tomb of jesus

[dcoyle11]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
thats what i would think, not to be taken literally, but there are obviously some sects or groups or branches that whole heartedly believe everything, word for word, down to the punctuation. to me, it seems to do that, especially with a mistranslated text, is a recipe for disaster. look at the extremist islamics, taking a sentance here or there out of the koran, totally out of context , but word for word (in some cases, often times when these people are asked to point out the hateful things they utter in the koran, they are at a loss)
Below are two examples from the Bible that would give you reason to beleive every word. Remember as a christain the story of Christs death and
resurrection comes from the Bible why would you not beleive everything else that the book states. He tells us to in scripture. The difference from say extremist islamics and Christains is that the Bible does not teach anything about hate for the exception that it's wrong.
new testament
2 Timothy 3--16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
old testement
Deuteronomy 4--2 You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.

 

[johnny84]

We have to remember that these writings have been and still can be interpreted in many different ways. That is part of the problem. I do believe that the Church (Vatican) has the true story locked away in a vault that no one is allowed to see but the Pope. The Catholic Church and most other modern day religions are money making machines. The current Pope walks around in gucci sunglass and $500.00 shoes (would the christian version of Jesus approve?). Now you say that if its proven that Jesus was just a human with no "special powers" the church would not take a hit. Hell yeah it would, and they will and have done everything possible to keep the true story hidden, from the days of the Templars to this very day. Don't kid yourself, its about money.
The Church bent backwards to bad mouth and reject Dan Brown's "DaVinci Code". You may want to ask yourself why. It is a ficticious book, but why did they try so hard to bad mouth it and try and stop the movie? I know people who's priests would give sermons bad mouthing this book. but why? for what ? Its only fiction. OR did it actually hit on some truth that they want hidden ?

 

[dcoyle11]

Originally Posted by Johnny84
We have to remember that these writings have been and still can be interpreted in many different ways. That is part of the problem. I do believe that the Church (Vatican) has the true story locked away in a vault that no one is allowed to see but the Pope. The Catholic Church and most other modern day religions are money making machines. The current Pope walks around in gucci sunglass and $500.00 shoes (would the christian version of Jesus approve?). Now you say that if its proven that Jesus was just a human with no "special powers" the church would not take a hit. Hell yeah it would, and they will and have done everything possible to keep the true story hidden, from the days of the Templars to this very day. Don't kid yourself, its about money.
The Church bent backwards to bad mouth and reject Dan Brown's "DaVinci Code". You may want to ask yourself why. It is a ficticious book, but why did they try so hard to bad mouth it and try and stop the movie? I know people who's priests would give sermons bad mouthing this book. but why? for what ? Its only fiction. OR did it actually hit on some truth that they want hidden ?
you make some very good points Johnny84 i do not think "the christian version of Jesus" would approve. Thats why people need to take the focus off "The Church and its people" and focus more on their personal relationship with Him. Thats what I do with my faith. I love my church but I also know that the people that run it are human and will sin and fail just like me. i can see by your other posts you are well versed in many things. i would ask you to read the bible again and see how many times it warns of churches making mistakes and letting their pride or greed get in the way of someones faith or their development in their faith.

 

[johnny84]

Originally Posted by dcoyle11
you make some very good points Johnny84 i do not think "the christian version of Jesus" would approve. Thats why people need to take the focus off "The Church and its people" and focus more on their personal relationship with Him. Thats what I do with my faith. I love my church but I also know that the people that run it are human and will sin and fail just like me. i can see by your other posts you are well versed in many things. i would ask you to read the bible again and see how many times it warns of churches making mistakes and letting their pride or greed get in the way of someones faith or their development in their faith.
I have a problem with the bible. The message that it sends is great, dont get me wrong, however, the bible as I see it goes like this.. Part One the Old Testament...In my opinion is based on a myth that got brought over from an egyptian myth, just the names have changed, the story is the same. Part Two the New Testament....In my opinion is made up of half truths, in other words it not the entire story. The writings in the new testament were chosen by a group of monks to benefit "their" version of "their" religion at the time. These monks were chosen to do this by a King, and I am sorry I forget what king it was, but the king was trying to start a society so the monks chose what they wanted to with the kings approval to better suit their "society" at that particular time.
I am Catholic, I went to Catholic school all my life, I had to read the bible everyday in religion class. Most of us believe in religion because we are told so at an early age, most of us dont go looking for historical facts. Fortunetely for me I have and the more I read about the subject the more and more interested I become. I dont have a problem with religion, I believe its good to have faith, a hope for a better life after this one, however, the truth is the church is making money hand over fist. The church lies, they hide things and they are very sneaky and this is not just today's church, this has happened through out history. When the pope walks around in designer sunglasses, I start to question what is really going on here.

 

[saltn00b]

if people are human, and being human is to be flawed, then by deductive reasoning, everything that humans create are hence also flawed. If the word of G-D was given to man, than surely their are flaws in his recounting of this word. and everytime the story passed by word of mouth, by written word, over centuries, millennia and a sea of languages, can we count the flaws?

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
if people are human, and being human is to be flawed, then by deductive reasoning, everything that humans create are hence also flawed.
I think your deductive reasoning is flawed.

 

[bigarn]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I think your deductive reasoning is flawed.
lol ... Sorry, but I just find this hilarious! :hilarious

 

[saltn00b]

i might not have said scientifically correct (because i am flawed), but the point still is true. nothing a human ever does is perfect, or am i wrong again? Perfection is divine, no matter what religion.

 

[johnny84]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
i might not have said scientifically correct (because i am flawed), but the point still is true. nothing a human ever does is perfect, or am i wrong again? Perfection is divine, no matter what religion.
So true, thats why it comes down to individual faith and beliefs.

 

[greymach]

You guys are all saying it cant be true that its his tomb becuase he rose from the dead and it doesnt follow the story...the point of the discovery is that it disproves everything so to disprove the discovery with all the things that it is disproving is rediculas

 

[johnny84]

Originally Posted by GreyMach
You guys are all saying it cant be true that its his tomb becuase he rose from the dead and it doesnt follow the story...the point of the discovery is that it disproves everything so to disprove the discovery with all the things that it is disproving is rediculas

No, I think its very possible that it could be his tomb.

 

[watson3]

Originally Posted by GreyMach
the point of the discovery is that it disproves everything

NOt sure what you were watching, but it DID NOT prove OR disprove anything..

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by saltn00b
i might not have said scientifically correct (because i am flawed), but the point still is true. nothing a human ever does is perfect, or am i wrong again? Perfection is divine, no matter what religion.
I believe something imperfect can accomplish something perfectly.

 

[reefkprz]

Originally Posted by Bang Guy
I believe something imperfect can accomplish something perfectly.
too true I am imperfect, and screw up perfectly all the time.

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by reefkprZ
too true I am imperfect, and screw up perfectly all the time.
That's a perfect example.

 

[saltn00b]

if you want to be smart about it,
perfect implies the soundness and the excellence of every part, element, or quality of a thing as an unattainable or theoretical state
so you are both wrong, it is not a perfect example, as you can not correctly use the term perfect to describe imperfection. it's an oxy-moron. Grammaticaly correct, yes, but not by substance. and if you want to take it the next level, im sure someone can and will screw up better than you.

 

[pontius]

don't know how this topic got onto "perfection", but I sure don't know how some of you say that "perfection" is an unattainable state. huh? "perfection" is as "beauty"....in the eye of the beholder. If DaVinci got up and said, "now, I've painted the perfect picture", then to him, it is perfect. if you have your own idea of what the "perfect" woman is and you then find a woman that meets all your expectations, then you have found the perfect woman. now on to what the topic is actually about....
Originally Posted by GreyMach
You guys are all saying it cant be true that its his tomb becuase he rose from the dead and it doesnt follow the story...the point of the discovery is that it disproves everything so to disprove the discovery with all the things that it is disproving is rediculas
unless there is a body in the tomb with nail holes and a crown of thorns, then this would prove or disprove absolutely nothing. there is no way that any of this will ever be proven or disproven, to say otherwise is "rediculas".
it will never be proven that this is the tomb of Jesus Christ. and since it took 27 years for this story to break, it's very likely that it's a hoax. afterall, it was in Israel. I don't think the Jews would mind showing Christians real proof that Jesus was not the Messiah. they obviously thought it wasn't too important.

 

[johnny84]

I dont think anyone really believes it can be proven 100% either way. But it makes for great debate and its a very interesting subject since all of us have been brought up with some kind of religion.

 

[dcoyle11]

My Faith for me is explained below.

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
I am sure of what I hope for and I am certain of things even if I do not "see" them. That is my faith in Christ and I would not have it any other way. Do I wish others would see it that way? Sure! But I certainly can not make them.

 

[johnny84]

For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.