Uggggg...nitrites...please help

[dottiekh]

Ok. I have read everything you guys have given me so far, and I can not tell you all how much I appreicate your willingness to help. I ran out this morning and got a master testing kit, and as of this morning the levels are:
ammonia 2.0
nitrate 10
ph 7.8
nitrite 2.0
Here is what I'm praying....can this just be my spike? Since I have elevated levels in all (except ph), and it's been approx. 4 weeks since set up, please tell me that's whats happening. All fish are still acting fine. They ate like champs this morning, and they are all swimming around happily. I'm going to find some prime, and try that. Also, like I said yesterday, after reading some threads here, I'm regretting the cc decision. Is it too late? Is is possible to just soak some sand, and then place it on top of the coral?
Let me just say that I really do LOVE the tank, I really do LOVE my fish. I'll be absolutly heart broken if I loose them. They are all great, but my puffer is awsome. I'm so open to anything you guys suggest. If jumping from my roof, while wearing purple lipstick and bowling shoes would help, then I'll go get the ladder. Thanks to all of you for your help.

 

[dottiekh]

Also, I just looked at live rock on this site. I'm thinking about going ahead and getting some. Will that help? It says it's already cured, so I can just put it right in, right? If it will help, then I'll order some today.
Thanks again...
Dottie

 

[ppm411]

Originally Posted by Amphibious
When filtered with a canister filter and a bed of crushed coral there is no way for the Nitrate generated to be converted to Nitrogen gas and therefore builds up to toxic levels.
Amphibious - could you elaborate on this statement? Is it the fact that the water is not exposed to the air for gas exchange? An air stone or skimmer would help this wouldn't it?

 

[misfit]

Hi Sounds like some high ammonia to me. I dont think the tank is done cycling compounded by the problem you added to many fish too quick, too much of a bio load and no livesand and live rock to help. My suggestion,I know you love your fish, return them to your lfs-maybe he can hold your puffer for you since hes your favorite.Purchase liverock, as much as you can afford. Prefebbily cured already, take out the cc put rock in .You should aim for 1-1.5 lb per gallon but you dont have to have it all at once. Then live sand,when levels return to zero- go get your puffer back. You havent said what type of water you are using and salt. Ro water is the best. Your ph is also pretty low,but because of the offset in water. This is just my opinon. I think you need to back track.Im afraid to say I dont think they will make it if you dont get them out of their. Good luck

 

[coachklm]

wow Ive never seen 2.0 ammonia .........and your fish are still alive? what types of fish are these??? gotta let the beginners know what kinds of fish these are so they stop killing angels and tangs...lol
I did the raw shrimp method and ghost feeding but never got amm. that high.
p.s. i also have a saltwater master test kit and also a red sea marine test kit i have inaquerate readings on both and am soon switching to salifert test kits....JMO or go with seachem.

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by ppm411
Amphibious - could you elaborate on this statement? Is it the fact that the water is not exposed to the air for gas exchange? An air stone or skimmer would help this wouldn't it?

what he said i thought that why i was encouraged to creat a live sand/CC bed --to help the cycle??? with a proper live bed the uneaten food and waste were converted to safe levels by the misalaneous(sp) creatures????

 

[robpsca]

if nitrites were harmless why would your test kit include nitrites on it and why would it have dangerous levels and stress levels on the test?

 

[amphibious]

ppm411
To clarify my statement about canister filters and CC substrate. It is a known fact that, in the Nitrogen cycle, Ammonia and Nitrite are converted by arobic (oxygen dependant) bacteria. Their final product is Nitrate. Nitrate will continue to build up to toxic levels unless removed by water changes (expensive) or some other means. In order to remove Nitrate utilizing a natural method, eg, conversion by bacteria, you need to provide an area of anarobic conditions (oxygen deficient) so that anarobic bacteria can thrieve and convert the Nitrate to Nitrogen gas. This can be done easily with a deep sand bed (DSB) and/or refugium. I prefer using both.
A canister filter will not provide the anarobic conditions needed and CC becomes a huge trap for un-eaten food and other debris to decay and further cause the Nitrate to build-up.
Unfortunately, a protien skimmer, while a very useful device, does not remove Nitrate.
Rich

 

[amphibious]

misfit
Some good points here. I, too, believe the tank has not cycled and disaster looms ahead if something is not done.
Too much, too fast has been the down fall of many marine creatures.
Rich

 

[coachklm]

Originally Posted by Amphibious
ppm411
A canister filter will not provide the anarobic conditions needed and CC becomes a huge trap for un-eaten food and other debris to decay and further cause the Nitrate to build-up.
Rich
but mixed with proper live elements within the CC the nitrates do not become a problem for some ...... this is a whole debate for CC and Sand.....dont think i'm questioning your experience i'm just stating that with proper maintenance and equipment CC is not always the first answer to a nitrate proplem..

 

[misfit]

i agree copletely, I dont loke to sound like doom and gloom but I fear for those fishes, in that kind of set up. The only thing is to work backwards and start right. This hobby requires ALOT of patience.

 

[misfit]

my last post was to Rich

 

[amphibious]

dottiekh
There are only a few options open to you because you've jumped into this way too far and too soon.
You need to find someone to house your fish for awhile. Cured live rock will still cause a spike in your Ammonia and consequentially a comeplete cycle. Because the rock is boxed up and shipped to you there will be a die-off of critters in the rock. That die-off will cause a spike when you introduce it to the tank. It won't be like getting un-cured rock but it will cuase a spike. However, it's your best chance of coming out of this favorably, IMHO.
Rich

 

[n_sarno]

I have a question about "Prime" to help w/ the amonia, nitrate and nitrite levels. Is it reef safe? Will it harm my corals at all?

 

[amphibious]

dottiekh
I tried to e-mail you and could not for some reason. Would you please e-mail me at amphibious@theculturedreef.com

 

[bang guy]

Originally Posted by Amphibious
dottiekh
There are only a few options open to you because you've jumped into this way too far and too soon.
You need to find someone to house your fish for awhile. Cured live rock will still cause a spike in your Ammonia and consequentially a comeplete cycle. Because the rock is boxed up and shipped to you there will be a die-off of critters in the rock. That die-off will cause a spike when you introduce it to the tank. It won't be like getting un-cured rock but it will cuase a spike. However, it's your best chance of coming out of this favorably, IMHO.
Rich
I agree 100% with Rich here. An ammonia level of 2.0 indicates that your bacteria population is very deficient. If you can take the fish back until you get your tank under control that's you best bet in my opinion. As Rich stated, adding more rock will probably make the problem worse before it gets better.
If you can't relocate your fish then large water changes will help a lot. Prime will also help.

 

[amphibious]

coachKLM
with proper maintenance and equipment CC is not always the first answer to a nitrate proplem..
Didn't mean to imply this at all. Only a contributing factor.
In my maintenance business I used cc with undergravel filters for years in the "old days" but, they reqiured monthly "vaccuming" with a power vac and Life Guard canister filters to catch the crude. But, the method worked for me. I had a competitor who wouldn't guarantee his livestock to his maintenance customers. I gave mine a 30 day gauarantee and never had to replace anything because I also quarantined my livestock. Needless to say, eventually I took over everyone of his customers.
Rich

 

[dottiekh]

Ok. I have done a water change, approx. 20%. I have added some thing that is supposed to help eliminate ammonia (ACE ammonia chloramine eliminator), I also am preparing purigen to go into my canister. I just did this about 30 minutes ago and I have already retested the water. My ammonia is down to 1, using the same test I used this morning. My nitrites are still hovering around .50 Will I see a more pronounced change in a few hours, or is this it?
My fish store will not house them for me, nor will they take them back. It is literally the only salt water fish store within a 60 or 70 mile radius. Even they are 30 minutes from me, so I'm a little out of luck there. When I did my water change, I cleaned my cc as well as I could, using the siphon thing.
I feel horrible. If I loose these fish, it will be completely on my head. I really appreciate everyone's help here. I'll test again in a few hours. Fingers crossed...

 

[misfit]

Fingers crossed but in the future I would not deal with that lfscause thats just awful to not help you out. Research a new one or buy off of here. Sounds like he just whats the sale.Remember there is no quick fix. Your putting some chemical to alivate the symptoms but you havent fixed the cause of the problem yet. Cleaning cc wont hurt

 

[bang guy]

Your next test will be telling. If Ammonia goes up your fish are in for a bumpy ride. If it stays the same, well 1.0 is still high but the Prime/ACE/Amquel will help (not cure). Water changes will help a lot. Hopefully Ammonia will start to drop soon and then you can start on setting up a better environment for your animals. If you can get a lot more waterflow in your system soon it will be very helpful.