US Navy Directive 16134

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Darthtang AW
There are exception and with his money he has bought power, to keep that power he has created a terrorist organization....power corrupts....
Agreed, and I generally agree with your statements about poverty and terrorism.
Al Qaeda is a different beast, however. It's fueled more on a hatred towards the west over anything else in my opinion. Look at the 19 that attacked on 9-11. They lived over here for over a year. They lived "normal" lives, yet still got on those planes.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Al Qaeda is a different beast, however. It's fueled more on a hatred towards the west over anything else in my opinion. Look at the 19 that attacked on 9-11. They lived over here for over a year. They lived "normal" lives, yet still got on those planes.

True, I will conceed this, however they came to this "normal" life not with the reasoning to better themselves or to seek a "better" life, but to commit a terrorist act first and foremost. I liken it to an undercover agent that goes deep into the drug world and lives that lifestyle to further a goal their perception and upbringing has shown them as right.
The terrorists weren't shown a better way in their homeland, they only saw what our people have and how lived and I believe that further fueled their hatred because their people can not live the with the same benefits.
VENI, while India may be dominantly hindu they have a huge Muslim following their. Not to mention European Muslims are the fastest growing minority group in europe to date...Yet we aren't in force in Europe (because these countries provide the rights and freedoms of that which I spoke offering a different way).
Combatting terrorism isn't as simple as reducing it to purely a religious holy war, it is a more complex beast.

 

[1journeyman]

Ya, but Darth, look at the riots, hate speech, and mayhem radical islamists are causing in Europe. France and England for instance.
I think it's a combination... but I don't think we can dismiss the role radical islam and evil mullah's are playing in this.

 

[darthtang aw]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Ya, but Darth, look at the riots, hate speech, and mayhem radical islamists are causing in Europe. France and England for instance.
I think it's a combination... but I don't think we can dismiss the role radical islam and evil mullah's are playing in this.

Most of those riots and hate speech were a direct result to some laws passed recently and not an over all outcry against western living. But this is my opinion and I have no factual basis for this.
I will grant it is a combination. The mullahs and Terrorists with power (shieks/bin laden types) promote it as a religious war and use religion to fuel the fiore, while the average terrorists sees it as a way to release their frustrations. So it is a combination of both. However I feel we do far better not stating it as a religious war since very few actually view it as such.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Veni Vidi Vici
We aren't talking about Street Gangs if we were id give some credit to those statements.Journeyman made a great point about Bin Laden ,cant argue with that statement.
And as far as India is concerned i don't get what you are trying to say with that statement.They are predominantly Hindu not Muslim,
Bin Laden is a different story. He had a lot of money, and lived in the US for a while within the western culture. But, he's not strapping a bomb to himself. He's leading terrorists for the power and fame.

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Bin Laden was filthy rich....
Bin laden is one of many, do you think all of the insurents in Iraq come from such priveledged backgrounds? In every terrorist movement there have always been those of privledge who have joined or played a major role in it. This does not change the fact that terrorism is a product of economics. Why do you think they hate the US so much? It's not because we are a predominatly Christain nation, it's because we consume the majority of the worlds resources and have mass wealth and a lot of these people have little or nothing and nothing to lose. If it was purely because we are Christains then why aren't they attacking other christain nations? There are many factors involved in terrorism but it always boils down to economics as the root cause.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Bin laden is one of many, do you think all of the insurents in Iraq come from such priveledged backgrounds? In every terrorist movement there have always been those of privledge who have joined or played a major role in it. This does not change the fact that terrorism is a product of economics. Why do you think they hate the US so much? It's not because we are a predominatly Christain nation, it's because we consume the majority of the worlds resources and have mass wealth and a lot of these people have little or nothing and nothing to lose. If it was purely because we are Christains then why aren't they attacking other christain nations? There are many factors involved in terrorism but it always boils down to economics as the root cause.
Jmick, this assumes those poor backward terrorists are somehow educated enough to know what we are consuming.
They wage war against Israel too..

 

[jmick]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
Jmick, this assumes those poor backward terrorists are somehow educated enough to know what we are consuming.
They wage war against Israel too..
Of course they do, as long as people have places to congregate and meet they will discuss these things and as they complain about their lives they will see us on the other end of the spectrum and hate us. You can be poor and still have access to information. Did I allude somewhere that these people are backwards?
Israel also proves my point...care to point out a huge gap between Israel and the surrounding region?

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Bin laden is one of many, do you think all of the insurents in Iraq come from such priveledged backgrounds? In every terrorist movement there have always been those of privledge who have joined or played a major role in it. This does not change the fact that terrorism is a product of economics. Why do you think they hate the US so much? It's not because we are a predominatly Christain nation, it's because we consume the majority of the worlds resources and have mass wealth and a lot of these people have little or nothing and nothing to lose. If it was purely because we are Christains then why aren't they attacking other christain nations? There are many factors involved in terrorism but it always boils down to economics as the root cause.
Economics is part of it, but it's also psychological as well (best word I could think of). Many of these terrorists who go out on these suicide missions are being brainwashed since they were children. It's similar to racism; racism isn't something you are born with. If you grow up hearing your parents and those around you telling you how "terrible" African Americans are, you're most likely going to grow up as a racist. Many southerners did grow up with these thoughts, and that's how hate crimes start.
However, there's a difference. Terrorists are brainwashed into thinking that if they kill as many people as they can, and themselves in the process, they'll be guaranteed a spot in heaven.
Economics isn't all of it, although it's definitely a large factor. Poverty brings jealousy, which if coupled with promises of salvation, can lead to acts of terrorism. Poverty doesn't always lead to this, though.

 

[darknes]

Originally Posted by Jmick
Israel also proves my point...care to point out a huge gap between Israel and the surrounding region?
Israel is a much richer nation than those around them.

Israel actually provides electricity to power hospitals and many other buildings for those around them. I remember reading that a few years ago, they cut off supplies to the Palestinians when Hamas took control, but still provided their hospitals power and other supplies. It takes a lot of nerve to provide essential supplies to those people who are bombing your civilians and threatening to wipe you off the map.

 

[veni vidi vici]

I have never heard a terrorist say "I do this in the name of the all mighty Buck" but i do hear every time a terrorist claims responsibility for something its always in the name of Allah.
To say this war isn't based on Religion would be denying the fact that this war is thousands of years old.I would agree power is a motivating factor,but not economics.

 

[jovial]

It's based on religion for the terroist trying to kill us. It seems like every week they are calling for another jihad. Don't know why more muslim's aren't condemning this. Those who do this in the name of allah bring discredit to the islamic faith.

 

[agent-x]

Originally Posted by Jovial
Don't know why more muslim's aren't condemning this. Those who do this in the name of allah bring discredit to the islamic faith.
Lots of them are, but some Americans are too busy calling them or refering to them as terrorists to listen. Lots of Americans, in the "backwoods" of our country have never met a Muslim and if they did they'd probably be too busy linching them to listen. I work in an office with several people from the middle east nations and not one of them thinks or acts the way a lot of people seem to think they do. Most of them are scared of what will happen to them if they get lost in the wrong area, even if they were doing nothing wrong.
They do realize that these people make it harder for them because they share the same faith. But we cannot look at them as terrorist just because of their religion. Would you like it if every non christian looked at all christians as terrorists? No, we wouldn't like that and wouldn't want to be classified that way. But the truth of the matter is that Christians have commited terrorists acts in the name of god (blowing up abortion clinics). I bet or would like to think that 99% of Christians were ashamed to call those people Christians.

 

[1journeyman]

Originally Posted by AGENT-X
Lots of them are, but a lot of Americans are to busy calling them or refering to them as terrorists to listen. Lots of Americans, in the "backwoods" of our country have never met a Muslim and if they did they'd probably be too busy linching them to listen. I work in an office with several people from the middle east nations and not one of them thinks or acts the way a lot of people seem to think they do. Most of them are scared of what will happen to them if they get lost in the wrong area, even if they were doing nothing wrong.
They do realize that these people make it harder for them because they share the same faith. But we cannot look at them as terrorist just because of their religion. Would you like it if every non christian looked at all christians as terrorists? No, we wouldn't like that and wouldn't want to be classified that way. But the truth of the matter is that Christians have commited terrorists acts in the name of god (blowing up abortion clinics). I bet or would like to think that 99% of Christians were ashamed to call those people Christians.
When an abortion clinic is bombed every Christian leader and organization goes on a media blitz condeming it. That has not been the case with Islam. In fact, inevitably, Islamic leaders say something to the effect of "We're sorry, but it's Israel's fault". While this is not every muslim's fault, they need to be more vocal and hold their leader's more acountable.
As far as violence against muslims is concerned, there have been very very few. Saying they are afraid of being lynched in the backwoods and fear getting lost in the wrong neighborhood is a stretch. Statistically they are no more in danger in the USA then any of the rest fo us. Heck, I'm afraid of getting lost in some neighborhoods...

 

[agent-x]

Originally Posted by 1journeyman
When an abortion clinic is bombed every Christian leader and organization goes on a media blitz condeming it. That has not been the case with Islam. In fact, inevitably, Islamic leaders say something to the effect of "We're sorry, but it's Israel's fault". While this is not every muslim's fault, they need to be more vocal and hold their leader's more acountable.
As far as violence against muslims is concerned, there have been very very few. Saying they are afraid of being lynched in the backwoods and fear getting lost in the wrong neighborhood is a stretch. Statistically they are no more in danger in the USA then any of the rest fo us. Heck, I'm afraid of getting lost in some neighborhoods...
I was making a general statement about how just because some people are bad not all of them are. I think you read into it more than I intended. But I'm sure that in the Muslim faith their leaders were condeming it, not all but I'm sure most. We probably just don't notice it here because of the numbers. There are far more Christian leaders here than Muslim, so we tend to hear them more. I agree that they could be more vocal about it, but on the other hand some people could be more open minded about it too.
I have to disagree with the second part. I would venture to say they are in more danger than the rest of us. But I do agree with you there are many places that I too would not want to get lost in. But there are some places that they are in more danger than others. For instance, a guy I work with had to make a business trip to Arkansas. While there he stoped at a local dinner for something to eat and the man behind the counter asked him his last name. My friend replies "Martinez, why". The man said "oh, well I though we were going to have a problem, I thought you were one of them terrorist". Now neither of us know what that man meant by problem, but I'd bet it's safe to say that an "American" wouldn't have been asked that.

 

[agent-x]

I bet we'd be pissed if we saw a shirt or sign like this.
"Christian Religious Services Will Be Held at the Firing Range at 0800 Daily."
Yeah, maybe they've done stuff that they shouldn't have done to Americans, but does it reall warrant this kind of stuff?
"Islamic Religious Services Will Be Held at the Firing Range at 0800 Daily."
I think not. We are a little old for the "they did it first" defense.

 

[jerthunter]

Concerning the comments that religions should condem terroristic acts commited in their names, I agree that would be nice, for EVERY religion.
Although it would be even nicer if religions would stop telling children which God to believe in and informing them that if they please their God that they will be rewarded.

 

[jovial]

My religion dosen't do this.

 

[jerthunter]

Originally Posted by Jovial
My religion dosen't do this.
That is good. I wish the same could be said for all religions.

 

[jovial]

You should join us.