a Democratic nation, but instead keeping Russia and China from using that part of Indonesia as a way to continue spreading Communism. I could continue giving you a history lesson, but what's the point. A NeoCon like you would just twist the concepts to make them appear you knew what you were talking about

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502333
Invited? Why would we go into a war invited? Talk about ignorance. US involvement was between 1955 and 1975. The French actually occupied South Vietnam until around 1954. The only military involvement Russia and China had was they supplied training and aircraft to the North, and they trained the Vietcong, WHO INVADED SOUTH VIETNAM. It was the Tonkin Gulf incident that gave Johnson the "ammo" to get the US totally involved in Vietnam in 1964. The war itself wasn't about making Vietnam a Democratic nation, but instead keeping Russia and China from using that part of Indonesia as a way to continue spreading Communism. I could continue giving you a history lesson, but what's the point. A NeoCon like you would just twist the concepts to make them appear you knew what you were talking about
He is right, we were invited. We had military advisers there long before we sent in troops.

 

[stdreb27]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics#post_3501548
So today, 97 republicans in the House sent a letter saying they will oppose the nomination of Ambassador Susan Rice because purposely gave misleading statements following the attacks in Benghazi. They claim she either purposely lied, or was simply incompetent from her remarks five days after the attack.
I'm curious. The attacks happened in real time, as all over the middle east, there were violent protests happening because of that stupid anti-Muslim film. Given the climate and circumstances, doesn't it make sense that this attack in Libya was just like all the other ones at the time? Several weeks down the road after you get to look at intelligence and get a full grasp of the situation, then I could see if she gave bad information. That would be something to be upset about.
However, a mere 96 hours after this all happened, before anyone knew what was going on, she should be to blame for this? I don't get it. I wouldn't care if it was a Dem or Repub who told "bad information" at that time. She simply didn't know any better, just like the rest of the government.
Why now the big stink?!?
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/house-republicans-formally-oppose-potential-cabinet-nomination-for-rice/#ixzz2CiBABjLT
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/house-republicans-formally-oppose-potential-cabinet-nomination-for-rice/#ixzz2CiAutsA6
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/house-republicans-formally-oppose-potential-cabinet-nomination-for-rice/#ixzz2CiAutsA6
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/11/19/house-republicans-formally-oppose-potential-cabinet-nomination-for-rice/#ixzz2CiAutsA6
If you REALLY hated partisan politics, you'd be railing about the Obama response to that situation. Not Republicans making some move to try and block the nomination of a potential sec of state...

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502340
He is right, we were invited. We had military advisers there long before we sent in troops.
You're splitting hairs. His entire argument is we were justified to get involved with Vietnam because of the apparent genocide of Vietnam citizens. It seems to be a pretty hypocritical statement when you have the exact same thing going on in Africa for decades, yet the US has no interest in getting involved with that "genocide incident".
We got involved with Vietnam to deter the advancement of Communism in that region. First I've heard we went in for humanatarian reasons.

 

[mantisman51]

I wish we still had the Sedition Act and bureaucrats with the balls to use it. A broken treaty by communists. A plea for help from the legitimate, UN recognized government. Stopping the slaughter of millions. Preventing the takeover of the entire Pacific Rim by China and Russia. I can see why he would have a problem with each of those things. Stalinism. The growth of socialism is inevitable and any attempt to prevent it is bad. He exemplifies Stalins dream of poorly educated, brainwashed liberals. Congressman West is right and Bionic is exhibit A.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502371
I wish we still had the Sedition Act and bureaucrats with the balls to use it. A broken treaty by communists. A plea for help from the legitimate, UN recognized government. Stopping the slaughter of millions. Preventing the takeover of the entire Pacific Rim by China and Russia. I can see why he would have a problem with each of those things. Stalinism. The growth of socialism is inevitable and any attempt to prevent it is bad. He exemplifies Stalins dream of poorly educated, brainwashed liberals. Congressman West is right and Bionic is exhibit A.
mantis you're clueless. You live in your little isolated myopic world of your perception of how this country should operate. You make Vietnam sound like Ho Chi Minh was sending millions of innocent Vietnamese to his private concentartion camps for slaughter. Wasn't the case at all. I don't know where you're getting your "slaughter of millions" number regarding innocent people dying in Vietnam. Here's an interesting list of deaths DURING and POST war:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War_casualties
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/SOD.CHAP6.HTM
Try a new and inventive way of trying to insult me. Your depiction of my political beliefs is hilarious. You wouldn't know what Stalinism was if it slapped you in the face.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502367
You're splitting hairs. His entire argument is we were justified to get involved with Vietnam because of the apparent genocide of Vietnam citizens. It seems to be a pretty hypocritical statement when you have the exact same thing going on in Africa for decades, yet the US has no interest in getting involved with that "genocide incident".
We got involved with Vietnam to deter the advancement of Communism in that region. First I've heard we went in for humanatarian reasons.
Both before and after we were in Vietnam the communists massacred a lot of people so there was a humanitarian aspect to us being there. But yeah, it was all about stopping the spread of communism which isn't a bad idea.

 

[mantisman51]

The only reason you don't know there was a humanitarian component to our involvement there is because you have bought the Stalinist lie and have never looked at the conflict with objectivity. Go to YouTube and look up Army Vietnam Films. You will find several by the U.S. Army explaining to our soldiers why we had to help there and why what they were doing was much more than stopping communist aggression. Also, I find it strange that you keep trying to draw a parallel to other countries that don't want our military assistance and we have no strategic necessity to involve ourselves in. You won't do it, but I wish for just 1 day you ask yourself why you feel so emotionally compelled to condemn anti-communist actions and condemn your own country. I have searched my heart and I know that freedom and the righteousness of the American way are worth defending and fighting for. Your knee-jerk antipathy toward anything that fights tyranny and encourages liberty and freedom and perceive them as evil and suspect is truly perplexing to me. I wouldn't live in this country if I was so opposed to our national values.

 

[darthtang aw]

600,000 south vietnamese were captured and killed in concentration/POW camps by the north vietnamese as a result of their easter day offensive.
The cambodian civil war and subsequent massacre have direct Ties to the Vietnamese war as it was recently learned U.S.S.R hjelped facility the agreement between the khure regime and the NVA to invade cambodia and spark the revolution. The Laotian Massacre is also tied to the Vietnam war.

 

[darthtang aw]

60,000 captured and killed in concentration/POW camps by the north vietnamese as a result of their easter day offensive.
The cambodian civil war and subsequent massacre have direct Ties to the Vietnamese war as it was recently learned U.S.S.R hjelped facility the agreement between the khure regime and the NVA to invade cambodia and spark the revolution. The Laotian Massacre is also tied to the Vietnam war.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darthtang AW http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502396
600,000 south vietnamese were captured and killed in concentration/POW camps by the north vietnamese as a result of their easter day offensive.
The cambodian civil war and subsequent massacre have direct Ties to the Vietnamese war as it was recently learned U.S.S.R hjelped facility the agreement between the khure regime and the NVA to invade cambodia and spark the revolution. The Laotian Massacre is also tied to the Vietnam war.
You can go through the history of a multitude of countries and see where some form of genocide occurred. Again, why is the US deemed to be the sole protector of the world, and why are we responsible for the actions of other country's governments. How many people have died through the years in Russia, vanquished to Siberia never to be seen again? Where's the US compassion, and our drive to invade that country to help the multitude of downtrodden? Look at the millions in China that are starving today, living in slums, making $2/day so that you can buy cheap shirts and electronics at Walmart? No humanatarian mission to that country?

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502395
The only reason you don't know there was a humanitarian component to our involvement there is because you have bought the Stalinist lie and have never looked at the conflict with objectivity. Go to YouTube and look up Army Vietnam Films. You will find several by the U.S. Army explaining to our soldiers why we had to help there and why what they were doing was much more than stopping communist aggression. Also, I find it strange that you keep trying to draw a parallel to other countries that don't want our military assistance and we have no strategic necessity to involve ourselves in. You won't do it, but I wish for just 1 day you ask yourself why you feel so emotionally compelled to condemn anti-communist actions and condemn your own country. I have searched my heart and I know that freedom and the righteousness of the American way are worth defending and fighting for. Your knee-jerk antipathy toward anything that fights tyranny and encourages liberty and freedom and perceive them as evil and suspect is truly perplexing to me. I wouldn't live in this country if I was so opposed to our national values.
No strategic necessity to involve ourselves? What a poor excuse to justify your reasoning. So that's how it works? There has to be something in it for us before we get involved? That's got to be the most hypocritical ideology I've ever heard to justify an argument.
Go cry me a river mantis. Your vision of America is the good ole' boy version where you want how YOU perceive it to be. Quit watching Audey Murphy and John Wayne movies, and look at the REAL America.

 

[mantisman51]

Now introspection, huh? Stalin is laughing from his glass tomb. So we can't be a world policeman, yet we should have some other criteria than defending freedom, saving lives and looking out for our national interest? I'm confused. Do we just go running roughshod and impose our will everywhere to right wrongs or do we intervene for our allies that have a common goal? You are talking out of too many orifices. I have lost track of when and why you think we should intervene. I have been clear from the beginning. You, however, can't find a spot on the map to settle in. Again, your posts simply exude an anti-American sentiment. Why are you here? America is so evil for not intervening in every country's business and equally guilty for protecting allies and stopping communism. So our country is evil either way in your eyes. So, why are you here. There is a great pacifist country to the north that lives your "ideals". Since we are so evil, why are you still here? That you choose to remain here, you are a hypocritical accomplice to our perceived evil. Why are you still here?

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502404
You can go through the history of a multitude of countries and see where some form of genocide occurred. Again, why is the US deemed to be the sole protector of the world, and why are we responsible for the actions of other country's governments. How many people have died through the years in Russia, vanquished to Siberia never to be seen again? Where's the US compassion, and our drive to invade that country to help the multitude of downtrodden? Look at the millions in China that are starving today, living in slums, making $2/day so that you can buy cheap shirts and electronics at Walmart? No humanatarian mission to that country?
What would have happened if we sat back and let China and Russia takeover all of Asia? Communism and it's baby brother Socialism are horrible forms of government unless you happen to be a member of the ruling class.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502408
Now introspection, huh? Stalin is laughing from his glass tomb. So we can't be a world policeman, yet we should have some other criteria than defending freedom, saving lives and looking out for our national interest? I'm confused. Do we just go running roughshod and impose our will everywhere to right wrongs or do we intervene for our allies that have a common goal? You are talking out of too many orifices. I have lost track of when and why you think we should intervene. I have been clear from the beginning. You, however, can't find a spot on the map to settle in. Again, your posts simply exude an anti-American sentiment. Why are you here? America is so evil for not intervening in every country's business and equally guilty for protecting allies and stopping communism. So our country is evil either way in your eyes. So, why are you here. There is a great pacifist country to the north that lives your "ideals". Since we are so evil, why are you still here? That you choose to remain here, you are a hypocritical accomplice to our perceived evil. Why are you still here?
The operative word is "intervene". Why in your tunnel vision do you think it's our responsibilty to intervene in some other country's affairs? Because of the same conspiracy theory attitudes you have that Obama is going to destroy this country JUST BECAUSE? How were the Vietnamese our allies? As it's been stated multiple times, our primary goal for getting involved with that little political skirmish was this Cold War ideology that big bad Communism was going to take over the world. Hate to burst your bubble, but one of the largest Communist countries on this planet holds some of our largest debt. IT'S THE APOCALYPSE! CHINA IS SCHEMING TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD! Hello to mantis! This isn't the 40's and 50's anymore! You must've been a big proponent to the old McCarthyism days. Communism isn't what it used to be. Shoot, Russia doesn't even exude Communistic traits any longer. Communism isn't what brought down the Towers on 9/11. Communism isn't what collapsed our economic system 10 years ago. Time for you to catch up. TYou're about as clear as the Hudson River. Keep talking in circles, and someone's going to think you're a merry-go-round.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502409
What would have happened if we sat back and let China and Russia takeover all of Asia? Communism and it's baby brother Socialism are horrible forms of government unless you happen to be a member of the ruling class.
China and Russia could take over any of that region today if they wanted to. Interesting how we didn't "intervene" and start a ruckus with China when they took back control of Hong Kong. Yea, that evil Communism/Socialism has really screwed up their economy.

 

[reefraff]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bionicarm http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502411
China and Russia could take over any of that region today if they wanted to. Interesting how we didn't "intervene" and start a ruckus with China when they took back control of Hong Kong. Yea, that evil Communism/Socialism has really screwed up their economy.
Hong Kong wasn't taken. Englands lease expired. This is according to a friend who owns a couple factories in China, when it comes to economic matters they are more capitalist than the US now.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502418
Hong Kong wasn't taken. Englands lease expired. This is according to a friend who owns a couple factories in China, when it comes to economic matters they are more capitalist than the US now.
A bigger Capitalist society, even though they are ruled by those evil Socialist/Commies. Don't admit that to mantis. He'll turn you into the FBI for being a Communist Subversive.

 

[mantisman51]

Again, even in your humor, you show your ignorance. Capitalism is an economic system. Communism is an economic system(socialism) enforced by a totalitarian central government(communism is the aggregate of socialism and totalitarianism). Capitalism isn't incompatible with totalitarianism, but it is a strange bedfellow, as the Chinese central government is learning. Bionic, do you ever study anything but HuffPo and Daily KOS? I think that is why you are so anti-American. You only have the American left's world view since you've never studied this stuff for your self.

 

[bionicarm]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393539/this-is-why-i-h-a-t-e-partisan-politics/120#post_3502442
Again, even in your humor, you show your ignorance. Capitalism is an economic system. Communism is an economic system(socialism) enforced by a totalitarian central government(communism is the aggregate of socialism and totalitarianism). Capitalism isn't incompatible with totalitarianism, but it is a strange bedfellow, as the Chinese central government is learning. Bionic, do you ever study anything but HuffPo and Daily KOS? I think that is why you are so anti-American. You only have the American left's world view since you've never studied this stuff for your self.
The only person that has a perception of me being "Anti-American" is you. BTW, never been on either of those sites. Nothing there interests me. On the other hand, AmericanThinker, NRA.org, FoxNews, and the Rush Limbaugh diatribe must be your only source for information. Don't ever try and drive on a NASCAR circuit. You'd crash and burn on the first turn.
Your analogies make absolutely no sense. Hong Kong is under Chinese rule. Reef maintains that they are more of a Capitalist than the US, which would make it a logical assumption they adhere to a broader Capitalistic society than your elusive Communistic or Socialist economic system. There is no purely capitalist or communist economy in the world today. The capitalist United States has a Social Security system, a social healthcare system (Medicare), a government-run military, and a government-owned postal service. Communist China now allows its citizens to keep some of the profits they earn.