Undecided voters?

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2782882
LOL, She is a little too perky for my taste but I like her record.
Note: not trying to start a fight
I can't stand the accent and being an ID creationist goes nowhere in my book regardless of what she's done. If I want anymore theocracy stuff, I'll move to Iran and married a veiled girl lol.

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2782610
perhaps I was unclear.... my issue is; I believe that simply because I CAN reproduce, does not mean i HAVE to. i am concerned that my right to CHOOSE may be put in jeopardy...my right to birth control, my right to an abortion, and our childrens' rights to ----ed & preventative education.
.....i would now like to make it UNEQUIVOCALLY CLEAR that I am NOT OPENING A DISCUSSION of this subject, I am just CLARIFYING for Silver that this is an issue in the current election that makes a difference in my choice of candidate.

ok I got it now thanks just the way you said it before I was like who is making her? lol but all better now thanks!

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2782886
Note: not trying to start a fight
I can't stand the accent and being an ID creationist goes nowhere in my book regardless of what she's done. If I want anymore theocracy stuff, I'll move to Iran and married a veiled girl lol.
I will play the A hole... I actually like her and wish it was her running for president. I saw her in a debate, the only one i actually watched o maybe 10 mins of, and everythign she said she seemed to dumb down a bit to reach out to a different type of crowd. made sooooo much more sense and i think she is the best one out of all of them haha

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by SilverDak
http:///forum/post/2782927
I will play the A hole... I actually like her and wish it was her running for president. I saw her in a debate, the only one i actually watched o maybe 10 mins of, and everythign she said she seemed to dumb down a bit to reach out to a different type of crowd. made sooooo much more sense and i think she is the best one out of all of them haha
You realize that both VPs were only allowed to address topics from a script right? I hate to say it, but that conniving geezer would have weaseled his way around her and stomped her had it been unscripted. Remember she only prepared for this starting a week before, he's been spouting this nonsense and convincing himself of the lies for decades. When you rehearse a script over and over, you do get pretty good at remembering your lines/arguments and add flair here and there to sound more convincing. I've done debates on crap that I only learned about hours before and won while sounding like I was a scholar on the subject. I'm pretty suave and sound like a professional in real life. I worked in sales man, it's all about presentation whether or not you actually know anything. Pick a few facts and blow them out of proportion and your customer will confide in your "expertise."
BTW, you're not an A hole for having a differing opinion even if it isn't one I share.

 

[acrylics]

Originally Posted by Mimzy
http:///forum/post/2782559
i dont know why other people are undecided, but i'll tell you why i am; b/c i can't decide which one is the lesser of the two evils.
do i want to give up my rights as a woman who doesn't want to be forced to reproduce?
or do i want to give up my rights as an american to defend myself by any means necessary if my person or property are attacked?
do i want to align myself with someone who quite possibly identifies himself with my own family's greatest enemies?
or do i want to align myself with a man who's right hand is an ignorant biggot?
Neither candidate shares my views on religion, neither candidate shares my views on gay rights, neither candidate shares my views on drugs, the penal code or health care.
I could go on and on and on.
I deeply dislike BOTH of the candidates. THAT is why I am undecided.
still confused?
I think many are of the same frame of mind as you, so take heart
It's painful to vote for someone that's theoretically going to represent you when they don't represent what you believe is right. My way of looking at these situations is damage control, who will cause the least amount of damage. Sad way of looking at it in many ways, but the practicality is self-evident IMO.

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by acrylics
http:///forum/post/2782938
I think many are of the same frame of mind as you, so take heart
It's painful to vote for someone that's theoretically going to represent you when they don't represent what you believe is right. My way of looking at these situations is damage control, who will cause the least amount of damage. Sad way of looking at it in many ways, but the practicality is self-evident IMO.

Agreed.... damage control is sadly how I vote at the polls too and my pocketbook. I don't come from a poor family and don't intend to become one so I vote against things that are "against" me and my wellbeing. I don't feel that because my family made good decisions that I or my family should have to do something because its "fair" to them. Do you ever see a falcon give a rabbit a shotgun to make things fair? no. Do you ever see a crocodile wave a flag to let wildebeasts know that he's about to attack? no. Life isn't fair, it's what you do about it that counts. I do understand and respect those that try to break free from what seems like the bindings of a "caste system," but I don't respect it if it came solely from people leveling the playing field through the misfortunes of their relative superiors.

 

[silverdak]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2782942
Agreed.... damage control is sadly how I vote at the polls too and my pocketbook. I don't come from a poor family and don't intend to become one so I vote against things that are "against" me and my wellbeing. I don't feel that because my family made good decisions that I or my family should have to do something because its "fair" to them. Do you ever see a falcon give a rabbit a shotgun to make things fair? no. Do you ever see a crocodile wave a flag to let wildebeasts know that he's about to attack? no. Life isn't fair, it's what you do about it that counts. I do understand and respect those that try to break free from what seems like the bindings of a "caste system," but I don't respect it if it came solely from people leveling the playing field through the misfortunes of their relative superiors.
I agree. I am right in the middle class, not lower or upper so from what i have seen we are getting the crap end of the stick anyways just for being the middle class lol

 

[rotarymagic]

Originally Posted by SilverDak
http:///forum/post/2782944
I agree. I am right in the middle class, not lower or upper so from what i have seen we are getting the crap end of the stick anyways just for being the middle class lol
I would consider myself there too (still riding my parents' money@22 how sad...), my parents don't make 7figures so I don't consider them upperclass nor do we cruise around in koenigseggs and that sort of thing.

 

[jeanheckle]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2782864
..And you're saying Clinton wasn't the cause of ANY blunders? Somalia?
I've got a feeling that you're one of those groupies that thinks Clinton was the bringer of all things good.
I needed to reread what I wrote because no I didn't say Clinton or Bush were the cause of any blunders, I said the individual vote does not count the electoral vote does, sorry you misunderstood,

 

[rylan1]

Forget about the personalities... and ask yourself these... if Palin is so qualified why is sne being restricted? And in her appearances other than the Convention... she has been less than presidential and showed a lack of knowledge on a big range of issues... McCain is a gambler... this pick shows his lack of judgement ... and that he may gamble your future on a hunch...
McCain policy is very similar to the policy of the last 8 years... are we better off? We have 4 major crisis' housing, Banking, Wars, and Fuel/Energy, which all have manifested during the last 8 years. Why would you want to put someone back in with similar policies... someone with no answers to how we are going to fix these problems... All I hear are attacks on the other candidate... and talking about what Obama is going to do...
What about what McCain is going to do... This comes from a person who suspended his campaign and failed to accomplish what he said he was going to do... ask yourself this ... Why can't McCain do two things at once? We have 4 major issues that face America... Do you want a candidate that will suspend 3 major issues, to concentrate on one? McCain lacks focus and the temperment to handle the current dominant issues.
Lastly has done nothing to in his campaign to address the issues of the middle and lower class.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by SilverDak
http:///forum/post/2782944
I agree. I am right in the middle class, not lower or upper so from what i have seen we are getting the crap end of the stick anyways just for being the middle class lol
If you are middle class you will benefit under an Obama Admin... his tax breaks are centered around you... the difference in policies are:
1. McCain believes economy trickles from the top down... benefit business and the rich... it will flow down hill and raise the economy.
2 Obama believes that when middle class does well... prosperity trickles up..that a middle class with buying power will do more for the economy than what the wealthy are able to offer.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rotarymagic
http:///forum/post/2782886
Note: not trying to start a fight
I can't stand the accent and being an ID creationist goes nowhere in my book regardless of what she's done. If I want anymore theocracy stuff, I'll move to Iran and married a veiled girl lol.
Yeah but that pesky first amendment thing would prevent her from imposing any of that even if she wanted to. She has stated that she believes creationism should be taught along side evolution but in her words "Creationism wouldn't have to be part of the curriculum" So it would be a topic for discussion if it was brought up in class. Seems reasonable to me.

 

[jdl]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2783094
McCain policy is very similar to the policy of the last 8 years... are we better off? We have 4 major crisis' housing, Banking, Wars, and Fuel/Energy, which all have manifested during the last 8 years. Why would you want to put someone back in with similar policies... someone with no answers to how we are going to fix these problems... All I hear are attacks on the other candidate... and talking about what Obama is going to do...
Better off then what?
housing... mr clintons fault
banking....mr clintons fault
wars... mr clintons fault
fuel/energy .... congress fault
You can blame President bush all you want. You can act like life was so much better before, but it is congress and the previous administration to blame. The next president isnt going to fix anything. You should want McCain to win, because if Obama does, you are going to be very disappointed. If mcCain wins, you can continue to point the finger at someone.
nothing will change until congress changes. And as you saw them adding another 100+ trillion on the bailout for pork barrel spending, congress will never change.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by SilverDak
http:///forum/post/2782944
I agree. I am right in the middle class, not lower or upper so from what i have seen we are getting the crap end of the stick anyways just for being the middle class lol
For as long as I can remember starting with Carter presidential candidates have all been long on promise and short on performance when it comes to looking after the middle class.
Right now I think the tax collections are fairly distributed. As far as I am concerned the best thing the government could do with taxes is to simplify them for individuals and corporations. It's amazing what is spent to try to comply with a tax code that is only complicated because that is the only way the politicians can throw in the bribes to whatever special interests they get support from.

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2783101
If you are middle class you will benefit under an Obama Admin... his tax breaks are centered around you... the difference in policies are:
1. McCain believes economy trickles from the top down... benefit business and the rich... it will flow down hill and raise the economy.
2 Obama believes that when middle class does well... prosperity trickles up..that a middle class with buying power will do more for the economy than what the wealthy are able to offer.
Tax cuts don't do you a heck of a lot of good if you got laid off because your employer had to cut back to make ends meet when their taxes were raised.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2783130
Tax cuts don't do you a heck of a lot of good if you got laid off because your employer had to cut back to make ends meet when their taxes were raised.
has this philosophy worked?
... if your employer is a small business owner... they will not have to pay higher taxes if they make less than $250K... and with that said... takes won't be any higher than they were in Reagan years.. which republicans say were good years...

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2783123
For as long as I can remember starting with Carter presidential candidates have all been long on promise and short on performance when it comes to looking after the middle class.
Right now I think the tax collections are fairly distributed. As far as I am concerned the best thing the government could do with taxes is to simplify them for individuals and corporations. It's amazing what is spent to try to comply with a tax code that is only complicated because that is the only way the politicians can throw in the bribes to whatever special interests they get support from.
It is amazing what loopholes people use to try to avoid taxes

 

[reefraff]

Originally Posted by Rylan1
http:///forum/post/2783162
It is amazing what loopholes people use to try to avoid taxes
WHats really amazing is all those loopholes were intentionally placed there.

 

[rylan1]

Originally Posted by reefraff
http:///forum/post/2783169
WHats really amazing is all those loopholes were intentionally placed there.
you are probably right for the most part...
which is why they need to be closed... as one campaign has said.

 

[sigmachris]

Undecided today is easy...I am a white male, mid 30s, married, children, middle class. No one party holds all of my beliefs.
Pro choice - dems
Pro gay rights - dems
Pro guns - reps
Pro drilling - reps
Less taxes and smaller government - reps
No universal health care - reps
Those are just a few of the issues where I am split between the two parties. So I am left to choose between the lesser of two evils.
As a side note, it was mentioned above if pro choice was reversed how would someone like to raise a child that resulted in a ----? That wouldn't happen...to my knowledge if abortion was outlawed there would still be provisions to allow for an abortion if the pregnancy occured during a r-ape, in-cest, or it endangered the life of the mother.