US Aid to Israel or Not?

beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Its a moot discussion at this point, but in reality there is a growing number of Americans who oppose continued financial aide to Israel (or anyone else really). 3+ billion went to Israel last year, this year, and will be going to Israel for the next 10 years as well.
Personally, I think the US should not send any aide to anyone. Newsflash! We don't have the money. I think Obama just sent 70 billion to Israel (perhaps to buy the Jewish vote in this country).
I've been around long enough to know that the Israel-Palestine issue never, ever gets resolved. And never will.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
When we do decide to stop sending money around the world Israel should be last on the list but I agree. It's just that there are a lot of countries that will hate us and vote against us in the UN for free so we should stop paying them first.
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by reefraff http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501439
When we do decide to stop sending money around the world Israel should be last on the list but I agree. It's just that there are a lot of countries that will hate us and vote against us in the UN for free so we should stop paying them first.

No matter if an Israel supporter or not, our support of Israel has resulted in us acquiring a lot of enemies. Why can't Israel support their own military at this point? Shoot, we can't even argue its for the oil, since we basically let everyone else dip into Iraq's oil while we are the one's who shed the blood, sweat, and tears.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501453

No matter if an Israel supporter or not, our support of Israel has resulted in us acquiring a lot of enemies. Why can't Israel support their own military at this point? Shoot, we can't even argue its for the oil, since we basically let everyone else dip into Iraq's oil while we are the one's who shed the blood, sweat, and tears.
Just the technology Israel has been allowed to "steal" from us is worth far more than the cash we give them. But if we are giving money to anyone I'd put them high on the list. They need an obvious military advantage. If not and multiple countries attempt to attack them again there is no doubt Israel will use nukes and that does nobody any good.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501498
Hmm, almost like this country is run by a small and powerful group of people with family and financial ties to....
Sometimes I wish people would vote for someone like Christie for President. I think he's even more unpresidential acting than stone head was during his re election campaign but I think he would tell the powers that be to eat a booger and do what he thinks is right. He's not all that conservative but he does seem to be good at applying common sense to address problems. I would just shudder to think what his foreign policy skills would be like LOL!
 
theclemsonkid

theclemsonkid

Member
I think the general public has no idea who really calls the shots in this country. If you think Barack Obama or Mitt Romney would be the ones calling the shots, then you have no idea how the world really works. There are a very small group of people with control of most of the money in this country, and they get to shape policy however they see fit. If you look at Israel, and on the surface it seems like we should pull some of our support, but we don't... why do you think that is? And this isn't a rub on the Jewish religion, they just happen to be very rich, and very pro-Israel, so the rest of us get stuck with that foreign policy whether we want it or not.
Even if someone like Christie were to be elected, he wouldn't be able to change a thing unfortunately. Although it would be great for comical theater!
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
I think the general public has no idea who really calls the shots in this country.  If you think Barack Obama or Mitt Romney would be the ones calling the shots, then you have no idea how the world really works.  There are a very small group of people with control of most of the money in this country, and they get to shape policy however they see fit.  If you look at Israel, and on the surface it seems like we should pull some of our support, but we don't... why do you think that is?  And this isn't a rub on the Jewish religion, they just happen to be very rich, and very pro-Israel, so the rest of us get stuck with that foreign policy whether we want it or not. 
Even if someone like Christie were to be elected, he wouldn't be able to change a thing unfortunately.  Although it would be great for comical theater!
 
Did you vote?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheClemsonKid http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501509
I think the general public has no idea who really calls the shots in this country. If you think Barack Obama or Mitt Romney would be the ones calling the shots, then you have no idea how the world really works. There are a very small group of people with control of most of the money in this country, and they get to shape policy however they see fit. If you look at Israel, and on the surface it seems like we should pull some of our support, but we don't... why do you think that is? And this isn't a rub on the Jewish religion, they just happen to be very rich, and very pro-Israel, so the rest of us get stuck with that foreign policy whether we want it or not.
Even if someone like Christie were to be elected, he wouldn't be able to change a thing unfortunately. Although it would be great for comical theater!

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy. Pres. Woodrow Wilson.
 
reefraff

reefraff

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501528

The government, which was designed for the people, has got into the hands of bosses and their employers, the special interests. An invisible empire has been set up above the forms of democracy. Pres. Woodrow Wilson.
That's pretty dam funny coming from the clown who created the federal reserve system, a private group that cannot be audited LOL!
 
mantisman51

mantisman51

Active Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501453

No matter if an Israel supporter or not, our support of Israel has resulted in us acquiring a lot of enemies. Why can't Israel support their own military at this point? Shoot, we can't even argue its for the oil, since we basically let everyone else dip into Iraq's oil while we are the one's who shed the blood, sweat, and tears.
Not to argue the point, but I can prove that is not true-at least universally so. In 1983 we sent Marines to Beirut at the request of the Arab League so, as they claimed, Israel would not have an excuse to occupy and take over Lebanon. Our Marines were killed by the first known suicide bombing against us for no other reason than Muslims see us as a Christian nation and an impediment to the new Caliphate that 95% of Muslims believe in. Matter of fact, Al Qaeda leaders refer to us as the Great Stan and Israel as merely the Little Satan. There is not 1 single Muslim in the world who would say, "If the U.S. would quit supporting Israel I wouldn't hate them". Even though liberals and the ACLU scream it isn't so, our strongly Judeo-Christian national history and national strength makes us a target of Wahibis and Jihadists, even if there was no Israel. If anyone thinks supporting Britain, Australia and Russia before and during WWII was a good idea, they have no moral or intellectual strength of argument against our support of Israel. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East and fighting the same war against radical Islam as we are. If we turned our back on them, it would be to turn our back on everything we have stood for, for 200+ years.
 
darthtang aw

darthtang aw

Active Member
I think the general public has no idea who really calls the shots in this country.  If you think Barack Obama or Mitt Romney would be the ones calling the shots, then you have no idea how the world really works.  There are a very small group of people with control of most of the money in this country, and they get to shape policy however they see fit.  If you look at Israel, and on the surface it seems like we should pull some of our support, but we don't... why do you think that is?  And this isn't a rub on the Jewish religion, they just happen to be very rich, and very pro-Israel, so the rest of us get stuck with that foreign policy whether we want it or not. 
Even if someone like Christie were to be elected, he wouldn't be able to change a thing unfortunately.  Although it would be great for comical theater!
 
Did you vote?
Sure did.  I can't wait to see where you are going to go with this!
 
If you honestly believe in a secret society of rich people running everything....then why vote?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisman51 http:///t/393526/us-aid-to-israel-or-not#post_3501539
If anyone thinks supporting Britain, Australia and Russia before and during WWII was a good idea, they have no moral or intellectual strength of argument against our support of Israel. Israel is the only true democracy in the Middle East and fighting the same war against radical Islam as we are. If we turned our back on them, it would be to turn our back on everything we have stood for, for 200+ years.
Mantis, I'm not suggesting that we turn our back on Israel, but that we stop giving away our military technology and stop giving them (and anyone else) our taxpayer money. Israel is the number 1 recipient of aid from the USA and has been for a very long time. Great Britain, Australia and Russia don't get aid from the USA.
Also, since when does the USA stand for fighting for democracies in other countries? That is a cold war concept that the US is supposed to spread democracy. We went into WWII because Japan dropped bombs on us. Not sure we would have gotten involved otherwise. Before WWII we had a very strong isolationist attitude, and there is constitutional basis for that as well. Now, we are wholly internationalist control freaks with a gargantuan government and a long arm with a fist full of dollars to support that.
 
stdreb27

stdreb27

Active Member
I know this isn't why we support Israel. But I'd support em, for the simple reason that it really the only form of self government in the area... Who the hell cares of a buncha thug dictators hate us?
 
beth

beth

Administrator
Staff member
Why not adopt survival of the fittest and let countries make it on their own? The guys who post in these type topics are highly critical of US aid to our own people (welfare, food stamps, HUD, etc, yet its ok to spend billions on other countries?
 
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